webOS Nation Forums >  webOS Discussion >  Open webOS General Discussion > What do YOU expect of Open webOS?
What do YOU expect of Open webOS?
  Reply
Like Tree24Likes

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 07/26/2012, 02:56 PM   #41 (permalink)
Member
 
Posts: 1,617
Ok maybe wrong thread? But let me ask Open webOS is released, it is ported to a device (not current HP/Palm), will it have it's own identity?

Here is the details I am really looking for, the App Catalog needs to be configured
but as HP/Palm has tweaked the App Catalog (newer app, device versions, armv6/7).

HP/Palm has back dated apps (for instance, Pre2 V1.5.1 of Angry Birds, PrePlus V1.5.3, Touchpad has Angry Birds HD (no longer free)).

What will Open webOS or device running identify itself so the App Catalog will function.

HP/Palm screwed that up but then responded that it is the developer of those Apps that must fix what device and version. How will this work?
John Steffes is offline   Reply With Quote
Liked by RumoredNow likes this.
Thanked By: RumoredNow
Old 07/26/2012, 03:46 PM   #42 (permalink)
Homebrew Developer

 
Posts: 3,536
I imagine we won't know the specifics of that until it happens. If it were me making decisions, though, assuming that the vast majority of our web apps are compatible no matter what platform we go to, I'd probably auto-flag all web apps as compatible with the new release, no matter the hardware, and I'd guess that they'll probably end up doing something else as far as native/hybrid/etc goes.
__________________
Author:
Remove Messaging Beeps patch for webOS 3.0.5, Left/Right bezel gestures in LunaCE,
Whazaa! Messenger and node-wa, SynerGV 1 and 2 - Google Voice integration, XO - Subsonic Commander media streamer, AB:S Launcher
Quote:
(1:39:33 PM) halfhalo: Android multitasking is like sticking your fingers into a blender
GO OPEN WEBOS!
People asked me for a donate link for my non-catalog work, so here you are:
eblade is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07/26/2012, 04:24 PM   #43 (permalink)
pivotCE Developer
 
RumoredNow's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,231
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Steffes View Post
Ok maybe wrong thread? But let me ask Open webOS is released, it is ported to a device (not current HP/Palm), will it have it's own identity?

Here is the details I am really looking for, the App Catalog needs to be configured
but as HP/Palm has tweaked the App Catalog (newer app, device versions, armv6/7).

HP/Palm has back dated apps (for instance, Pre2 V1.5.1 of Angry Birds, PrePlus V1.5.3, Touchpad has Angry Birds HD (no longer free)).

What will Open webOS or device running identify itself so the App Catalog will function.

HP/Palm screwed that up but then responded that it is the developer of those Apps that must fix what device and version. How will this work?
A very good question... SCARY good.

And what happens to WOSQI? Or the standalone Preware Installer?

The porting method becomes, in essence, a Doctor, yes? But what about all the functionality we take for granted?

If those devices getting ports are stuck with stock OSwebOS X.whatever and can't get the expected support until the community builds everything by hand... Then porting becomes just a toy to play with and put away.
__________________
Lumia 1520.3 (the Beastly Unicorn): Windows 10 Mobile

Windows Central Senior Ambassador

Mobile Nations Devotee
RumoredNow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07/26/2012, 10:53 PM   #44 (permalink)
Member
 
darth_luigi's Avatar
 
Posts: 45
I Hope for OpenWebOS to work on the TouchPad, Pre3, Pre2 and Veer at release.
I Expect it will only work on the TouchPad and the community will have to get it working on phones.

I Hope HP has read the WOSN wishlist, has acted on many of them and done a major bug fix.
I Expect HP to add a hand full of new features and created almost as many bugs as they've fixed by ripping out the proprietary code.

I Hope Open Mobile's Android layer won't cost too much.
I Expect it to be $49.99 or higher.

I Hope HP has made a deal with a manufacture to make at least 1 phone and 1 tablet.
I Expect we will only have the option of old hardware and webOS being ported to the nexus phones as they are released.

I Hope OpenWebOS can build it's self back up to #3 in the market.
I Expect HP to loose interest and let it wither to nothing more the a hobbyist platform.

Wow this made me really sad. :'(
darth_luigi is offline   Reply With Quote
Liked by johncc and dignitary like this.
Old 07/27/2012, 11:24 AM   #45 (permalink)
Member
 
gihmley's Avatar
 
Posts: 126
I hope that it will run on virtually any Android handset out there, as it's a fairly sound assumption at this point that there is no new WebOS hardware in the works...

Realistically, I expect it to languish and die a slow, painful death as more and more users give up and go to other platforms so they can find the apps they want. And with a dwinding user base and no new WebOS hardware, I would expect the developers to move to other platforms where they can make a decent buck for their hard work.

Sucks, I know, but that's just what I really expect.
gihmley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07/27/2012, 12:45 PM   #46 (permalink)
Member
 
Posts: 755
Quote:
Originally Posted by gihmley View Post
I hope that it will run on virtually any Android handset out there, as it's a fairly sound assumption at this point that there is no new WebOS hardware in the works...

Realistically, I expect it to languish and die a slow, painful death as more and more users give up and go to other platforms so they can find the apps they want. And with a dwinding user base and no new WebOS hardware, I would expect the developers to move to other platforms where they can make a decent buck for their hard work.

Sucks, I know, but that's just what I really expect.
Do all versions of Android work on all of the Android handsets? There seems to be many Android phones still running 2.3, for instance.
rnld is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07/27/2012, 12:50 PM   #47 (permalink)
Member
 
Rockbeast's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,230
Quote:
Originally Posted by rnld View Post
Do all versions of Android work on all of the Android handsets? There seems to be many Android phones still running 2.3, for instance.
Was that a rhetorical question? It's hard to detect 'tone of voice' when typing!

Of course the answer is effectively 'no'. Maybe you could theoretically load the latest jellybean onto the original HTC phone using the first version of Android, but it would likely lock it up as soon as you tried to use it...the hardware just wouldn't be able to handle the requirements of the advanced operating system. I know I was looking at the Casio Commando. I wanted a ruggedized phone but I wanted to at least get some "Duarte" card swiping love from Ice Cream Sandwich (Android 4.0). The Casio only had an 800 MHz processor...and ICS is usually not effective on processors less than 1GHz.

So, I say "no"...in practicable terms...or is it practical?
__________________
Sent from my slowly diminishing intellect

I'm just a soul who's intentions are good...oh Lord, please don't let me be misunderstood!

Rockbeast is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07/27/2012, 03:45 PM   #48 (permalink)
Member
 
Posts: 755
There seems to be much newer phones that have not been updated to ICS - Photon comes to mind.

My question was really based on someone saying that they expect that WebOS would install on all Android phones.
rnld is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07/27/2012, 08:23 PM   #49 (permalink)
Member
 
falconrap's Avatar
 
Posts: 537
Based on the change in the kernel, I think it realistic to expect that Open webOS will load on most Android phones, at least the ones powerful enough to run it. If they get the newer java stuff in there, which is supposed to be much faster, then you will see a much smoother webOS, and even older Android phones (say off the 800MHz and up variety) should be able to comfortably run it.

Once it is out, it will be all about the drivers and having the necessary cell phone stuff installed to connect it to the network/s that the phone was designed to function on.

I hope that, with all of these lawsuits and money tied up in them over Android, that some of the makers decide they've had enough and give webOS a shot. It's had interest from some of these vendors before, but that was when it was attached to a billion dollar price tag. Now it's free and will come with lawsuit indemnity. Something Android does not have. Who would have thought, just 2 years ago, that Android would be so big, and RIM would be headed for the toilet?
falconrap is offline   Reply With Quote
Liked by RumoredNow likes this.
Thanked By: RumoredNow
Old 07/27/2012, 10:06 PM   #50 (permalink)
Banned
 
Posts: 753
Quote:
Originally Posted by falconrap View Post
I hope that, with all of these lawsuits and money tied up in them over Android, that some of the makers decide they've had enough and give webOS a shot.
When you're pinning your hopes on big names coming to webOS just because of piddling lawsuits, you're setting yourself up for extreme disappointment. 9 times out of 10, those lawsuits get settled and agreements are forged with money exchanging hands.

Generally, the only time a manufacturer ends support for a platform is when the platform goes largely belly up in the retail marketplace or can't gain traction in marketshare. And, unfortunately, that's where webOS is today. Chicken or egg issue, and rarely do those work in the favor of the underdog.
dignitary is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07/28/2012, 01:09 PM   #51 (permalink)
pivotCE Developer
 
RumoredNow's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,231
Quote:
Originally Posted by dignitary View Post
When you're pinning your hopes on big names coming to webOS just because of piddling lawsuits, you're setting yourself up for extreme disappointment. 9 times out of 10, those lawsuits get settled and agreements are forged with money exchanging hands.

Generally, the only time a manufacturer ends support for a platform is when the platform goes largely belly up in the retail marketplace or can't gain traction in marketshare. And, unfortunately, that's where webOS is today. Chicken or egg issue, and rarely do those work in the favor of the underdog.
Don't forget to factor in that almost all the OEMs who make Android handsets are loosing money on the endeavor. Add in some licensing and settlement money, delays in release due to injunctions and the looming suspicion that Google will move to make Motorola the only Tier 1 vehicle for new releases (after the "Five Year" promise of a level playing field expires).

Android doesn't look as attractive as it once did to OEMs. I'm sure many a boardroom is wrangling over what strategy to adopt that will ensure visibility and profitability in the booming mobile field. For everyone but Samsung, Android has in effect gone "belly up" for all intents and purposes. (A corporation's purpose being profit, naturally.) If you are a company playing the mobile game and you spend $$$ manufacturing, marketing and distributing devices and it nets you a loss - these lawsuits, settlements, bad press, headaches, delays, etc. lumped on top of that loss must make holding the "steady course" and maintaining the "status quo" hugely unpalatable.
__________________
Lumia 1520.3 (the Beastly Unicorn): Windows 10 Mobile

Windows Central Senior Ambassador

Mobile Nations Devotee
RumoredNow is offline   Reply With Quote
Thanked By: falconrap
Old 07/28/2012, 02:01 PM   #52 (permalink)
Member
 
Posts: 755
So they are going to switch from one of the most branded mobile OS names and go to WebOS?
rnld is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07/28/2012, 03:20 PM   #53 (permalink)
Member
 
falconrap's Avatar
 
Posts: 537
Let's have a little history lesson. webOS garnered a ton of positive press during the first year, and managed to pick up over a million phone users when smartphone usage was still relatively small. What killed webOS was a combination of not having all of the form factors that people want, especially the slab that appears to now be the main form factor of preference, as well as the initial hardware being somewhat poor in quality, and having smaller screens. I have shown many people the OS over the years and it has never failed to wow people. Then they examine the hardware and...well...not so much.

When HP started shopping the OS around, there were quite a few interested parties, but not at the price that HP was seeking. Samsung, despite being the profitable Android maker, is still looking at other OS's to hedge its bets on. Right now, Windows Phone is the one getting the most looks and action from Samsung and HTC. So far, Windows Phone hasn't totally taken off. If WP8 fails to get much movement, then there will be some opportunity. But the big opportunity for Android set makers is that they can take their current handsets and make them run webOS with little modification (change the button scheme on the bottom - easier if they are just a capacitive area - and load the OS and your done). It would actually be easier and cheaper to load webOS on these phones than any other OS out there.

I'm not hedging my bets on this happening, I just know that it is a very realistic possibility, especially as more and more lawsuits are won by Apple, and more and more phones fail to make money using Android. If Samsung continues to loose suits to Apple, even they may not be able to make money on Android anymore. We'll see. I'm not betting on it, I just wouldn't be surprised to see it happen.
falconrap is offline   Reply With Quote
Liked by RumoredNow likes this.
Thanked By: RumoredNow
Old 07/28/2012, 03:33 PM   #54 (permalink)
pivotCE Developer
 
RumoredNow's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,231
Quote:
Originally Posted by rnld View Post
So they are going to switch from one of the most branded mobile OS names and go to WebOS?
Not exactly what I said...

I'm just saying that they must be looking for a way to make money in mobile.

Now to redirect from answering your post specifically, rnld, and get back to furthering my point and clarifying it a little...

Android is NOT making them profit in the mobile smart phone market.

They have alternatives and must be examining them. webOS is on the radar as an offering from the past and as falconrap pointed out the cost of entry drops considerably from $$$1.2 billion$$$ that HP payed to acquire Palm down to some development and driver licensing costs once it goes Open Source.

I'm not saying it is any company's strategy as we've seen no evidence of such.

What I am saying is that mobile OEMs must be tired of loosing money. If a schmuck like me can piece together the puzzle and discover the picture that Android causes a company to hemorrhage money and there is a 4th gen mobile OS about to be released that has a reduced developing cost - then why is it impossible that any corporation could come to assemble a similar picture?

Let's look at world wide smart phone sales:


Android sales are through the roof - very correct- but nobody is making profit off Android handsets besides Samsung. But how long do you think a company will continue producing Android handsets at a loss? How long do you believe an OEM will operate under a strategy at a loss and not face pressure from stockholders, board members, CFOs, etc. to change their strategy and become profitable? It isn't a consumer driven model I'm proposing. Companies want to make profit. That's a given.

What are their alternatives?

Stick with Android and hope something happens to suddenly reverse the trend of Samsung squeezing all others out of being profitable? Running at a loss year after year and continuing on with it just to keep your name out there? Keep your name out there for what? For being known to loose money for your investors and shareholders? What, exactly points to reversing the ongoing (for several years) trend of Samsung eating up all the profits in Android handsets? When is enough loss too much? I think it unreasonable to believe that every OEM will ride Android into bankruptcy and dissolvement.

Apple's iOS? Not possible. It's closed to outsiders. If it was opened, I'm sure the licensing fees would be very high. Think anyone can even begin to crack that one open?

Symbian? It's on the decline since mid 2010. It's been close sourced by Nokia and even they aren't counting on it - opting instead to back Win Phone.

RIM's BB OS? Think anyone is going to license that? I'm sure RIM would love the cash... Will it even survive beyond BB10?

Bada? Bada got some traction but now it's being merged into Tizen - backed by Intel/Samsung. I don't think anyone is going to be licensing Bada, do you?

Let's look at Tizen. It's not on the chart. It is Open Source. But Samsung controls the SDK and manufactured the official developer phone. I think it was a smart move for them to cozy up to Tizen and offer to "take it under their wing" as it helps keep an open source OS out of their competitor's hands. Merging Bada into the Tizen code makes it even less likely that another OEM will find it attractive. Am I missing something here? Is Tizen a legitimate vehicle into profitability for an OEM? If so, how?

Who else isn't on the chart? Meego? Where is Meego in relation to attracting OEMs? They've gotten some partnerships going with China OEMs. Do you think Meego is about to leverage that into the next mobile OS to make a mark? How effective has Meego been in the past? Why would it suddenly bloom? Only as an OEM taking a chance to differentiate from Android as a strategy to profit in mobile. Maybe the Facebook Phone? Off and on again rumors say that Facebook OS may be coming? Really? I for one can see some appeal to that for an OEM and it might attract some... But it gets you locked down again to another's model. At least developing a new OS is a better idea for market penetration than sitting on the same money loosing strategy.

Back to the chart: Win Mobile is dead... It never really penetrated as far as Msft's dollars should have allowed. Now there is Win Phone. How many OEMs can climb on that bandwagon? It's gaining numbers, but a large part of that is other OS's decline being sopped up. How many OEM's can make a profit out of Win Phone handsets? Is it working for Nokia?


vvv Questions I think deserve serious consideration to further debate vvv

So are these OEMs all supposed to just go bankrupt and close up shop? Why won't they seek an alternate strategy over corporate death and dismemberment?

They have to do something.

Is there a way for them to suddenly turn a profit on Android? If so how?

Must every OEM wait for a corporate software partnership to have a chance? Doesn't licensing cut into profits? How does that get mollified?

How costly and time consuming is creating a proprietary OS from scratch? How much licensing of patents has to be purchased to make a viable OS? Is it too cost and time inefficient to start creating a proprietary OS at this late date to save an OEM from being on the verge of bankruptcy?

What new alternative is on the horizon that could possibly net a profit for more than one or two OEMs?

^^^ If you have a realistic and viable answer to one or more of the above, please share it. ^^^

How does an Open Source / 4th generation OS with a smooth and intuitive UI and a decreased development cost not look attractive? What better alternative is out there that leads to a profitable handset?


Again... OEM companies must be looking for some sort of strategy to become profitable. Why wouldn't they be?
__________________
Lumia 1520.3 (the Beastly Unicorn): Windows 10 Mobile

Windows Central Senior Ambassador

Mobile Nations Devotee
RumoredNow is offline   Reply With Quote
Liked by Rnp and falconrap like this.
Thanked by falconrap, Rnp
Old 07/28/2012, 04:13 PM   #55 (permalink)
Member
 
Posts: 1,617
If what is rumored to happen in US, all carriers have suggested they are going to stop subsidizing the phone, then the carrier and OEM all make a profit...

FYI One has to switch to Verizon's share everything, if they want to get a subsidized phone, a bunch of groups already did the math. Seen many articles (on MSNBC) cheaper to buy a phone out right and pay month to month, then buy a subsidized phone with the new plan.
John Steffes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07/28/2012, 04:28 PM   #56 (permalink)
cgk
Member
 
cgk's Avatar
 
Posts: 3,868
Anyone looking to make profit in mobile is not going to select webos, this stuff is pie in the sky.

More likely they exit the sector before that happens.


Sent from my Lumia 800 using Board Express
cgk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07/28/2012, 04:49 PM   #57 (permalink)
Member
 
Posts: 755
Quote:
Originally Posted by falconrap View Post
Let's have a little history lesson. webOS garnered a ton of positive press during the first year, and managed to pick up over a million phone users when smartphone usage was still relatively small.
Smartphone usage was small in 2009? The Pre was launched 10 days before the 3rd generation iPhone (3GS).
rnld is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07/28/2012, 05:03 PM   #58 (permalink)
Moderator

 
sledge007's Avatar
 
Posts: 6,337
I like surprises, so I'm not expecting anything. Zero chance of letdown that way as well.
__________________
Due to the cancellation of the penny, I no longer give 2 about anything. I may however, give a nickel
sledge007 is offline   Reply With Quote
Liked by RumoredNow likes this.
Old 07/28/2012, 05:43 PM   #59 (permalink)
pivotCE Developer
 
RumoredNow's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,231
Quote:
Originally Posted by sledge007 View Post
I like surprises, so I'm not expecting anything. Zero chance of letdown that way as well.
I'm not expecting anything directly related to webOS either...


Quote:
Originally Posted by CGK View Post
Anyone looking to make profit in mobile is not going to select webos, this stuff is pie in the sky.

More likely they exit the sector before that happens.


Sent from my Lumia 800 using Board Express
However, I don't expect that the following OEMs will unanimously decide they will walk away from mobile or just quietly go out of business: Nokia, Motorola, Sony Ericsson, LG, HTC, RIM, Huawei, Acer, Asus, Dell, Alcatel, Sharp, Toshiba, Pantech, ZTE, Blu, Gigabyte, Kyocera, Lenovo, Meizu and countless others.

Seriously CGK what makes you constantly assert that all these companies will simply give up or die in the marketplace?

Are you saying there is only room for Apple and Samsung?

Please offer some specifics or stop SPAMMING the board with the same flat-toned statement over and over again. I've yet to see you offer anything substantive on this point of discussion or any sort of proof for your position which is backed up by logic, statistics or relevant articles/graphs.

There is nothing to support your recurring assertion that a huge number of companies will refuse to do anything to capitalize on the fast growing mobile segment and would just as soon not make any money from it or continue to fail until the point of collapse.
__________________
Lumia 1520.3 (the Beastly Unicorn): Windows 10 Mobile

Windows Central Senior Ambassador

Mobile Nations Devotee
RumoredNow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07/28/2012, 05:57 PM   #60 (permalink)
Member
 
Posts: 755
But why WebOS? Nobody outside of HP has been able to see what Open WebOS is. We do know they have a small crew and interns working on it.

Maybe it will be great, maybe not.

To get a major maker of smart phones to move to a platform with an app store that is years behind the big 2 is a hard sell.

How is more money made with WebOS than Android?
rnld is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

 

Thread Tools
Display Modes



 


Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0