webOS Nation Forums >  webOS Discussion >  Open webOS General Discussion > HP is doing the right thing -- Personal Opinion
HP is doing the right thing -- Personal Opinion
  Reply
Like Tree37Likes

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08/08/2012, 08:07 AM   #41 (permalink)
Member
 
Posts: 1,526
http://m.cnet.com/news/lack-of-focus-hurting-hp-against-apple-samsung-says-analyst/57488770?utm_medium=referral&utm_source=pulsenews

HP is lost.
MDsmartphone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08/08/2012, 09:37 AM   #42 (permalink)
Member
 
Posts: 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by fxspec06 View Post
I just posted this in response to the most recent article How do you feel about HP not supporting older devices in Open webOS? | webOS Nation, and I felt the need to share it further.

You know what: I'm cool with it. Why? Because I can comprehend what it takes to support something, and I understand that if they were to support those legacy devices, undoubtedly MAJOR sacrifices would have to be made where it really matters: real webOS.

The truth that it doesn't support legacy devices is not a fault to the current coders -- that's an original design flaw the original webOS failed to acknowledge.

Think about Windows: it supports all hardware from Windows 95 all the way through Windows 7.. you can upgrade from one version to the next without any problems. When webOS was first made, it never accounted for the various processors and other hardware it would eventually run on. In summary, it was never designed with future hardware in mind.

All I can hope is that this new open source route will account for this, and all future versions of webOS will have support for whatever legacy hardware it runs on. This will be difficult because of the current non standardized ARM processor market, but it will be no more difficult than it is for Google, Microsoft, or Apple.

If done correctly, this should be the last time we have to face this problem.

TL;DR: HP is doing the right thing. We don't want them to (literally) waste time supporting hardware that barely made it into the hands of anyone. We all want a better webOS. If you want a better webOS, this is the correct decision.
- my *&^% - the TouchPad is just over 1 year old. It is only considered Legacy because of stupid shortsighted decision by HP themselves.
pebacher is offline   Reply With Quote
Liked by Spherelander likes this.
Old 08/08/2012, 05:33 PM   #43 (permalink)
Member
 
Posts: 6
Quote:
Originally Posted by fxspec06 View Post
I just posted this in response to the most recent article How do you feel about HP not supporting older devices in Open webOS? | webOS Nation, and I felt the need to share it further.

You know what: I'm cool with it. Why? Because I can comprehend what it takes to support something, and I understand that if they were to support those legacy devices, undoubtedly MAJOR sacrifices would have to be made where it really matters: real webOS.

The truth that it doesn't support legacy devices is not a fault to the current coders -- that's an original design flaw the original webOS failed to acknowledge.

Think about Windows: it supports all hardware from Windows 95 all the way through Windows 7.. you can upgrade from one version to the next without any problems. When webOS was first made, it never accounted for the various processors and other hardware it would eventually run on. In summary, it was never designed with future hardware in mind.

All I can hope is that this new open source route will account for this, and all future versions of webOS will have support for whatever legacy hardware it runs on. This will be difficult because of the current non standardized ARM processor market, but it will be no more difficult than it is for Google, Microsoft, or Apple.

If done correctly, this should be the last time we have to face this problem.

TL;DR: HP is doing the right thing. We don't want them to (literally) waste time supporting hardware that barely made it into the hands of anyone. We all want a better webOS. If you want a better webOS, this is the correct decision.
>> undoubtedly MAJOR sacrifices would have to be made where it really matters: real webOS.

So what matters is the survival of an operating system without any hardware to port to and no customers to support? This sounds like a lot of DBAs I know who are fond of joking "my database just runs until the users log in".

>>The truth that it doesn't support legacy devices is not a fault to the current coders -- that's an original design flaw the original webOS failed to acknowledge.

There is no fatal hardware/os flaw only a lack of will from HP. The reason OpenWebOS won't run on Touchpad is HP not being able to distribute proprietary hardware driver source code (accelerated video, sound, camera, etc) owned by Qualcomm in an open source release of WebOS. The proprietary driver source code cannot legally be open sourced. But, HP could, if they valued their customers, distribute OpenWebOS including the proprietary drivers in binary form as part of a WebDoctor.

Yes, this would require extra resources to do. But one could argue that HP would gain in the long term by finally throwing their insanely loyal customers a bone. Other benefits would be to provide an native WebOS ecosystem for Enyo2 developed app other those trying to run them in other mobile O/S's and allow WebOS enthusiasts to support alpha and beta test efforts.

The whole WebOS 2.0 on Pre-/+ fiasco is yet another example of HP lacking the will to support customers. Whenever it comes to a choice between supporting the customer and and being cheap on resources HP goes cheap.


>>If done correctly, this should be the last time we have to face this problem.

If done correctly...... need I say more

>>We all want a better webOS. If you want a better webOS, this is the correct decision.

The right decision is to remember that "the customer is always right" or else they take their $$$ elsewhere. HP can sit back and build their "hobby O/S" as slowly and cheaply as they want and never bother with the boring daily grind of supporting users and porting hardware. Or HP can have the balls to do the hard work to earn and keep customers and build a real "consumer O/S".

Last edited by Spherelander; 08/08/2012 at 05:54 PM.
spherelander is offline   Reply With Quote
Thanked By: MDsmartphone
Old 08/08/2012, 07:14 PM   #44 (permalink)
Member
 
Posts: 755
The Pre, Pixi, Pre Plus and Pixi Plus were never HP products. They were Palm devices.

The customer has to take their business elsewhere in terms of mobile phones and the Touchpad, as HP has stopped making them.

Last edited by rnld; 08/08/2012 at 07:16 PM. Reason: added info
rnld is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08/09/2012, 12:23 AM   #45 (permalink)
Member
 
Buddy1969's Avatar
 
Posts: 546
I'll say it again.
Nobody still argues, why M$ is not supporting WinXP anymore.
Nobody still argues, because the 2.3 Android devices won't get Jellybean.
Nobody still argues, because they don't get their 2 year old car repaired for free, because the guarantee ran out.

From this perspecitve it would be ok for HP to say: no legacy devices supported, we have to move on, look forward and tackle the future...

But you see the difference don't you? With other companies and other products, there IS a future. So if there WERE new HP devices for OpenWebOS, I would say: heck HP, go on, I will follow as soon as I am fed up with my Pre3 or as soon as it doesn't work anymore.
But there IS NOTHING.
No hardware.
No hardware producing partner.
No plans or strategy.
Nothing.

So to say: "HP is right" and "They are building a future for WebOS" is cynical at best...
__________________
War doesn't prove who's right, only who's left...
Buddy1969 is offline   Reply With Quote
Liked by Rnp and geekpeter like this.
Thanked by Garfonso, MDsmartphone, Rnp
Old 08/09/2012, 04:04 AM   #46 (permalink)
Homebrew Developer
 
Vistaus's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,493
2.3 devices won't get Jelly Bean? False. The Alcatel OT 995 Ultra is currently running 2.3 but will get 4.1 upgrade in the next few months.
Vistaus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08/09/2012, 05:09 AM   #47 (permalink)
Member
 
Buddy1969's Avatar
 
Posts: 546
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vistaus View Post
2.3 devices won't get Jelly Bean? False. The Alcatel OT 995 Ultra is currently running 2.3 but will get 4.1 upgrade in the next few months.
There are enough 2.3 droids who won't get an upgrade. Please do not rip my words out of context. Try to understand them. I in turn try to make myself understood as well as I can in this language.

Thank you.
__________________
War doesn't prove who's right, only who's left...
Buddy1969 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08/09/2012, 06:16 AM   #48 (permalink)
Homebrew Developer
 
fxspec06's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,664
The customer is not always right, not when it comes to business. That's why people with degrees run companies, and customers don't.
__________________
Neo Enyo 2.0 Twitter App: NOW AVAILABLE | WON REVIEW
clearview - clear card app for HP TOUCHPAD
Wild'n Video Poker - AVAILABLE FOR ALL WEBOS DEVICES! | follow for latest updates - @fxspec06

fxspec06 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08/09/2012, 06:18 AM   #49 (permalink)
Homebrew Developer
 
fxspec06's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,664
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spherelander View Post
Yes, this would require extra resources to do. But one could argue that HP would gain in the long term by finally throwing their insanely loyal customers a bone
Do I really have to point out the flaws with this statement?
__________________
Neo Enyo 2.0 Twitter App: NOW AVAILABLE | WON REVIEW
clearview - clear card app for HP TOUCHPAD
Wild'n Video Poker - AVAILABLE FOR ALL WEBOS DEVICES! | follow for latest updates - @fxspec06

fxspec06 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08/09/2012, 07:07 AM   #50 (permalink)
Member
 
geekpeter's Avatar
 
Posts: 3,686
Quote:
Originally Posted by fxspec06 View Post
The customer is not always right, not when it comes to business. That's why people with degrees run companies, and customers don't.
to be fair tho, leo was 1 of those people and he did no better.

there should be at least a balance of what ppl want and what the business genius's want.
__________________
Touchpad Keyboard Themes - >> Click Me <<
geekpeter is offline   Reply With Quote
Liked by Spherelander and Vistaus like this.
Old 08/09/2012, 07:39 AM   #51 (permalink)
Member
 
Buddy1969's Avatar
 
Posts: 546
Quote:
Originally Posted by fxspec06 View Post
The customer is not always right, not when it comes to business. That's why people with degrees run companies, and customers don't.
Interesting statement. I think we should at first define, WHO we mean with "the customer".

Because if we talk about "the enthusiastic WebOS lover", your statement might be right. This group of customers is way too small to have a serious marketing impact.

If we talk about "the customer who buys IT products", we are talking of nearly everyone, even companies and we talk about PCs, Servers, Printer etc ... here HP has partly a good footing (server and printer wise).

If we talk about "the customer who buys the typical IT consumer product", then we are in a very interesting field of the market. These customers are a big share of the IT market and are constantly moving away from standard PCs to mobile solutions à la notebook, tablet and smartphone.
Here HP has a very bad footing, producing notebooks only but nothing interesting in the way of smartphones and/or tablets. Even if you are arguing with the "long way round" profit ratio of the serverbusiness being a central part of mobile and cloud IT, you have to admit, that without pad and smartphone their is an important part of the market, that is not covered by HP at the moment.
And we all know that the market is not waiting for anyone. See i.e. HTC loosing the market after being one of the major players in the Android market. See Nokia. See RIM. They all already played a role in that market and lose their places due to neglecting the pace.
Tagging behind, trying this and that, treading well-trodden paths with Win8 (yes-but no - but yes- but no) and showing not an ounce of strategy ... all this won't make HP part of the market and much less gain them trust and sympathy of the customer...

Sooo ... yes, your statement would normally be valid. HPs decision not to support the existing legacy devices would be right ... if there were any other. It would be ok if there was any other partner on the market for WebOS.
If they stick to their schedule, OpenWebOS is due next months. So far, none of us knows, what will happen with the OS afterwards.
For us WebOS lovers one thing is clear: our heroes from WebOSInternals will somehow save the day by porting the OS to existing Droid devices.
For potential companies, who think about putting the OS on their devices, the absence of a visible strategy is an absolute no go. If I would own a company I would think twice about putting an OS on my devices, when I can't say how committed the company behind it truly is.

That is what I chalk on to HP: no visible signals on the market, no visible strategy... thus results no trust from customers and companies likewise.

Makes me really sad, as I like WebOS a lot.
__________________
War doesn't prove who's right, only who's left...
Buddy1969 is offline   Reply With Quote
Liked by fxspec06 likes this.
Thanked By: fxspec06
Old 08/09/2012, 08:08 AM   #52 (permalink)
cgk
Member
 
cgk's Avatar
 
Posts: 3,868
I too remember how Microsoft ceased all support for xp a year after release.. Oh wait..

Sent from my Lumia 800 using Board Express
cgk is offline   Reply With Quote
Liked by xandros9, Spherelander and marcedhk like this.
Old 08/09/2012, 10:22 AM   #53 (permalink)
Member
 
Posts: 6
Quote:
Originally Posted by fxspec06 View Post
The customer is not always right, not when it comes to business. That's why people with degrees run companies, and customers don't.
Not if businesses want stay in business. HP has to ask themselves if OpenWebOS is a hobby or a business prospect. Is the palm unit a cost center or a potential profit center? To me it looks no longer like a business and just a hobby.

You write software for a living. From what I can see you understood yourself that you need to keep your customers happy and supported those who gave you their hard earned dollars. You didn't need a sanctimonious business degree to know this. Only those with business degrees so abstract themselves from common sense. One only needs to watch HP's dysfunctional BOD to see results of such leadership. The Palm Unit may be trying their best but they are just a small part of a larger schizophrenic corporation that's not sure who they are and what they are about.

Again is OpenWebOS an expensive hobby or a future consumer product?

Last edited by Spherelander; 08/09/2012 at 10:44 AM.
spherelander is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08/09/2012, 12:01 PM   #54 (permalink)
Member
 
geekpeter's Avatar
 
Posts: 3,686
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spherelander View Post
Not if businesses want stay in business. HP has to ask themselves if OpenWebOS is a hobby or a business prospect. Is the palm unit a cost center or a potential profit center? To me it looks no longer like a business and just a hobby.
idd, just look at sony, they promised what ppl wanted, remote play, ability to play all your old stuff ps1/ps2 and just general better vita/ps3 synergy, instead they ignore all that and lie and say remote play isnt viable/possible, yet a hacker manager to reactivate their hidden code and made it work just fine, they wont allow emulation because they want you to rebuy remakes/repackaged old games.

then they wonder why the vitas a giant bag of poo and no-ones really buying it, mine sits in a drawer doing lots of not much, i played 2-3 games then got bored as it had a far far far worse app selection than even the touchpad which is quite an unreal situation, and again they wonder why the device is a flop.

another company out of touch and will suffer for it, regardless of whatever unrealistic claims and new promises they make, their the same as HP after their spectacular 180, very few people/companies trust them.
__________________
Touchpad Keyboard Themes - >> Click Me <<
geekpeter is offline   Reply With Quote
Liked by Spherelander likes this.
Old 08/09/2012, 02:20 PM   #55 (permalink)
Homebrew Developer
 
fxspec06's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,664
Business have to do what they have to do to STAY IN BUSINESS. Otherwise, there's no point. If a customer comes to me and demands I give him support for an app I wrote two years ago, I may or may not be able to reasonably help him. It truly depends on what it is. I'm a single person and I have to make my own decisions for my future. I can't keep my feet two steps behind me and expect to move forward. Life doesn't work that way

Look, it's just the way it is. Technology has a lifespan. Some have longer lifespans.

Comparing Windows to webOS is like comparing apples to dirt. They're not only not the same thing, they're totally different purposes, aimed at completely different markets, and one was (understating) HUGELY more successful than the other.
__________________
Neo Enyo 2.0 Twitter App: NOW AVAILABLE | WON REVIEW
clearview - clear card app for HP TOUCHPAD
Wild'n Video Poker - AVAILABLE FOR ALL WEBOS DEVICES! | follow for latest updates - @fxspec06

fxspec06 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08/09/2012, 02:27 PM   #56 (permalink)
Homebrew Developer
 
fxspec06's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,664
Quote:
Originally Posted by geekpeter View Post
to be fair tho, leo was 1 of those people and he did no better.

there should be at least a balance of what ppl want and what the business genius's want.
to be fair tho, leo was an moron and absolutely nothing i say relates to him in any way, shape, or form
__________________
Neo Enyo 2.0 Twitter App: NOW AVAILABLE | WON REVIEW
clearview - clear card app for HP TOUCHPAD
Wild'n Video Poker - AVAILABLE FOR ALL WEBOS DEVICES! | follow for latest updates - @fxspec06

fxspec06 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08/09/2012, 02:31 PM   #57 (permalink)
Homebrew Developer
 
fxspec06's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,664
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buddy1969 View Post
Interesting statement. I think we should at first define, WHO we mean with "the customer".
I'm not gonna quote your whole post for the sake of it being very long, but you do raise some great points.

Everyone needs to remember HP != Palm. Very different companies, very different motives. There's no doubt in my mind Palm would have included legacy support for Open webOS .. because in this scenario the customer is generally an individual. HP's customer is not the individual. HP's customer is other business, IT departments, schools, etc. They work on a far greater, broader level and therefore you will find small groups / minorities left in the dust sometimes.

it happens
__________________
Neo Enyo 2.0 Twitter App: NOW AVAILABLE | WON REVIEW
clearview - clear card app for HP TOUCHPAD
Wild'n Video Poker - AVAILABLE FOR ALL WEBOS DEVICES! | follow for latest updates - @fxspec06

fxspec06 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08/09/2012, 03:01 PM   #58 (permalink)
Member
 
Posts: 755
Palm would offer legacy support? They didn't for the Treo line when it was discontinued.
rnld is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08/09/2012, 05:26 PM   #59 (permalink)
Homebrew Developer
 
Vistaus's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,493
Quote:
Originally Posted by fxspec06 View Post
The customer is not always right, not when it comes to business. That's why people with degrees run companies, and customers don't.
A very popular company in The Netherlands who produces buses (with also lots of exports to foreign countries including outside Europe) has a CEO that previously had no experience at all. And now they export a lot and tuff and make tons of money and cooperate on a few things with Volkswagen and Mercedes and even take over Mitsubishi's former plant in The Netherlands. If without a degree he made the company thát big, popular and financially rich, then tell me again people need degrees for that.

And then again, on the US side, there was Leo...
Vistaus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08/09/2012, 05:28 PM   #60 (permalink)
Homebrew Developer
 
Vistaus's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,493
Quote:
Originally Posted by rnld View Post
Palm would offer legacy support? They didn't for the Treo line when it was discontinued.
Indeed, although HP did give the original Pre Enyo support eve though the original Pre is 3-4 years old. It's not the 'legacy support' you'd expect, but hey, an update to a modern framework for such an old phone isn't something a lot of OEMs do.
Vistaus is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

 

Tags
legacy, open webos, right vs wrong

Thread Tools
Display Modes



 


Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0