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Should HP enforce a basic phone template?
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Old 07/11/2012, 03:53 AM   #21 (permalink)
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this whole thread is a case of running before we can walk. Has anyone besides a start up actually made any commitments to openwebos hardware? I am much more concerned about getting a device running the OS into my hands then about any fragmentation that may or may not occur 5 years down the line.

Oh, and on a completely unrelated matter is anyone else really worried about the effects of time travel on the human body? I know we can't time traveljust yet, but we might do at some point in the future
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Old 07/11/2012, 03:55 AM   #22 (permalink)
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the best case scenario for HP is that another manufacturer picks up openwebos, and starts to tweak it and make devices for it. IF (and its a big motherf**king IF) that happens, you'll see HP scale down (or even drop) openwebos development within a matter of months.

Last edited by steven_farkas; 07/11/2012 at 08:57 AM.
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Old 07/11/2012, 09:10 AM   #23 (permalink)
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Sprint-HTC-EVO-4G-LTE-cell-phone-1.jpg

Samsung-Galaxy-Chat-620x380.jpg

142049-q1-and-q2-2012-sprint-samsung-android-phones-2.jpg

HTC-EVO-3D-4G-Android-Phone-Sprint.jpg

The problem is these designs are horrible. the camera sticks out theres a lump on the bottom and everyone is now obsessed with putting the power button on the side for a small phone.
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Old 07/22/2012, 04:41 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Think about it. Android is basically open source. And there are at least 100 knockoffs. at least 100 terrible ones samsung has made and 100 from other manufacturers. Will this happen to webOS? If it does it will cause lots of fragmentation like with android. How will we prevent this?
Well, the short and sweet answer is you can't. Neither should you want to. I've said it before and I will say it again, fragmentation is the BEST thing that could happen to Open webOS. Why? Because that means that multiple organizations have produced hardware for it, people are using it, and they want to customize it in a way that differentiates themselves from the pack.

The mere fact that it is open source implies that there is no control whatsoever. I could grab the source, build some hardware, modify the heck out of the source to whatever I want, look like whatever I want, and there is nothing anyone could do about it. Could I force my changes back into Open webOS? No way, just like Samsung/HTC/etc. can't force their changes back into AOSP.

Fragmentation -- a problem HP dreams about every night with Open webOS.
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Old 07/25/2012, 11:28 AM   #25 (permalink)
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I mean, no offense...do people actually thing a company that is not a KIRF company (and thats even being generous) will step up to the plate and release webos hardware? I mean seriously?

Your best bet is going to be the porting of open WebOS to your existing hardware. HP is feining interest behind it simply because if they didn't shareholders would go crazy about the waste of money.

I know many here love WebOS and want to ride it till the death...but no need to actually get delusional about its future.
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Old 07/25/2012, 04:45 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Fragmentation -- a problem HP dreams about every night with Open webOS.

Fragmentation is what webOS has been, and will be...

Official versions from HP/Palm

Touchpad WiFi, AT&T 3G, or Go 3.0.5
Sprint Pre or Pixi 1.4.5
Bell Mobility Pre 1.4.5
O2 Pre & PixiPlus 1.4.5, PrePlus 2.1.0, Veer 2.1.1
Vodafone (Verizon's parent) PixiPlus 1.4.5, PrePlus 2.1.0
SFR PrePlus 2.1.0, PixiPlus 1.4.5, Pre2 2.2.4
Telcel GSM Pre 1.4.0.
Verizon Wireless PrePlus & PixiPlus 1.4.5.1, Pre2 2.1.0, Pre3 (not official released) 2.2.4
AT&T PrePlus & PixiPlus 1.4.5, Veer 2.1.2, Pre3 (not official release) 2.2.4
Rogers Pre2 2.2.4
Unlocked Pre2 2.2.4, Pre3 2.2.4

Wow what a mess....

FYI rumor a webOS 2.2.5 and webOS 3.0.6 have been detected although on unknown models..., webOS 3.0.5 community edition, and Open webOS...

Last edited by John Steffes; 07/25/2012 at 07:28 PM.
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Old 07/25/2012, 06:00 PM   #27 (permalink)
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I mean, no offense...do people actually thing a company that is not a KIRF company (and thats even being generous) will step up to the plate and release webos hardware? I mean seriously?

Your best bet is going to be the porting of open WebOS to your existing hardware. HP is feining interest behind it simply because if they didn't shareholders would go crazy about the waste of money.

I know many here love WebOS and want to ride it till the death...but no need to actually get delusional about its future.
What's wrong with just being able to install it on existing hardware for the moment? I've been using desktop Linux (which Android and webOS are based on, btw) for about 17 years. Total amount of hardware I bought with desktop Linux pre-installed....none. Not that I didn't want to. However since Linux can be installed on virtually anything and it is 100x easier to install Linux on a computer than it is to install or upgrade any version of Windows (a lot faster too), I've never had to worry about having dedicated Linux hardware. Open webOS will use the standard Linux kernel, so you should be able to install it on virtually anything, just like Linux. Last time I checked the Linux community was alive and well even after many people thought it would just die away because of a lack of dedicated hardware, so I don't think webOS has anything to worry about.
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Old 07/25/2012, 09:43 PM   #28 (permalink)
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What's wrong with just being able to install it on existing hardware for the moment?
Absolutely nothing is wrong with that -- but it won't happen for a VERY long time.

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I've been using desktop Linux (which Android and webOS are based on, btw) for about 17 years. Total amount of hardware I bought with desktop Linux pre-installed....none. Not that I didn't want to. However since Linux can be installed on virtually anything and it is 100x easier to install Linux on a computer than it is to install or upgrade any version of Windows (a lot faster too), I've never had to worry about having dedicated Linux hardware. Open webOS will use the standard Linux kernel, so you should be able to install it on virtually anything, just like Linux. Last time I checked the Linux community was alive and well even after many people thought it would just die away because of a lack of dedicated hardware, so I don't think webOS has anything to worry about.
OK, so if we count back those 17 year that would bring us to about 1995. By 1995 PCs had been very standardized -- common interfaces, common motherboards, etc., etc. And over the years since then they have become even more standardized. I would invite you to think back to installing Linux on a PC back in the 90s. Remember when you would install it and your mouse might not work? Your printer wouldn't work? You had no sound, no microphone? As "plug and play" has become ubiquitous those drivers are available and able to be utilized by that standard Linux kernel.

Fast forward to today, how standardized are mobile phone architectures? There are so many proprietary interfaces that exist within the industry as every manufacturer attempts to eke out every possible performance improvement they can. While the standard Linux kernel may be great it has a long way to go (along with the hardware) before you will ever be able to mix and match hardware and OS.
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Old 07/25/2012, 10:57 PM   #29 (permalink)
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I was about to say...Cryogen can't even get ALL driver support for the android phones out today when they build their ROMs. If the MORE active community over there can't manage that, how do WebOS holdouts hope that they can port WebOS to a fully functioning modern day device?

Hopefully HP just releases developer hardware...but I seriously think a lot of people are a bit TOO hopeful for the future.
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Old 07/25/2012, 11:34 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Fragmentation is what webOS has been, and will be...

Official versions from HP/Palm

Touchpad WiFi, AT&T 3G, or Go 3.0.5
Sprint Pre or Pixi 1.4.5
Bell Mobility Pre 1.4.5
O2 Pre & PixiPlus 1.4.5, PrePlus 2.1.0, Veer 2.1.1
Vodafone (Verizon's parent) PixiPlus 1.4.5, PrePlus 2.1.0
SFR PrePlus 2.1.0, PixiPlus 1.4.5, Pre2 2.2.4
Telcel GSM Pre 1.4.0.
Verizon Wireless PrePlus & PixiPlus 1.4.5.1, Pre2 2.1.0, Pre3 (not official released) 2.2.4
AT&T PrePlus & PixiPlus 1.4.5, Veer 2.1.2, Pre3 (not official release) 2.2.4
Rogers Pre2 2.2.4
Unlocked Pre2 2.2.4, Pre3 2.2.4

Wow what a mess....

FYI rumor a webOS 2.2.5 and webOS 3.0.6 have been detected although on unknown models..., webOS 3.0.5 community edition, and Open webOS...
While true, it's probably quite likely that the most common version of webOS is 3.0.5, it's latest version. Basically, from a developer standpoint, there's very little difference in developing for the different versions of webOS and the different hardwares that it is on at this time. You have 4 different screensizes (Pre/Pre2, Pixi/Veer, Pre3, TouchPad), which for the most part, the whole app frameworks deal with automatically (considering we are talking about web apps, and the web browser deals with that stuff mostly automatically), and 3 (basically) OS versions. If your apps depend on a feature that is not available in v1, it will still work fine on v2 and v3. If you use only features that are available on v1, it will work just the same on v1, v2, and v3.

This is not how it necessarily works in Android. It might not end up working the same in webOS, especially for native/hybrid apps, once it's on vastly differing hardwares. But, the odds are a lot better, that no matter what goes on in webOS, that web apps are going to run pretty much just the same across all the different hardwares. Unfortunately, Android has a crap ton of terrible hacks for dealing with WebViews on the platform, so that adds some horrific experiences to doing web apps in Android.
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Old 07/26/2012, 01:55 AM   #31 (permalink)
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People talk about porting WebOS to another devices on one hand and talk about porting Android to the Touchpad on the other.

Seriously, other than the die hards here, who is going to bother putting WebOS on an Android phone?

Last edited by rnld; 07/26/2012 at 12:25 PM. Reason: typo
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Old 07/26/2012, 05:05 AM   #32 (permalink)
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Absolutely nothing is wrong with that -- but it won't happen for a VERY long time.



OK, so if we count back those 17 year that would bring us to about 1995. By 1995 PCs had been very standardized -- common interfaces, common motherboards, etc., etc. And over the years since then they have become even more standardized. I would invite you to think back to installing Linux on a PC back in the 90s. Remember when you would install it and your mouse might not work? Your printer wouldn't work? You had no sound, no microphone? As "plug and play" has become ubiquitous those drivers are available and able to be utilized by that standard Linux kernel.

Fast forward to today, how standardized are mobile phone architectures? There are so many proprietary interfaces that exist within the industry as every manufacturer attempts to eke out every possible performance improvement they can. While the standard Linux kernel may be great it has a long way to go (along with the hardware) before you will ever be able to mix and match hardware and OS.
There are several things working in webOS' favor. It will use the standard Linux kernel allowing it to be installed on more than just mobile hardware. Android uses the Linux kernel (though not the standard one). Android is on just about everything. Android is open source. As long as the drivers for the hardware are open source, they can be recompiled to work with webOS' kernel.

My mouse always worked, the scrolling wheel may not have, but the mouse did.
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Old 07/26/2012, 05:11 AM   #33 (permalink)
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People talk about porting WebOS to another dives on one hand and talk about porting Android to the Touchpad on the other.

Seriously, other than the die hards here, who is going to bother putting WebOS on an Android phone?
Same people that bother putting Android on a WebOS device....

Look I heard these same arguments with Linux. They get old over time.
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Old 07/26/2012, 07:39 AM   #34 (permalink)
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....

Seriously, other than the die hards here, who is going to bother putting WebOS on an Android phone?
Everyone who doesn't want to break their fingers over the so called "Android Multitasking" ....
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Old 07/26/2012, 09:36 AM   #35 (permalink)
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There are several things working in webOS' favor. It will use the standard Linux kernel allowing it to be installed on more than just mobile hardware. Android uses the Linux kernel (though not the standard one). Android is on just about everything. Android is open source. As long as the drivers for the hardware are open source, they can be recompiled to work with webOS' kernel.

My mouse always worked, the scrolling wheel may not have, but the mouse did.
Drivers aren't open source.

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Everyone who doesn't want to break their fingers over the so called "Android Multitasking" ....
I could at lesat roll with that argument with Gingerbread (but still not agree) but Ice Cream Sandwhich and Jelly Bean multi-tasking are wonderful.
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Old 07/26/2012, 12:02 PM   #36 (permalink)
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Drivers aren't open source..
You lost me on this. Are you saying that there are no open source drivers? Or are you saying that most drivers are not open source? I believe that only one of those statements is true (hint, there are a lot of open source drivers).


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I could at lesat roll with that argument with Gingerbread (but still not agree) but Ice Cream Sandwhich and Jelly Bean multi-tasking are wonderful.
Haven't used Jelly Bean yet, but the mulitasking in ICS is not that good at all. It is a step above Gingerbread but that is not saying much. It is definitely not webOS good. I don't know if I can even say that it is just "good enough". I know that I don't like it because you can't close the app you are currently on, which is annoying. It has a prettier interface for displaying running tasks (except the one you are on) and you can swipe left or right to close those tasks, but that is about it for improvements.
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Old 07/26/2012, 12:36 PM   #37 (permalink)
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Same people that bother putting Android on a WebOS device....

Look I heard these same arguments with Linux. They get old over time.
Good luck with that.
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Old 07/26/2012, 04:26 PM   #38 (permalink)
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Good luck with that.
Thanks!
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Old 08/16/2012, 01:29 PM   #39 (permalink)
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You lost me on this. Are you saying that there are no open source drivers? Or are you saying that most drivers are not open source? I believe that only one of those statements is true (hint, there are a lot of open source drivers).




Haven't used Jelly Bean yet, but the mulitasking in ICS is not that good at all. It is a step above Gingerbread but that is not saying much. It is definitely not webOS good. I don't know if I can even say that it is just "good enough". I know that I don't like it because you can't close the app you are currently on, which is annoying. It has a prettier interface for displaying running tasks (except the one you are on) and you can swipe left or right to close those tasks, but that is about it for improvements.
HTC, Samsung, LG etc. don't formally release their drivers for their hardware on the phone. Its why many custom ROM like Cyanogen mod's you often lose features when you flash android devices like 4G and camera.

And i'm not going to get into this WebOS multi-tasking vs. Android...don't know exactly what you might be doing on your phone that android multitasking is "bad"

I've used both and cards is just a UI paradigm...it does nothing different than my Evo 4G LTE. I can swipe my card up and it closes the task.

But enjoy WebOS...the future is bright.
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