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Will Open webOS ever come out?
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Old 06/17/2012, 06:05 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Yes, read that article when it came out.
Afterwards, HP staff indicated they are still on track to release openWebOS. Also others reported that Enyo was a cross platform tool to develop apps and not specifically related to openWebOS.
The multiple sources are anonymous so unclear as to whether the skeptics are inside the company or those who left. My guess it is primarily those who left for other platforms or were laid off.
Whitman indicated a 3-5 year plan for webOS. Earlier this year whats his name (someone remind me) who was on the board and key to Netscape original invention, felt it would take 3-5 years for internet infrastructure to be able to handle web vs apps although he thought it was going in that direction

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Old 06/17/2012, 06:48 PM   #22 (permalink)
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WebOS is 3 years old.
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Old 06/17/2012, 07:44 PM   #23 (permalink)
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WebOS is 3 years old.
A 3 -5 year plan beginning with 2012 open sourcing of webOS.

edit: I think we may find a FAQ section useful, including source links to Whitman interviews and openWebOS blog posts and openWebOS timetable (also perhaps the andreeson interviews), if someone wants to create one, would be great
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Old 06/17/2012, 08:03 PM   #24 (permalink)
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A 3 -5 year plan beginning with 2012 open sourcing of webOS.

edit: I think we may find a FAQ section useful, including source links to Whitman interviews and openWebOS blog posts and openWebOS timetable (also perhaps the andreeson interviews), if someone wants to create one, would be great
3 to 5 years from open source? Somebody somewhere is living a fairytale land.
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Old 06/17/2012, 08:13 PM   #25 (permalink)
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3 to 5 years from open source? Somebody somewhere is living a fairytale land.
Maybe. Tech famously unpredictable. She may be going on the fact that startups usually take 3-5 years and the open version of webOS is certainly a startup. She may be going on the long time it took for mozilla firefox to become successful.
There was an amazingly interesting article about Steve Jobs the middle years when apple was flailing and Steve was out creating and funding Pixar which in its early years was flailing and unprofitable. The journalist seemed to think the years of failure were the most important, somehow setting up for the Apple comeback. I think the article was in Fortune or Fast Company, can't remember (google it). In tech for sure it is hard to predict.
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Old 06/17/2012, 08:41 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Maybe. Tech famously unpredictable. She may be going on the fact that startups usually take 3-5 years and the open version of webOS is certainly a startup. She may be going on the long time it took for mozilla firefox to become successful.
There was an amazingly interesting article about Steve Jobs the middle years when apple was flailing and Steve was out creating and funding Pixar which in its early years was flailing and unprofitable. The journalist seemed to think the years of failure were the most important, somehow setting up for the Apple comeback. I think the article was in Fortune or Fast Company, can't remember (google it). In tech for sure it is hard to predict.
You are comparing Pixar to WebOS? Jobs sold the hardware business but not before starting his own animation division and did commercials and effects for Tropicana, Listerine, Life Savers and Terminator 2: Judgment Day.

In 1990 he sold the hardware company and then made a $26 million 3 picture deal with Disney. By 1994 Toy Story was released and the rest is history. Sure he put money into Pixar, but it was a success. HP spent billions on WebOS devices and it failed. The WebOS devision isn't going into the movie business.

HP couldn't even find a buyer for WebOS and is now trying the open source route after being in the marketplace for over 3 years.

Anyone who thinks this is some smart business path is mistaken.

Meg Whitman won't even be there 3 to 5 years from now.

Firefox is a supplement to Windows and Mac OS and requires no company to make hardware to run it.

Apples and oranges all the way around here.

Steve Jobs wasn't hardware or software, he was throwing out things that weren't profitable and moving into areas that were.

He wasn't afraid to dump the 3.5 floppy drive first. He also dumped the internal modem as examples.

WebOS is a casualty of failure.

Last edited by rnld; 06/17/2012 at 08:51 PM. Reason: added
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Old 06/17/2012, 09:09 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Whatever Dude. You might like reading the article.


Time will tell what happens here.


Edit: according to the article, tthere was a period of time when pixar was losing money before jobs rethought and rebranded it.
Rome wasn't built in a day.
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Old 06/17/2012, 09:41 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Whatever Dude. You might like reading the article.


Time will tell what happens here.


Edit: according to the article, tthere was a period of time when pixar was losing money before jobs rethought and rebranded it.
Rome wasn't built in a day.
The reality is that WebOS is not Rome in this scenario.

But you are right. Time will tell what happens. Hopefully the 3rd time is a charm. At this point, it looks like a city that Mayor McCheese is running in which Rome has yet to decide weather or not to turn into a parking lot or build a factory.

The whatever dude was a nice touch.
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Old 06/17/2012, 09:55 PM   #29 (permalink)
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WebOS is not going to be a mainstream in anyway. It is always going to be what it is now. Just barely gasping for life and only supported by the limited few still here to keep it head above water. 3-5 years is about right for it to be kicked around and fiddled with until it finally withers away. In 3-5 years no one will even care anymore about an operating system that's been misused and abused by its owners and developers for quick pocket change and never really taken seriously, ever. 3-5 years that's how long it'll take for the last ones to finally get over its demise and realise what others knew 6-8 years earlier.

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Old 06/17/2012, 10:12 PM   #30 (permalink)
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The reality is that WebOS is not Rome in this scenario.

But you are right. Time will tell what happens. Hopefully the 3rd time is a charm. At this point, it looks like a city that Mayor McCheese is running in which Rome has yet to decide weather or not to turn into a parking lot or build a factory.

The whatever dude was a nice touch.
Thanks, appreciate your sense of humor.
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Old 06/17/2012, 10:29 PM   #31 (permalink)
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WebOS is not going to be a mainstream in anyway. It is always going to be what it is now. Just barely gasping for life and only supported by the limited few still here to keep it head above water. 3-5 years is about right for it to be kicked around and fiddled with until it finally withers away. In 3-5 years no one will even care anymore about an operating system that's been misused and abused by its owners and developers for quick pocket change and never really taken seriously, ever. 3-5 years that's how long it'll take for the last ones to finally get over its demise and realise what others knew 6-8 years earlier.

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That sounds more like a prophecy than an actual analysis.

Until open webOS gets released and the results of whatever partnerships HP has been working on are revealed in the next couple months I don't see how else you can make such a statement with confidence. Is Balooz also among the prophets?
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Old 06/17/2012, 10:45 PM   #32 (permalink)
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Balooz maybe be thinking profits.

HP has had a long successful run selling computers, none of them using their own OS. Why they need their own OS now that they are out of the mobile phone business is a mystery.
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Old 06/17/2012, 11:28 PM   #33 (permalink)
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That sounds more like a prophecy than an actual analysis.

Until open webOS gets released and the results of whatever partnerships HP has been working on are revealed in the next couple months I don't see how else you can make such a statement with confidence. Is Balooz also among the prophets?
analysis of over the last three years of what the operating system has been through already. Prophecy doubtful but we'll see in three to five years. I mean Android made it from beginning as a open source, but webOS did not, and after all the missteps and misuse it has gone through I think its going to always make people shy away from it, and think to themselves' hellll no I remember the last time we tried to devote time and effort into developing for them. It was disastrous. I'm all for the webOS , it is by far the best of the bunch, I just can't see anyone taking it as seriously as it so deserved, now it seems its the laughing stock of the mobile operating systems, for good reasons of being so mishandled. As far as partnerships go, highly unlikely, considering all the firing then hiring then firing of the webOS team. It seems they just want to pawn it off for the homebrew community to design and build on the cheap. I think it might have just been to much up and downs that it will not have a chance to ever catch on again like it so deserves (d) . I do indeed plan on hanging in there myself and hope for the best I just have a feeling its past its prime, that never actually shined.


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Old 06/18/2012, 12:57 AM   #34 (permalink)
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Balooz maybe be thinking profits.

HP has had a long successful run selling computers, none of them using their own OS. Why they need their own OS now that they are out of the mobile phone business is a mystery.
Selling PC's with someone else's OS on it is not that profitable for them at this point - I think they make something like 5% profit on PC sales? They need a way to get better margin on their hardware and mobile devices is where the nice margins, growth and profit potential is going to be concentrated over the next few years.

They backed away from webOS to bet on Windows 8 and swore off phones entirely, only to have Microsoft decide they're going to be doing their own tablets. The close partner who they were depending on to grow in that market is now about to become a competitor. Time for plan B, and what can they do? Go Android like everyone else? Nope. Buy RIM and try BB 10? Don't have the cash. Seems their best bet is to get Open webOS out there, give it all the support they can, and hope something good happens. What else can they really do?
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Old 06/18/2012, 01:22 AM   #35 (permalink)
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Selling PC's with someone else's OS on it is not that profitable for them at this point - I think they make something like 5% profit on PC sales? They need a way to get better margin on their hardware and mobile devices is where the nice margins, growth and profit potential is going to be concentrated over the next few years.

They backed away from webOS to bet on Windows 8 and swore off phones entirely, only to have Microsoft decide they're going to be doing their own tablets. The close partner who they were depending on to grow in that market is now about to become a competitor. Time for plan B, and what can they do? Go Android like everyone else? Nope. Buy RIM and try BB 10? Don't have the cash. Seems their best bet is to get Open webOS out there, give it all the support they can, and hope something good happens. What else can they really do?
Are you saying that windows takes the lion's share of the cost of a PC?

How do they amortize the cost of buying Palm and the cost of the massive giveaways on the Touchpad? This doesn't even include the cost of advertising, etc. The wholesale price of a $99 Touch pad was no more than $70 not including the costs of getting units to retailers. It was a bloodbath.

I would be shocked if they got rid of their top designers, went open source just to relaunch WebOS to the tablet market. That would be a huge waste of time and resources.
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Old 06/18/2012, 01:30 AM   #36 (permalink)
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Balooz maybe be thinking profits.

HP has had a long successful run selling computers, none of them using their own OS. Why they need their own OS now that they are out of the mobile phone business is a mystery.
Actually, HP had quite some spectacular failures with their own Unix operating system as well. Although I think commercially it was about as successful as any other Unix of it's time was, everyone I know that used one hated using them.
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Old 06/18/2012, 04:29 AM   #37 (permalink)
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analysis of over the last three years of what the operating system has been through already. Prophecy doubtful but we'll see in three to five years. I mean Android made it from beginning as a open source, but webOS did not, and after all the missteps and misuse it has gone through I think its going to always make people shy away from it, and think to themselves' hellll no I remember the last time we tried to devote time and effort into developing for them. It was disastrous. I'm all for the webOS , it is by far the best of the bunch, I just can't see anyone taking it as seriously as it so deserved, now it seems its the laughing stock of the mobile operating systems, for good reasons of being so mishandled. As far as partnerships go, highly unlikely, considering all the firing then hiring then firing of the webOS team. It seems they just want to pawn it off for the homebrew community to design and build on the cheap. I think it might have just been to much up and downs that it will not have a chance to ever catch on again like it so deserves (d) . I do indeed plan on hanging in there myself and hope for the best I just have a feeling its past its prime, that never actually shined.


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Thats because webOS isn't open source yet... and with different OEMs having different OS lined up when Google pull the plug on open source Android, now they have bought Motorola. webOS which is already a developed OS will be there for OEMs to take advantage of. Google have promised to keep Android open source for the next 5 years, that to me as an OEM would start ringing alram bells... what happens after 5 years? What are we going to put on are phones if Google close Android? Are we going to have to pay millions of $ to Google for? Why not just start planning for the future now by releasing a few Open webOS phones while still trying to milk the Android machine?

Samsung - Tizen
Sony - Rumoured own OS like PS VIta
Nokia - Microsoft
Apple - Apple
Motorola - Android
RiM - Blackberry (they'll make it last as long as possible)

They are the major ones but what about the rest? (thats my future predictions btw)

Their are still many other OEMs that make money from selling phones like:

HTC
LG
Huawei
ZTE
Panasonic (only a few but still)
Sharp
Toshibia

What's everyone's thoughts on my ideas / predictions?
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Old 06/18/2012, 08:06 AM   #38 (permalink)
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Are you saying that windows takes the lion's share of the cost of a PC?
No, not at all. I'm just pointing out that selling PC's is not very profitable for HP. It generates a lot of money simply because of the sheer volume, and as the growth of mobile computing threatens their ability to sustain those volumes they need to get themselves a strong foothold in mobile so other companies don't end up eating their lunch. Think about the companies that didn't successfully navigate the jump from film photography to digital photography, or from desktop word processors to desktop computers. The rise of smartphones and tablets is that kind of transition all over again, and HP needs to act strategically or we'll end up talking about them in the past tense a few years from now. Their printing business is already slowing because people are printing less because they can carry copies of what they need on a mobile device.
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How do they amortize the cost of buying Palm and the cost of the massive giveaways on the Touchpad? This doesn't even include the cost of advertising, etc. The wholesale price of a $99 Touch pad was no more than $70 not including the costs of getting units to retailers. It was a bloodbath.
I don't know the best way for them to deal with that. But an even bigger bloodbath is coming if they don't rethink their mobile strategy.
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I would be shocked if they got rid of their top designers, went open source just to relaunch WebOS to the tablet market. That would be a huge waste of time and resources.
This is not all some carefully calculated master plan by HP. Circumstances are changing in ways they did not anticipate, and they need to react accordingly. If they don't make a successful leap to mobile, it will be game over for them in a few years. People are using their PC's, laptops and printers less, and so they will be buying less. HP therefore NEEDS to make themselves a lead provider of what people will be buying more of, and that will be smartphones and tablets, cloud services(HP is already trying to make a big play there),and infrastructure.They got badly burned on mobile hardware with webOS, pivoted to bet on windows 8, only to find that Microsoft wants to be more like Apple and so will be competing with them. HP had better be looking for a backup plan right about now, and I'm saying giving good support to open webOS could be a good foundation for that backup plan.
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Old 06/18/2012, 09:23 AM   #39 (permalink)
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Further to my post above, let me put down some ideas on what I think HP's new mobile plan should look like:

1) BUY OPENMOBILE (and try not to overpay for it like you tend to do). Put an end to the "we're working with HP", "we need assistance from the webOS team to optimize performance", and the distractions to the effort that come from them having to hedge their bets with other operating systems like Tizen. Buy them outright, bring them into your offices (there are plenty of empty desks available from what I hear), and job number 1 becomes getting ACL for webOS running at the promised 95% performance level. When that's done, then they can go back to working on the ACL for Tizen. This will solve the app gap problem for webOS devices, and allow HP to earn revenue from any other up and coming operating systems that might want to try and make it in the market.

2) Make HP ACL available for current webOS distributions as a download in the App store. Most of us will gladly pay for it, and you might want to charge for it to offset the costs of support to users.

3) Get Open webOS out there as promised by September, and make sure HP ACL is available for it as well on day one. Continue building up your webOS team and have them play strong leadership and contributory roles in Open webOS development as it goes forward.

4) Make tech resources available from within HP's webOS team to provide tech assistance to the hardcore developers and hackers out there that want to work on their custom versions and ports of it to devices running other operating systems. This gets webOS on new hardware without you having to invest much of anything. webOS Internals, Phoenix Devices and whoever else wants to make a serious effort at doing this should be your new BFF's.

5) Work closely with another manufacturer to get new webOS devices made. There are rumours that there is interest out there, but you need to make the barrier to entry as low as possible, and sell the benefits of webOS as opposed to Android as well as you possibly can. Don't try to do hardware for it yourselves right now - you weren't able to do that right in far better times, and now you're short on cash and lost a lot of talent that you need to take the time to replace before you'll be able to do something really cutting edge for webOS. Plus you need someone who still has a good relationship with the carriers to be the one pushing this.

So what do you think? Should I send HP a bill for $2 million, or 2 cents?
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Old 06/18/2012, 10:33 AM   #40 (permalink)
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Thats because webOS isn't open source yet... and with different OEMs having different OS lined up when Google pull the plug on open source Android, now they have bought Motorola. webOS which is already a developed OS will be there for OEMs to take advantage of. Google have promised to keep Android open source for the next 5 years, that to me as an OEM would start ringing alram bells... what happens after 5 years? What are we going to put on are phones if Google close Android? Are we going to have to pay millions of $ to Google for? Why not just start planning for the future now by releasing a few Open webOS phones while still trying to milk the Android machine?

Samsung - Tizen
Sony - Rumoured own OS like PS VIta
Nokia - Microsoft
Apple - Apple
Motorola - Android
RiM - Blackberry (they'll make it last as long as possible)

They are the major ones but what about the rest? (thats my future predictions btw)

Their are still many other OEMs that make money from selling phones like:

HTC
LG
Huawei
ZTE
Panasonic (only a few but still)
Sharp
Toshibia

What's everyone's thoughts on my ideas / predictions?
Just to add on to the excellent point made... This Poll: http://forums.webosnation.com/webos-...s-devices.html closes in about one week.

I agree that all the companies manufacturing Android hardware can not be satisfied eating crumbs in the mobile market while Apple and Samsung hog the buffet. And some of the malcontents have the resources to support development of hardware for Open Source webOS and the drive to patiently build up market share even if it runs at a loss for a few years.

The mobile landscape is growing and even if Google doesn't make Android proprietary and enact licensing the current state of the market is unsatisfactory to a whole slew of large corporations that are an "also ran" behind Samsung. They necessarily must adopt alternate strategies to compete in mobile or yield the field.
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