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webOS still has a chance.
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Old 06/13/2012, 10:16 AM   #21 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by jrsharp70 View Post
No apps = no platform

Unless the open webOS project means that devs can simply port apps to webOS, there will never be an ecosystem, and thus no hope. Period. End of story. Because no one is going to devote time to build an app that won't make any return on investment.

Debbie Downer, I know, but it's wake-up time
I can go to any web page and add it to my launcher as if it were an app. That's the future of the mobile web. Mozilla has it right with B2G, making that kind of web based deployment to phone even more seemless. WebOS NEEDS to implement and support Mozilla's WebAPI as it becomes a W3C standard.
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Old 06/13/2012, 10:25 AM   #22 (permalink)
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I can go to any web page and add it to my launcher as if it were an app. That's the future of the mobile web. Mozilla has it right with B2G, making that kind of web based deployment to phone even more seemless. WebOS NEEDS to implement and support Mozilla's WebAPI as it becomes a W3C standard.
Well can you both work together, B2G and webOS, for the good of all of us? I've read some tweets from some of the HP webOS staff that they tried to work with B2G and have B2G work with them and apparently Mozilla rebuffed webOS. So if you know B2G staff, please have them reach out to webOS so we can all get better choices.
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Old 06/13/2012, 10:35 AM   #23 (permalink)
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I wouldn't compare voice dial to siri. It's more akin to Just Type, er...Just Speak. It seemed like a gimmick at first, but it really does seem like the first step in reducing our depenency on typing. I don't see how anyone could knock siri, especially the webOS crowd. Obviously you wouldn't want to compose a private email/text in public, but that's why apple didn't ditch their virtual keyboard altogether.

I hope open webOS gets their own version of siri, and the ACL. That would be a good start in the comeback story...
I'm not saying I won't use voice command... I just realize it isn't the only input method needed. That will not change, ever, so far as I can see. If you dictate a business email, then check for errors and have to correct them with a virtual keyboard which causes errors... That is just too much and it ruins the time efficiency of the task.

Would I put my phone to my face and say "Dial Pizza Store" or "Call Home" or "Navigate to 500 Anystreet Nexttown" or any number of mundane tasks? Yes.

Will I compose a 15,000 word story by dictation or an email to Docs to Go demanding a refund because they rely on virtual keyboard for a spell checker and I can't compose long documents realistically without a physical keyboard AND spell check support or a forum post of this length? No.
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Old 06/13/2012, 10:44 AM   #24 (permalink)
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Well can you both work together, B2G and webOS, for the good of all of us? I've read some tweets from some of the HP webOS staff that they tried to work with B2G and have B2G work with them and apparently Mozilla rebuffed webOS. So if you know B2G staff, please have them reach out to webOS so we can all get better choices.
Yeah, I think I remember seeing some tweets from @twtomcat about that a while back...

Unfortunately I don't have those kind of connections. However, regardless of whether or not Mozilla was receptive to the webOS team wanting to influence their API development, the final WebAPI that does materialize and presumed accepted by W3C, should be an open standard that is free to be implemented by any vendor.

The webOS team needs to lead in incorporation of new, open, web technologies, even if those technologies stem from a competitor. Heck, especially if they come from a competitor. It can only serve to increase attractiveness to developers and open more doors through which applications may arrive.
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Old 06/13/2012, 01:32 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Palm errors?

=> Launch in CDMA - hard to use in other carrier
=> Launch in few countries and forget other languages (portuguese, for example! )
=> Launch with high value

The Android sucess is not because "the S.O." is great but; yes, because you can find devices with all prices.


Best Regards...
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Old 06/13/2012, 02:39 PM   #26 (permalink)
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I think the major problem that messed up any chance for webos is performance. Not that many people can deal with the sluggishness of the operating system and to tell someone to patch and overclock is madness.
Madness? Really?

Looked at all your posts since you joined a month ago and they all seem to tout the ipad. If you like the ipad, thats fine. But why are you here still?
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Old 06/13/2012, 03:08 PM   #27 (permalink)
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webOS still has a chance. (I want to share with you an article I wrote today. Keeping us positive if the best way to provide good ideas to the future of webOS)

In the years before the smartphones multitouch era initiated by Apple re- inventing the phone, there were a clear worlds smartphone market share between top two , Palm OS with the Treos and RIM with the Blackberries. The fight for the first spot was just between this two mobile giants.

After that, so proud of what they have done , none of them gave even a side eye to the reality of the smartphone market. It was 2006 the iPhone was rising its first version NO stylus NO physical keyboard. A phone to interact with you using your 5 fingers instead. Called a MULTITOUCH screen phone.

Google decided to enter the mobile and bought Android Inc in 2005. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Android_(operating_system) Google announced the first Android smartphone the T-Mobile G1. Year 2008, and with physical keyboard. Two years after the launch of the first iPhone.

February 2009 HTC Magic was the World's Second Android Phone with virtual keyboard. HTC Magic is the World's Second Android Phone - HotHardware

In June 2009 T-Mobile second Android phone was the My Touch 3G with a virtual keyboard and matching the iPhone 3GS. T-Mobile Will Drop Its Second Android Phone, The myTouch 3G, This August For $199. | TechCrunch

Palm waited 2,5 years to react after no one wanted the Treos anymore and launched the Palm Pre in June 6, 2009. The Palm foolishness in keeping making the Pre , Pre Plus.Pre 2 and Pre 3 as the Treos but sliders was a tremendous mistake. The only difference between the Treos and the Pres was the OS, the Treos with Palm OS of the touch era and the Pres webOS of the multitouch era.

I insist the foolishness of keeping the physical keyboard and not making an slate smartphone form factor hardware was a great failure.

It happens in marketing when you are blind and you don`t see what the consumer wants You can launch a 100 times a phone with the same form factor pattern and you are getting shot yourself (literally) a 100 times over and over again.

HP big marketing professional staff division did not see it coming , the team did not look the past and the present to project a better future.

However webOS had some bugs and issues on its first versions. Updates via OTA came several times and fixed them.

And the foolishness continued with the Touchpad, launching with less hardware features than the market, and HP was offering it at the same price . An inferior plastic shape look for the world best mobile OS, webOS. The results, the device was took away with a price drop to $99.- and the end of manufacturing webOS mobile devices, at all. August 2011.


webOS still has a chance.

webOS slate smartphone.

A company doesn`t need to launch several devices models to get a spot in the mobile market.

A slate smartphone with the latest hardware technology and a software with better and more features than the today competitors could bring out, is enough.

After all you will need a prototype to demo the webOS 1.0 open source to worldwide customers.

Make a market test and sell it online on yours and via retailers stores ,but unlocked to work with most carriers worldwide.

But remember consumers wanted and want high ended smartphones to make them use the 5 fingers on multi touch screens, at least most of them.

Apple continues to sue over and over again Samsung, HTC and any android who threat its market pie share. Apple is suing Samsung for old and new devices releases, and what ever it comes out and will not stop.

That is an advantage webOS will have in September 2012, when HP releases webOS open source 1.0. Samsung, HTC and android mobile makers devices will opt for an alternative to avoid these unlikely legal battles that don`t have an end.

Related post:

http://forums.webosnation.com/webos-...n-go-them.html
Well no.
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Old 06/13/2012, 03:11 PM   #28 (permalink)
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the fact that there are like 50 or 100 people on a web forum that don't want what the rest of the world wants or likes (voice controls, touch keyboards, cloud services, huge choices of apps, etc) is pretty much irrelevant to having a successful platform. Fine that you don't want or need these things. Most people on the planet do want the option to have them. And if not having those things was good enough webos wouldn't have failed. Well except it's all the Best Buy Sales people fault. Don't worry a Sprint rep told me they are releasing a new webos phone next month though.
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Old 06/13/2012, 03:16 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Rnp View Post
Palm errors?

=> Launch in CDMA - hard to use in other carrier
=> Launch in few countries and forget other languages (portuguese, for example! )
=> Launch with high value

The Android sucess is not because "the S.O." is great but; yes, because you can find devices with all prices.


Best Regards...
Sorry but they launched in the U.S. and most people in the U.S. are on CDMA and are gonna replace their phone anyways on the next contract so cdma is both the most popular network and phone portability is not the biggest priority in the place they started to launch.

now yeah launching in few countries is a problem but it costs money to launch globally.

And yeah Android is a success but it's on a different model. Palm should have licened webos, an idea people here hated, but then they'd have had a hell of a lot more devices, variety of devices and users.
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Old 06/13/2012, 03:37 PM   #30 (permalink)
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I do have a touchpad with cm9 installed. No one uses it
Yes this is what it seemed like after reading a number of your posts. The people who use webOS day-to-day are a sane and balanced lot and fairly realistic about its uses.

But thanks anyway for your contribution.
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Old 06/13/2012, 03:39 PM   #31 (permalink)
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And yeah Android is a success but it's on a different model. Palm should have licened webos, an idea people here hated, but then they'd have had a hell of a lot more devices, variety of devices and users.
Just because you think that Palm should have licensed webos to other device makers --- doesn't mean that Palm could have attracted actual device makers to license webos.

Palm OS 6 is the perfect example. Just because you try to license the OS, doesn't mean you are going to find any taker.
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Old 06/13/2012, 05:09 PM   #32 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by akitayo View Post
I insist the foolishness of keeping the physical keyboard and not making an slate smartphone form factor hardware was a great failure.

It happens in marketing when you are blind and you don`t see what the consumer wants You can launch a 100 times a phone with the same form factor pattern and you are getting shot yourself (literally) a 100 times over and over again.
I'm sorry - but that's crazytalk. ;-)

While Palm was struggling, some of the most succcessful Android phones also had keyboards. And people liked Blackberries often for their high quality keyboards.
Keyboards or lack of it are clearly not the deciding factor.

I get it - you like slates. That's fine. Some people don't want keyboards anymore, some insist on physical keyboards - but I think most people don't consider it a killer argument either way.

I would also argue that having a physical keyboard was a plus for Palm. It was a distinguishing factor. If HP wouldn't have pulled the plug they probably would have offerend both - but that's water under the bridge.

People like to simplify things because that's neat and easy. But life is often more complicated and webos suffered from a long string of setbacks and mistakes and bad timings and backstabbings and some bad luck.

It wasn't just 1 thing alone. And it most certainly wasn't because the Pres had a keyboard.
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Old 06/13/2012, 07:30 PM   #33 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Sylo View Post
I wouldn't compare voice dial to siri. It's more akin to Just Type, er...Just Speak. It seemed like a gimmick at first, but it really does seem like the first step in reducing our depenency on typing. I don't see how anyone could knock siri, especially the webOS crowd. Obviously you wouldn't want to compose a private email/text in public, but that's why apple didn't ditch their virtual keyboard altogether.

I hope open webOS gets their own version of siri, and the ACL. That would be a good start in the comeback story...
I'm sure apple will sell millions of iphone because of siri. I have heard people saying how its great and also people who say they never use it. Nice to have a choice anyway and to each his own.
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Old 06/13/2012, 08:11 PM   #34 (permalink)
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The difference is the pre keyboard was not considered quality by the mass market. Keys feel stiff, cramped and aches the finger tips. The pre 3 is what the original pre should have been.

The Motorola droid came in November sporting the same hardware as the pre but was very snappy. Performance is really important.
yeah. took them a while to get the keyboard right, even the pre2 keyboard dont travel far enough
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Old 06/13/2012, 08:53 PM   #35 (permalink)
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Yeah, I think I remember seeing some tweets from @twtomcat about that a while back...

Unfortunately I don't have those kind of connections. However, regardless of whether or not Mozilla was receptive to the webOS team wanting to influence their API development, the final WebAPI that does materialize and presumed accepted by W3C, should be an open standard that is free to be implemented by any vendor.

The webOS team needs to lead in incorporation of new, open, web technologies, even if those technologies stem from a competitor. Heck, especially if they come from a competitor. It can only serve to increase attractiveness to developers and open more doors through which applications may arrive.
Yes. And both sides need to work together as large giant forces with lots of money are competing with them so perhaps we users should be emailing both to sit down and work together.
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Old 06/13/2012, 10:11 PM   #36 (permalink)
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imho, palm's and HP's only failures were in marketing, not in the imperfections of the product
(for example,I don't think a slab phone would have changed a single thing)
webos as open source will never be able to overcome this shortcoming unless it takes off like Android, which is unlikely now that Android already fills that position
I think the only hope for webos's future is to continue to offer a better operating system than anyone else. Hopefully, people and companies and developers will eventually gravitate back to what's better rather than just what's trendy.
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Old 06/13/2012, 11:25 PM   #37 (permalink)
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Just because you think that Palm should have licensed webos to other device makers --- doesn't mean that Palm could have attracted actual device makers to license webos.

Palm OS 6 is the perfect example. Just because you try to license the OS, doesn't mean you are going to find any taker.
"Just because you try to license the OS, doesn't mean you are going to find any taker."

Well yeah. That's pretty obvious that there are no guarantees. I assumed everyone understands the obvious.

Nope i don't know for sure. I just think they should have. Because at the time i believe the only available android phone was the G1 and maybe the second android phone, i forget the name, so i think they had a chance. But nope I don't know. Palm OS 6 is just one example. Android is licensed and it worked, Windows phone is licensed and it worked. Windows desktop is licensed and it works. Windows phone 7 is licensed and who knows if it will work. But i know in the time being microsoft isn't getting blamed for bad hardware, has the cushion of fees from licensing and has capital freed from designing hardware to fix and improve it's software pretty quickly. Something Webos really lacked the money to keep up with. There are no absolutes so it could fail. But that's an option for everything. What i do know is not licensing it didn't work.
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