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Should HP enforce a basic phone template?
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Old 07/09/2012, 10:25 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Think about it. Android is basically open source. And there are at least 100 knockoffs. at least 100 terrible ones samsung has made and 100 from other manufacturers. Will this happen to webOS? If it does it will cause lots of fragmentation like with android. How will we prevent this?
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Old 07/09/2012, 10:29 AM   #2 (permalink)
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My guess: HP will not enforce anything. If anything, a year from now thy will ask: Web-O-WHAT?

(please, HP, prove me wrong
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Old 07/09/2012, 10:34 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Mojo + Enyo

That's a good point there though

Better than the current phone template, which is "no phones"
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Old 07/09/2012, 11:27 AM   #4 (permalink)
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I think HP gave up the ability to enforce much of anything when they made the decision to open source the operating system. That said, depending on the nature of the governance structure for the project the leaders of the project can likely yield a lot of influence on hardware decisions of manufacturers. As the project ramps up, the leadership can probably put out guidelines for minimum hardware specs and optimal specs and indicate that the official project will not support hardware falling below such specs. Additionally, the structure could probably give greater voice to any OEM's willing to produce devices meeting minimum specifications. Again, the leadership likely doesn't have the ability to make a manufacturer produce devices meeting minimum specs, but can probably wield a lot of influence on device manufacturers.

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Old 07/09/2012, 11:48 AM   #5 (permalink)
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I agree with Gargoyle. However, I don't think HP has to enforce too much anyway. The problem that Android has is with the base UI (for 2.x). It is hideous. That is why there are so many home screen replacements and skins. The only reason ICS is somewhat bearable is because the head GUI designer from webOS designed it for Google. Most of Android's (and iOS) customizations are done to make up for design flaws in the OS that webOS does not have. The cards are beautiful and highly useful. Mojo/Enyo looks a lot better than Android's toolkits.

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Old 07/09/2012, 11:55 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Also want to add that even though webOS UI looks good and doesn't need as much customization, companies are going to do it anyway. It allows them to distinguish their devices from other brands.

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Old 07/09/2012, 01:46 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by boovish View Post
Think about it. Android is basically open source. And there are at least 100 knockoffs. at least 100 terrible ones samsung has made and 100 from other manufacturers. Will this happen to webOS? If it does it will cause lots of fragmentation like with android. How will we prevent this?
I think the struggle is to get one manufacturer to create a device, let alone rein in 100. Let's worry about fragmentation when someone announces the second device to use Open webOS.
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Old 07/09/2012, 03:08 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Buddy1969 View Post
My guess: HP will not enforce anything. If anything, a year from now thy will ask: Web-O-WHAT?

(please, HP, prove me wrong
Fingers crossed
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Old 07/09/2012, 06:43 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Most of Android's (and iOS) customizations are done to make up for design flaws in the OS that webOS does not have.

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You can't be serious.
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Old 07/09/2012, 06:50 PM   #10 (permalink)
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You can't be serious.
Yes, I am.

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Old 07/09/2012, 07:28 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Yes, I am.

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Hardly anyone knows a thing about WebOS and the iPhone 4 came out around the same time as the Pre Plus.

WebOS hadn't even made it to 1.4.5.1 at that point.
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Old 07/10/2012, 12:13 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Hardly anyone knows a thing about WebOS and the iPhone 4 came out around the same time as the Pre Plus.

WebOS hadn't even made it to 1.4.5.1 at that point.
What does that have to do with my statement. Just because something is designed well does not mean it is going to succeed. It takes more than that. WebOS' UI design is unique and well thought out. Android and iOS are not. It is a pain in the **** to use either one of those OS' when compared to webOS.


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Old 07/10/2012, 12:26 AM   #13 (permalink)
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What does that have to do with my statement. Just because something is designed well does not mean it is going to succeed. It takes more than that. WebOS' UI design is unique and well thought out. Android and iOS are not. It is a pain in the **** to use either one of those OS' when compared to webOS.


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That has everything to do with your statement.

Your claim was "Most of Android's (and iOS) customizations are done to make up for design flaws in the OS that webOS does not have."

WebOS was (and is) so far behind both OS and so few people bought WebOS devices, to claim that anyone did customizations because WebOS was not flawed is laughable.

Read this forum - every 4th post is about a new root or customization to make WebOS work as it should have in the first place.

It's great to be a WebOS lover but your observation is not rooted in reality.
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Old 07/10/2012, 01:43 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Nice disussion.

For me, stack card UI on webOS is amazing and useful comparing iOS/Android. The real fast switch multitasking.

If you're android & ios user behind the steering wheel of your car (as a driver), you will deadly risk using that phone. Not many android using qwerty hardware, and iOs stil using back-to-back UI.

With webOS, Just Type features is the God helper.

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Old 07/10/2012, 01:57 AM   #15 (permalink)
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... WebOS was (and is) so far behind both OS ....
And you measure that .... how exactly?`

I think what you confuse are the general system design and the marketing. Designwise, WebOS was WAY ahead of the other OSs (Multitasking, Notifications, etcetcetc).
Marketingwise, neither Palm nor HP were up to the task. They were like toddlers that happend to get their fingers on a phaser pistol. Nothing good can come from that...
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Old 07/10/2012, 07:20 AM   #16 (permalink)
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That has everything to do with your statement.

Your claim was "Most of Android's (and iOS) customizations are done to make up for design flaws in the OS that webOS does not have."

WebOS was (and is) so far behind both OS and so few people bought WebOS devices, to claim that anyone did customizations because WebOS was not flawed is laughable.

Read this forum - every 4th post is about a new root or customization to make WebOS work as it should have in the first place.

It's great to be a WebOS lover but your observation is not rooted in reality.
Notice you wrote that "every 4th post is about a new root or customization to make WebOS work as it should have". How many of those customizations are actually UI changes on as grand a scale as Motoblur or SenseUI? Adding a battery percentage number to the top bar or changing the logging level to stop the OS from stuttering is not the same as what SenseUI does to standard Android. Even now that we have CE we still don't see any major changes to the look of webOS that you see with the Android customizations. There is really no need.

The OP was concerned with the fragmentation of Android making it to webOS. One of the main reasons that Android is fragmented is because the companies that make the hardware don't update their devices to new versions of the OS because it would break compatability on a large scale with their UI changes. The UI changes started as a way to make up for flaws in the UI design but have morphed into a way of branding the device for that company.

BTW, as posted numerous times before, I am a major fan of both webOS and Android. I have spent a considerable amount of time and money on both OS. I have a hard time enjoying Android because the UI sucks so bad that in some ways it hinders getting work done for me. I keep coming back to webOS for that reason (its definitely not for the number of apps).


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Old 07/10/2012, 08:58 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Mods will be made to dumb down the OS for public consumption probably.

People dont read the manual these days...
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Old 07/10/2012, 10:01 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Mods will be made to dumb down the OS for public consumption probably.

People dont read the manual these days...
whats a manual?

i remember reading the palm pre manual from beginning to end before the phones were even up for sale, i knew more about the phone when i went in to by it, the sales rep was awestruck as im zipping along through the settings, and i was a little ticked that i had sit through the gesture instructions.

w/ my galaxy nexus, ive only perused the manual after i'd been using the phone for about a month and wanted to find info for ringtunes and where my music is stored on the device and why i cant use the ringtunes i currently have though winamp can play them. still havent found it, pretty have given up on changing my default tunes now.

and with both experiences webOS is by far easier to use and alot less frustrating when it comes navigating around, hell i think my Instinct is less frustrating to navigate then galaxy nexus...huh, where is my $200 dollar mp3 player(all i use it for anymore on road trips, radio off that thing can last for days)
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Old 07/10/2012, 11:33 AM   #19 (permalink)
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we already have a perfectly fine template in the form of enyo/enyo2, even if someone had a perfect setup that everyone loved, youd still get custom UI's in apps like splashtop and a few more do, to make their product look identical on all platforms and to a smaller extent, unique.

tbh i like the webOS look, feel and operation just fine as is, as a few earlier have mentioned, most "tweaks" are minor rather than extensive/massive..
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Old 07/10/2012, 02:53 PM   #20 (permalink)
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boovish, I don't think that at this point you will get a good answer to your question. Open source means that others can do with the code as they wish as long as they contribute back to the community. Even if HP were to establish a standards board for the OS, that would not prevent other hardware makers from taking their own route. They just couldn't claim that their offerings was to the standard.

If phone developers pick up open webOS and it becomes as popular as Android, they are going to need some way to distinguish their products from others. They will definitely do this on the hardware level. On the software level I just don't see it happening too much because there is not a need. With Android there is a need because there is not a uniformed look and feel even between preinstalled (default/system) applications. It was necessary to polish up Android's UI and, to an extent, add some branding to attract customers.

I think that if open webOS becomes popular you will see custom boot splashes, wallpapers, and some vendor specific applications (kind of like desktop Windows OS). However you will not see the massive UI/look and feel changes that you see now between Android devices. That's just my guess and open webOS has to become popular first to prove me right or wrong. Only time will tell.....
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