webOS Nation Forums >  webOS Discussion >  Open webOS General Discussion > Will Open WebOS actually be installable on a Pre?
Will Open WebOS actually be installable on a Pre?
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Old 07/07/2012, 04:54 AM   #41 (permalink)
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Enyo file picker works fine on my Pre 3, so that is definetly not missing.
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Old 07/07/2012, 07:23 AM   #42 (permalink)
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I'm not even going to speculate on the performance possibilities -- will Open webOS target now hardware, or hardware that was top of the line 6 months ago, or hardware that will be new 6 months from now? We don't know. Will the software overall perform better? We don't know. We all have this speculation in the community, that bringing a modern webKit into the equation will automatically make things better, that bringing a newer V8 into the equation will automatically make things better, but none of this has been proven, in fact, I think we've proven then it's a resounding "maybe".

webOS 3.0.4 brought with it a major upgrade in the Node V8 engine, and had some huge performance improvements, but it also had a lot of other adjustments particularly involving the use of dual core optimizations, that may or may not have covered all of that performance improvement. There's a brand spanking new QTwebKit browser in the files section here, that has no obvious improvements to speed of things.

SO, I think that a lot of performance issues that we have right now, are involving memory and a lot of places where there are very complex processes, even for things that seem quite simple. My favorite case for this, is that it takes my Pre3 approximately 4 hours to login to Skype, counting the time from hitting "Online" to having my entire buddy list synced to current statuses. There's a crapton of stuff going on, and it's definitely being done in somewhere real close to the least efficient way possible.

Hopefully, right from the get go, we will see design improvements that eliminate things like that. If not, we will need to make them. It needs to be done, because although we can continue throwing more and more hardware at things, the average mobile device still only has 512MB RAM, maybe 1024MB for the bigger stuff. I don't think I've heard of anything with 1.5G or 2G RAM (maybe the S3? someone told me it was "2 gig", but they weren't clear if they meant CPU speed or memory) . The other mobile operating systems basically spend all their processing time housekeeping for a single running user app, and whatever background services they perform, and are otherwise asleep. webOS never pauses or halts execution of a program (except, bizarrely, the web browser when you open a new window in the background) at any point, which leads us even more so into the lags and jitters, as well as the crushingly low battery lifetime that we get with our webOS devices.

We just don't know, at all, how big of a change Open webOS is going to be from webOS 2 and 3. We're mostly pretty sure that it will all be based on the same technology - V8 and WebKit with some sprinklings of QT and other possibly native codes. Will any of what we currently have in webOS 2 and 3 be there? I don't know. I hope that everything is getting a major revamp.
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Old 07/31/2012, 07:59 PM   #43 (permalink)
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NOPE GUESS NOT

/THREAD

...

seriously though, i'm just going to hold out with my pre 2 until there are a list of devices to choose from for which open webos can be compiled. i don't see the announcement as all that surprising; realistically, the devices out now are aging & i'd rather them focus their efforts on making sure the few of us that do want to use webOS on their future phone have the best possible experience. I had a similar conversation with someone when saab went under; "my car's not going to disappear is it?"... It's not the end.
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Old 08/01/2012, 07:58 AM   #44 (permalink)
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I couldn't care less about it running on older phones. The only reason I'm using a pre 2 is precisely because there is no webOS on newer hardware on my carrier. If open webOS runs on newer devices, than I have no use for it on a pre 2.

My biggest question is more about the compatibility of the current palm profile and the app catalog. Will open WebOS connect with the current app catalog? If so, will I have to repurchase apps, or will my current profile carry over? Just how is this migration to open webOS going to work from that perspective? And how will this all fit in with HP's cloud strategy, if at all?
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Old 08/01/2012, 08:02 AM   #45 (permalink)
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I couldn't care less about it running on older phones. The only reason I'm using a pre 2 is precisely because there is no webOS on newer hardware on my carrier. If open webOS runs on newer devices, than I have no use for it on a pre 2.

My biggest question is more about the compatibility of the current palm profile and the app catalog. Will open WebOS connect with the current app catalog? If so, will I have to repurchase apps, or will my current profile carry over? Just how is this migration to open webOS going to work from that perspective? And how will this all fit in with HP's cloud strategy, if at all?
I bet the app store is closed within six months so that will not be an issue. Even if you can re-down the apps, what are the chances they would work on the device you have?
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Old 08/01/2012, 09:17 AM   #46 (permalink)
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I bet the app store is closed within six months so that will not be an issue. Even if you can re-down the apps, what are the chances they would work on the device you have?
What makes you think this?


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Old 08/01/2012, 09:28 AM   #47 (permalink)
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What makes you think this?


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That the app store will stay open? Well at this stage what use do HP have for it?
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Old 08/01/2012, 11:41 AM   #48 (permalink)
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That the app store will stay open? Well at this stage what use do HP have for it?
Well assuming what was said last year... the app store is almost pure profit for HP... If Open webOS actually makes it onto devices, there may be a new pool of users.

Also, if ACL actually comes out and works, depending on how that is structured more revenue stream through the app cat.

I am not claiming either of the above to be a windfall for HP, but for the money they are currently paying to OS webOS, they can find staff for much less to manage the app cat somewhere in their massive international organization.
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Old 08/01/2012, 11:47 AM   #49 (permalink)
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Well assuming what was said last year... the app store is almost pure profit for HP... If Open webOS actually makes it onto devices, there may be a new pool of users.

...

but for the money they are currently paying to OS webOS, they can find staff for much less to manage the app cat somewhere in their massive international organization.
Is there any evidence for this though? I find it hard to believe that dedicating a core team with reasonable resources to creating a standalone open-source OS - currently with no hint of an app cat or any other cloud services, OR devices - is more costly than keeping cloud services, app cat, developer relations, and so on for a commercially available OS with close to no users.

Or have I missed something? I'm not going to pretend I know everything there is about current Open webOS details, and anyone who knows me knows I'm a webOS cynic now, but I'm always genuinely happy to be proven wrong where users' and developers' livelihood is concerned.
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Old 08/01/2012, 12:00 PM   #50 (permalink)
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Is there any evidence for this though? I find it hard to believe that dedicating a core team with reasonable resources to creating a standalone open-source OS - currently with no hint of an app cat or any other cloud services, OR devices - is more costly than keeping cloud services, app cat, developer relations, and so on for a commercially available OS with close to no users.
That's my point they have put considerable resources into Open Source... In the future they could use current employees (as in already full time staff servicing other areas as well) to maintain webOS resources (app cat and cloud) for whatever small amount of profit they would get.
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Old 08/01/2012, 12:03 PM   #51 (permalink)
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my guestimation will be that most of their eggs will be in the enyo2 basket seeing as those apps will run on android and ios etc, hopefully im wrong.
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Old 08/01/2012, 12:04 PM   #52 (permalink)
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That's my point they have put considerable resources into Open Source... In the future they could use current employees (as in already full time staff servicing other areas as well) to maintain webOS resources (app cat and cloud) for whatever small amount of profit they would get.
Again where's the evidence? To call the resources dedicated to webOS 'considerable' seems a misnomer seeing as it was created after a large part of the staff were fired, and seeing as I can't find anything to suggest there will be any cloud services for it. There's no proof that the app cat even turns a profit for them. Running all those servers and co-ordinating with SAPs wasn't cheap last time I checked.

EDIT: i missed that you said something about there being evidence for app cat profit last year. Do you have a link? I'd like to check it out for myself.
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Old 08/01/2012, 12:05 PM   #53 (permalink)
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That the app store will stay open? Well at this stage what use do HP have for it?
to be fair "this stage" is pretty much the same stage as 6 months ago, or days after they binned everything hardware wise.
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Old 08/01/2012, 12:34 PM   #54 (permalink)
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EDIT: i missed that you said something about there being evidence for app cat profit last year. Do you have a link? I'd like to check it out for myself.
Find the info from where Meg announced OS webOS. It was in that audio.
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Old 08/01/2012, 12:41 PM   #55 (permalink)
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Find the info from where Meg announced OS webOS. It was in that audio.
In my opinion her words are worth no more than any other HP CEO's, but even if it was, I don't think that constitutes proof. I know of no publicly available figures that show this, but if I'm shown some I'll feel appeased.

I assume that she must have gotten this from somewhere so I'll do some research and see what I can dig up myself. I'll also check out the audio announcement as you suggest.
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Old 08/01/2012, 01:04 PM   #56 (permalink)
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Again where's the evidence? To call the resources dedicated to webOS 'considerable' seems a misnomer seeing as it was created after a large part of the staff were fired, and seeing as I can't find anything to suggest there will be any cloud services for it. There's no proof that the app cat even turns a profit for them. Running all those servers and co-ordinating with SAPs wasn't cheap last time I checked.

EDIT: i missed that you said something about there being evidence for app cat profit last year. Do you have a link? I'd like to check it out for myself.
Here's a list of the jobs currently posted on webosjobs.com (go there and click "Search" to see them yourself)

webOS-Senior Interaction DesignerFull-time

webOS- Sr. Cloud Services ArchitectureFull-time

webOS- Sr Linux Software Engineer (Graphics)Full-time

webOS- Software Infrastructure Tools / Release EngineerFull-time

webOS- Software Engineer QAFull-time

webOS- Senior Visual DesignerFull-time

webOS- Intern Position for Cloud Service Customer Quality Shanghai TeamPart-time

webOS- Intern Position for Cloud Service Customer Quality Shanghai TeamPart-time

webOS- Enyo - Lead Architect, JavaScript/HTML5 FrameworkFull-time

webOS- Enyo - Engineer, JavaScript/HTML5 FrameworkFull-time

webOS- Enyo - Architect, JavaScript/HTML5 FrameworkFull-time

WebOS- Director, Systems Software EngineeringFull-time

WebOS- Cloud Service Test EngineerFull-time

WebOS- Cloud Service Automation Test EngineerFull-time

webOS- Visual DesignerFull-time

webOS Senior Qt EngineerFull-time

webOS Interaction DesignerFull-time

webOS Cloud Service Senior Software DesignerFull-time

WebOS Cloud Service Senior Software DesignerFull-time

webOS Cloud Service Lead Front-End DeveloperFull-time

webOS - Sr. Web DeveloperFull-time

Cloud Systems ManagerFull-time
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Old 08/01/2012, 01:09 PM   #57 (permalink)
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Here's a list of the jobs currently posted on webosjobs.com (go there and click "Search" to see them yourself)

webOS-Senior Interaction DesignerFull-time

webOS- Sr. Cloud Services ArchitectureFull-time

webOS- Sr Linux Software Engineer (Graphics)Full-time

webOS- Software Infrastructure Tools / Release EngineerFull-time

... etc ...
Once you take out the enyo/irrelevant jobs, and hire all these people, you still have a fraction of the original workforce. Plus I imagine a good chunk of these, if not all, are for Open webOS, which tells us nothing about the future of the existing catalog - which is what I'm concerned about.

So yeah, I take your point that they are starting to contribute more resources to open webOS, which is great. I just don't see how this relates to the existing platform, and the fact that it is very slowly turning into a money pit.

EDIT:

Quote:
go there and click "Search" to see them yourself
lol you really think I don't check the webOS jobs site regularly? I'm a cynic but I'm also jobless :-P
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