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HP is doing the right thing -- Personal Opinion
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Old 08/05/2012, 01:20 PM   #1 (permalink)
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I just posted this in response to the most recent article How do you feel about HP not supporting older devices in Open webOS? | webOS Nation, and I felt the need to share it further.

You know what: I'm cool with it. Why? Because I can comprehend what it takes to support something, and I understand that if they were to support those legacy devices, undoubtedly MAJOR sacrifices would have to be made where it really matters: real webOS.

The truth that it doesn't support legacy devices is not a fault to the current coders -- that's an original design flaw the original webOS failed to acknowledge.

Think about Windows: it supports all hardware from Windows 95 all the way through Windows 7.. you can upgrade from one version to the next without any problems. When webOS was first made, it never accounted for the various processors and other hardware it would eventually run on. In summary, it was never designed with future hardware in mind.

All I can hope is that this new open source route will account for this, and all future versions of webOS will have support for whatever legacy hardware it runs on. This will be difficult because of the current non standardized ARM processor market, but it will be no more difficult than it is for Google, Microsoft, or Apple.

If done correctly, this should be the last time we have to face this problem.

TL;DR: HP is doing the right thing. We don't want them to (literally) waste time supporting hardware that barely made it into the hands of anyone. We all want a better webOS. If you want a better webOS, this is the correct decision.






EDIT:

My original intent for this thread was to share my positive thoughts and feelings with hopes that others would share the same positive thoughts and feelings I have.

Unfortunately, like a lot of threads here, it seems this thread has recently taken a turn for the worse. I'm afraid if it's not already another "bash HP" thread, it will be there soon.

This was not my goal.

WebOS fans have two choices: they can either hate the past, or they can hope for the future. Personally, I choose to hope for the future. Whether it makes any sense, whether it's right or wrong, I choose to see the positive in life, because that's who I am. It's not that I don't want to hear the negative, it's that I'd rather spend time talking about positive things.

This thread is about me sharing my hope for the future with others who also hope for the future.

If you want to live in the past, there are plenty other threads you can be negative with each other.
Please take these unappreciative thoughts to any one of those threads.


I don't mean to offend anyone by saying this, but I'd really like a cool place to share feelings in, and I don't want this thread to veer in the direction it's heading.

Thank you.
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Old 08/05/2012, 02:54 PM   #2 (permalink)
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You lost me at "HP" and the "right thing"

They don't go together
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Old 08/05/2012, 03:43 PM   #3 (permalink)
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The problem is the lack of communication, when webOS was supported and now, before Leo and after with Meg, ok we are going to open source, we might release or produce webOS tablets, we are in a 4 to 5 year commitment... All along, they could have said...

Leo canned it, we are putting webOS on the shelf, Open webOS will be for some up coming hardware or maybe some group might port it to something...

But to not say anything one way or the other, is poor marketing of a product...

We will wait and see in the coming months...
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Old 08/05/2012, 07:54 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Well then I really hope they launch hardware to go with it, without that IMO, this investment they are making will be all for naught.
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Old 08/05/2012, 07:54 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Well, while you have formulated your opinion on this matter about these recent news of dropping support of legacy devices. I have to object to the fact that you mentioned of HP doing something right which to me its pretty laughable to this point in time. HP haven't done anything right at all, its more of what many things they have been doing wrong and the fatal mistakes they continue to do. I"m sorry OP, but could you name one thing that HP has done right, so far? I'm sorry....I'm hearing silence and the sounds of crickets there...

To fxspec06: I have respect for the forums members, and this is not any direct attack towards you or your opinions. I'm just simply stating my own little known facts


1) Drop support for old(first gen)WebOS devices that didn't v2.0, many claimed(on that time) that HP was doing things right to focus on the future than to waste time on the past. Well, let's fast forward in 2012, and see what focus on the future we have seen for WebOS
2) Then we see those stupid idiots of HP cancelling everything related to WebOS.
3) Promise such a big thing for Open Source of WebOS, to then **** on the community to announce that devices that are not one year old will be dropped entirely of support.

It's a sad thing for many to hear this kind of news, I'm really unhappy about them. I was so mad on hearing this words from HP, that even dropped everything that I was planning to make apps on WebOS with the SDK program. I was learning coding online, feeding myself with hope that with the news of Open WebOS it could somehow bring life back to this dying platform. Well, it shows how pathetic it could be to believe in things specially from a company like HP.

Lots of people say HOPE, sorry to disappoint but that word to me its getting a bit too thin. Too many times in the past we were promise so much only to be met with more disappointments from HP. So, forgive me for not being so optimistic about this whole ordeal. It's shame to say, but the CM9 on my HP TouchPad seems to have more future with the android install than on how HP is treating this whole Open Source project of WebOS.
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Old 08/05/2012, 07:59 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by MDsmartphone View Post
You lost me at "HP" and the "right thing"

They don't go together
HP has a very long very proven reputation in the PC and printer market. They have many business partners and distribute across at least 5 continents if I'm not mistaken
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Old 08/05/2012, 08:05 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by PalmPixi_User23 View Post
I"m sorry OP, but could you name one thing that HP has done right, so far?
Disregarding the previous (and very long) history of HP, I'll assume you meant to ask what they've done right, so far, since their acquisition of Palm. With this in mind, here's my very brief and incomplete list of things they've done right:

* Firing of Leo Apotheker
* Hiring of ex eBay CEO Meg Whitman
* Reconsideration of every decision Leo Apotheker ever made
* Roadmap
* Sticking to the roadmap
* Hiring of more webOS developers
* Hiring of more Enyo developers
* Enyo
* Developer support (they treat us better than you think)
* Hackathon
* Hint at new webOS devices
* Enyo demonstrations worldwide
* Heavy promotion of Enyo
* Continuation of webOS Meetups

..and the list goes on.
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Old 08/05/2012, 08:07 PM   #8 (permalink)
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I'd really appreciate it if everyone focused on the present and not the recent past. There's a far bigger picture than just Leo Apotheker. One man who ruled for less than a year does not define an entire company. There's a lot of great people who live happy lives who work at HP, at any company for that matter.
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Old 08/05/2012, 08:14 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fxspec06 View Post
Disregarding the previous (and very long) history of HP, I'll assume you meant to ask what they've done right, so far, since their acquisition of Palm. With this in mind, here's my very brief and incomplete list of things they've done right:

* Firing of Leo Apotheker
* Hiring of ex eBay CEO Meg Whitman
* Reconsideration of every decision Leo Apotheker ever made
* Roadmap
* Sticking to the roadmap
* Hiring of more webOS developers
* Hiring of more Enyo developers
* Enyo
* Developer support (they treat us better than you think)
* Hackathon
* Hint at new webOS devices
* Enyo demonstrations worldwide
* Heavy promotion of Enyo
* Continuation of webOS Meetups

..and the list goes on.
The firing of Leo should not be on the list.....it doesn't count

I think that the rest of whatever you mentioned on the list, it could be attributed to the team of WebOS instead of HP. Because HP's brain is not that capable of doing that....so again I will say its more of WebOS team effort than HP.
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Old 08/05/2012, 08:22 PM   #10 (permalink)
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That's old news. Times are changing. The world is going mobile. Microsoft is releasing their own hardware. Apple and Google dominate the mobile space. Palm is dead. Nokia and RIM are dying a slow death. HP is a remnant of the old times...I think they too will start spiraling downwards unless they can find some new product or service that consumers or enterprise need. I've personally never been a fan of HP products before. I've always used palm or Samsung or Motorola mobile phones, Epson or canon printers, and dell computers and laptops and Texas instruments calculators. The only reason I became optimistic about HP was when I thought they would save palm/ webOS...I was considering getting a new hp laptop and printer along with the pre 3. After their stupid decision, in my opinion, or better yet, decision without considering its consequences, of dropping support for all webOS hardware and publicly mentioning they were going to spin off their personal system group and then reversing that decision...sorry HP has done nothing right in a while.

Sure this is my biased opinion coming from a webOS phanboy, but obviously their stock has been taking a hit and their credit has been taking a hit as well. Many articles have commented on how HP is in trouble.

I agree.
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Old 08/05/2012, 08:23 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by PalmPixi_User23 View Post
The firing of Leo should not be on the list.....it doesn't count

I think that the rest of whatever you mentioned on the list, it could be attributed to the team of WebOS instead of HP. Because HP's brain is not that capable of doing that....so again I will say its more of WebOS team effort than HP.
Your idea of corporations is askewed. A corporation cannot think. A corporation exists, people think. HP's is made from every individual who works at HP. When you say HP's brain is not capable of doing that, you're assuming that any one individual has complete control over HP, which is not true. HP is made of people, and if the people who work at HP care about what they are doing, then who are you to pass judgement on the decisions they make?

From what I see, HP is doing what they should be doing: recouping from a bad CEO, stepping away from quick thinking, reassessing the damage done, cooperating with investors, and developing a new roadmap for the future. This is the most important thing for HP to do right now. webOS is not going to be cancelled. The people working on it care very much about it, and the company representing them stands by them. I think we've actually seen a lot of that lately, but who am I to speak.

Point is, the people working on it want to be working on it, the people who want to be working on it are working on it, and anyone who wants to work on it is being given the chance to do it. I don't think HP would turn down an offer from any developer who wanted to work on it. Just because you can't see something in front of you, doesn't mean it is what you think it is. There's more than meets the eye
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Old 08/05/2012, 08:28 PM   #12 (permalink)
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HP is a remnant of the old times...
Really?

HP reclaims top spot in PC sales, market as a whole climbs 21 percent -- Engadget

What you all forget is HP is not dependent on webOS to survive. HP has a stronghold on the PC market. They are the world leader in PC sales. They're not going anywhere.

Think about that.
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Old 08/05/2012, 09:54 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Thanks for posting on this. Having no involvement with HP, I can just look at what is out there for the public to see. Evidence seems to indicate that HP will be coming out with a Windows RT device in the near futre. Despite that I have not seen any attempt to involve the developer community in making apps for these devices specifically. What I do see is HP pushing app development that would allow for designing programs across platforms. There are I guess varying reasons as to why they migh do that but the most likely seems to be that they intend on having devices on differing platforms. Otherwise I can't say the efforts to promote cross paltform development are relevant to a company that is only using Windows in their tablets.

Derek on a recent post somewhat cryptically stated that no device announcements should be expcted for another month. If there are hints of devices coming as this thread indicates then I think there is reason for hope. There has to be some reason to keep developers around aside from a love for webOS. All of this work on Enyo does not make a lot of sense unless there is some device planned that would directly utilize it.
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Old 08/05/2012, 10:03 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by fxspec06 View Post
I just posted this in response to the most recent article How do you feel about HP not supporting older devices in Open webOS? | webOS Nation, and I felt the need to share it further.

You know what: I'm cool with it. Why? Because I can comprehend what it takes to support something, and I understand that if they were to support those legacy devices, undoubtedly MAJOR sacrifices would have to be made where it really matters: real webOS.

The truth that it doesn't support legacy devices is not a fault to the current coders -- that's an original design flaw the original webOS failed to acknowledge.

Think about Windows: it supports all hardware from Windows 95 all the way through Windows 7.. you can upgrade from one version to the next without any problems. When webOS was first made, it never accounted for the various processors and other hardware it would eventually run on. In summary, it was never designed with future hardware in mind.

All I can hope is that this new open source route will account for this, and all future versions of webOS will have support for whatever legacy hardware it runs on. This will be difficult because of the current non standardized ARM processor market, but it will be no more difficult than it is for Google, Microsoft, or Apple.

If done correctly, this should be the last time we have to face this problem.

TL;DR: HP is doing the right thing. We don't want them to (literally) waste time supporting hardware that barely made it into the hands of anyone. We all want a better webOS. If you want a better webOS, this is the correct decision.
I totally agree. The future is in front of you. Open webOS on future higher specced phones and tablets is where it's at.
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Old 08/05/2012, 10:59 PM   #15 (permalink)
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In light of this news, if there isn't any new hardware waiting in the wings, then the entire Open webOS project will crumble.

Mobile device software is meaningless without a mobile device to run it on.

I think I'm giving up on any hope of updates for my Pre3. It's too bad. But I suppose I'll keep using it anyway.


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Old 08/05/2012, 11:45 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Really?

HP reclaims top spot in PC sales, market as a whole climbs 21 percent -- Engadget

What you all forget is HP is not dependent on webOS to survive. HP has a stronghold on the PC market. They are the world leader in PC sales. They're not going anywhere.

Think about that.
this is a short term outcome.
even RIM two years ago was near the top of the smartphone market but look how quickly they have fallen without anything new substantial to offer to the market.
look at HTC.
Nokia.
Yahoo.
Kodak.
list goes on and on.
what exactly will HP be selling to a consumer such as me, for example? snapfish photos? i'd purchase a dell or microsoft made surface tablet before I touch anything HP makes in an instant. HP printer? canon's printers are much better, for me.

Unless HP comes out with a new killer product (running webOS...hint hint) or a killer service for business/enterprise...where are they headed? dell and hp are starting to look beyond just pcs. but personally I think its late. where exactly is that beyond leading them?

I think the best chance for webOS is if it were free away from HP. at this point I just see HP as a big, lumbering, slow stumbling block. I dont know what their plans are for webOS but if its to bring some product out to the market in 5 years then we are not talking about mobile phones or anything I care about.

HP may be the "leader" now but it will not last.
Not the way things are right now.
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Old 08/06/2012, 01:11 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Yep, HP is on top of the PC producers... which alltogether is a shrinking market. So?

Or to help you with an allegory:
How does it make me competent to be the sad little king of my sad little hill? How does it make me competent to be the captain of a sinking ship? ...

I could go on...
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Old 08/06/2012, 01:16 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Yep, HP is on top of the PC producers... which alltogether is a shrinking market. So?

Or to help you with an allegory:
How does it make me competent to be the sad little king of my sad little hill? How does it make me competent to be the captain of a sinking ship? ...

I could go on...
And you think their discontinued products are their future? People didn't buy them when they were the present.
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Old 08/06/2012, 01:24 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Seeing that they have nothing but those discontinued products in their portfolio, I wonder what future you are arguing about ...
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Old 08/06/2012, 01:41 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Not supporting old hardware is fine as long as there is new hardware to move to. As I understand, currently there are very few, if any devices, that meet the criteria required for Open webOS. I haven't seen or heard anything that would suggest HP is making hardware or even if they have hardware partners.

The problem isn't the lack of support, the problem is the lack of a future.

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