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Old 05/31/2012, 02:10 AM   #1 (permalink)
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You have probably read Derek's article about Phoenix International Communications - there's not a lot of info anywhere about them and I haven't found a thread here either - so, who are these guys and what are they planning? I am intrigued, but (like every experienced webOS user) skeptical.
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Old 05/31/2012, 03:49 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Actually I think, that bringing WebOS to an existing device is more promising in the short to medium run, that waiting for a hardware producer to dare build a smartphone/tablet with openWebOS on it.

But if that Phoenix thing is successful will be determined by many factors, a few of them being:
1) (ofc) will they be able to bring openWebOS to existing devices
2) and if so: which devices? and how?
3) who will in the future provide services (i.e. profile, catalog, etc) for that solution? Atm it is HP, but will they invest money on the long run, if Phoenix stays the only way of bringing openWebOS to the market?
4) Apps, apps, apps. Will there be any? Will the old WebOS apps run? Will there be enough? Will they be good? Will they perform? ... etc
5) what is the business model for the Phoenix company? What do they have to do, to reach ROI? When will they win, when will they have to close down because of losses?

and so on.

As far as I see it, we can only speculate now. The idea seems sound, but there are too many other factors to deal with, to say as of yet, if they will prevail.
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Old 05/31/2012, 04:19 AM   #3 (permalink)
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I completely agree that bringing Open webOS to existing devices is a better approach than waiting for a manufacturer to take the risk and make one.
What bothers me currently though is the complete lack of information about this Phoenix thing, no names no plans, just that they need volunteers. I sure hope this is not some kid with an idea who looks for volunteers to do the work. Personally, before I'd offer my help, I'd at least like to know what exactly they're working on.
There are some devices that I can imagine are relatively good candidates for having Open webOS ported, for example the Nokia N9, it already dual boots with Android, has a somewhat open source Linux based OS, no unneeded hardware buttons.
Regarding the servers, I think webOS-Internals could step in if HP shuts everything down.
We don't know yet what exactly they're working on, but I hope Open webOS efforts won't be scattered around a bunch of separate groups and individuals.
Anyway, it's good to see interest in Open webOS, but as I said the complete lack of information makes me skeptical.
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Old 05/31/2012, 06:00 AM   #4 (permalink)
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The only info available is from http://whois.domaintools.com/phxdevices.com. Looks like a member here (Zukny) registered the domain.

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Old 05/31/2012, 06:20 AM   #5 (permalink)
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The only info available is from PhXDevices.com - Phoenix Devices. Looks like a member here (Zukny) registered the domain.

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I wanted to do a WHOIS lookup, but the site said "Maximum Daily connection limit reached. Lookup refused.", so I couldn't, so thanks!
Let's hope he or she chimes in with his or her plans!
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Old 05/31/2012, 07:51 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Before anyone does a full blown google search and starts looking up everything about me, I figured I should chime into this thread. I am the guy that bought the web domain, but am just one of many in our group.

I can't really say much to you guys at this point as the group would have my head. I did sign an NDA after all :/

That being said, I can say that there is going to be official announcements and more news about Phoenix over the next few weeks. So in due time your questions should be answered.

Last edited by Zukny; 05/31/2012 at 08:34 AM.
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Old 05/31/2012, 08:54 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Before anyone does a full blown google search and starts looking up everything about me, I figured I should chime into this thread. I am the guy that bought the web domain, but am just one of many in our group.

I can't really say much to you guys at this point as the group would have my head. I did sign an NDA after all :/

That being said, I can say that there is going to be official announcements and more news about Phoenix over the next few weeks. So in due time your questions should be answered.
Let me get this straight - you want people to volunteer their time but you want them to do it without knowing who they are work for/with?

That sets all sorts of alarm bells rings with me - I've never seen a community led project where nobody knows who the community is...

Are you saying the project can't or will not say who is running it?
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Old 05/31/2012, 09:06 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Why create this secretive club in the first place - the place to be if anyone wants to work on Open webOS is Enyo and the Open webOS repositories and Isis.

Last edited by johnnygewitter; 05/31/2012 at 09:12 AM.
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Old 05/31/2012, 09:10 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Let me get this straight - you want people to volunteer their time but you want them to do it without knowing who they are work for/with?

That sets all sorts of alarm bells rings with me - I've never seen a community led project where nobody knows who the community is...

Are you saying the project can't or will not say who is running it?
Hi CGK,

Currently we are focusing on bringing in more people to contribute to the project, while at the same time gauging the interest in the community to better predict how we will operate in the future. In due time (very soon), we will be more specific about us, our goals and intentions. Right now if you're interested, please send us an email at volunteers@phxdevices.com and we can talk about this in more detail.

I hope you understand that there are certain things I can't talk about right now, but what I can say is that the group is active and we are very positive about this—no alarm bells there.
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Old 05/31/2012, 09:14 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Hi CGK,

Currently we are focusing on bringing in more people to contribute to the project, while at the same time gauging the interest in the community to better predict how we will operate in the future. In due time (very soon), we will be more specific about us, our goals and intentions. Right now if you're interested, please send us an email at volunteers@phxdevices.com and we can talk about this in more detail.

I hope you understand that there are certain things I can't talk about right now, but what I can say is that the group is active and we are very positive about this—no alarm bells there.
This is fluff - why can't you tell us now who is involved? I have known organisations to be secretive about their strategies and plans (that is sensible and normal) but not who is running the show - How do I not know that this is simply a dual account and this is all a one man band?

Your post makes me more doubtful about what is going on - not less. If you are tell me that it's impossible at this stage to tell us who's leading the project and what the governance model is - well either it's amateur hour or this is some sort of scam.
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Old 05/31/2012, 09:22 AM   #11 (permalink)
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I hope you understand that there are certain things I can't talk about right now, but what I can say is that the group is active and we are very positive about this—no alarm bells there.
I'm just going to go ahead and say: getting evangelical about a group for which there is little to no information available is not going to go down well with the webOS community in general.

If I were in your position, I would be very hesitant to continue asking people to volunteer or contribute while you're unwilling to let anyone know the real details of what they will be committing to. I'm sure we're all excited to hear more about Phoenix, but it seems like you're already damaging your group's reputation for the sake of having a bit of patience.

I look forward to hearing what you guys are doing, and I'm happy to register my interest now, but I won't be committing to, or volunteering for, anything until full details of the project are given.
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Old 05/31/2012, 12:27 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Geez people there is only a call for VOLUNTEERS. If you don't like what you hear or don't hear then don't volunteer. What's the harm if there is some group of people that has an interest in doing something with open webOS. If you are skeptical then get out of this thread and do something better with your time. Seriously for someone to come to this thread to try to sabotage it...yes CGK...that's you. Move on. Aren't there moderators for these forums anymore? All this is is some volunteer effort, and few people have clearly stated nothing can be said but to send a personal email if interested. If not move on.

Btw I have nothing to do with this phoenix thing...just expressing my disgust at the negativity that some continually bring to these forums these days.
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Old 05/31/2012, 12:32 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Yeah I don't like the negativity. I'm sorry to Phoenix and co for that. Rest assured the true webos fan would wait and hope u are all gonna rise it up from the dead.

Thanks for yuoir efforts. Hope u get lots of interest (I'm seriously considering this).

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Old 05/31/2012, 01:01 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Yeah it's great to see people excited and wanting to bring something on the table, no doubt, but - I can only speak for myself here - I'd at least like to know what they actually want to do. At least before I volunteer for anything.
Do they want to bugfix Open webOS, add and improve features? Then what's all this with a NDA, the official repositories are accessible, open for the public and hungry for additional devs and hackers. There's not that much to do before we have all the parts anyway, except for Enyo maybe. I highly doubt they have some kind of NDA with HP and early access or anything. There aren't even any early access releases on the private forums on developer.palm.com, in fact they say there that the first beta will be the 'early access' release (I hope I didn't break my NDA by saying that here).
Do they want to develop and release a device on their own? Cool, but - good luck with that. A bunch of volunteers and maybe a few thousand $ in donations won't be enough for that. From the top of my head I only know the OpenMoko and the OpenPandora projects that successfully developed and released their own devices. But we're talking about a lot of time and a lot of money here (and they weren't developed by a secret club). If it's one of these cheap Chinese Android OEM tablets with Open webOS, that's cool, too, but these things are just crap so I don't know.
Are their efforts concentrated on porting & polishing Open webOS to existing devices - more power to them! I just don't get the secrecy and the (frankly, pretty stupid) "hush I'm under NDA" talk. Just say what you want to do and then I can tell if I'm able to help. So far it's just "Hey we have this GREAT thing going but I can't tell you anything! Oh BTW could you do the work?".
I sincerely wish them good luck and I really hope for the best, but until there's some real talk I'm unimpressed.
And if I'm wrong on all accounts: I'm an ***** and I apologize in advance
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Old 05/31/2012, 01:07 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Yeah I don't like the negativity. I'm sorry to Phoenix and co for that. Rest assured the true webos fan would wait and hope u are all gonna rise it up from the dead.

Thanks for yuoir efforts. Hope u get lots of interest (I'm seriously considering this).

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The true webOS fan that runs Android on his TP...

What, exactly, are you seriously considering? That's basically my whole point.
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Old 05/31/2012, 01:14 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Yeah it's great to see people excited and wanting to bring something on the table, no doubt, but - I can only speak for myself here - I'd at least like to know what they actually want to do. At least before I volunteer for anything.
Do they want to bugfix Open webOS, add and improve features? Then what's all this with a NDA, the official repositories are accessible, open for the public and hungry for additional devs and hackers. There's not that much to do before we have all the parts anyway, except for Enyo maybe. I highly doubt they have some kind of NDA with HP and early access or anything. There aren't even any early access releases on the private forums on developer.palm.com, in fact they say there that the first beta will be the 'early access' release (I hope I didn't break my NDA by saying that here).
Do they want to develop and release a device on their own? Cool, but - good luck with that. A bunch of volunteers and maybe a few thousand $ in donations won't be enough for that. From the top of my head I only know the OpenMoko and the OpenPandora projects that successfully developed and released their own devices. But we're talking about a lot of time and a lot of money here (and they weren't developed by a secret club). If it's one of these cheap Chinese Android OEM tablets with Open webOS, that's cool, too, but these things are just crap so I don't know.
Are their efforts concentrated on porting & polishing Open webOS to existing devices - more power to them! I just don't get the secrecy and the (frankly, pretty stupid) "hush I'm under NDA" talk. Just say what you want to do and then I can tell if I'm able to help. So far it's just "Hey we have this GREAT thing going but I can't tell you anything! Oh BTW could you do the work?".
I sincerely wish them good luck and I really hope for the best, but until there's some real talk I'm unimpressed.
And if I'm wrong on all accounts: I'm an ***** and I apologize in advance
Hey...we're all idiots at one time or another in our lives, right? Is this your time, my time, who knows? In fact, If there's one person in these forums that hasn't been an ***** at least once, then they can call us all idiots and be done with us! Now I can't do that, because I've been an ***** more than once...that's as far as we need to go with counting though.

I must say that I am confused here. I've seen a couple of references indicating this Phoenix group is saying "could you do the work?". I thought I read the info on the website, and the postings here and the write up article Derek put on the front page....maybe I skimmed it but I didn't see any reference to Phoenix asking others to do work before things have been laid out and disclosed. But, my eyes might be idiots!
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Old 05/31/2012, 01:15 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Geez people there is only a call for VOLUNTEERS. If you don't like what you hear or don't hear then don't volunteer. What's the harm if there is some group of people that has an interest in doing something with open webOS. If you are skeptical then get out of this thread and do something better with your time. Seriously for someone to come to this thread to try to sabotage it...yes CGK...that's you. Move on. Aren't there moderators for these forums anymore? All this is is some volunteer effort, and few people have clearly stated nothing can be said but to send a personal email if interested. If not move on.

Btw I have nothing to do with this phoenix thing...just expressing my disgust at the negativity that some continually bring to these forums these days.
It's negativity to suggest that a project that wants volunteers but will not tell you who is running it or what the governance model is.. odd? I think it's common sense.


Compare and contrast with WebOS internals who do excellent work and it's completely clear what their aims are and who is running the show - to me that's the standard to judge a WebOS project against.
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Old 05/31/2012, 01:32 PM   #18 (permalink)
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CGK and Johnny, Read post #6. If you can't wait a few weeks for more information (or email them for more information) then by all means feel free to move on. Keep it civil in this forum. No need to start nit-picking at details that are not yet available. Thanks.
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Old 05/31/2012, 02:23 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Are webOS Internals involved in this project?
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Old 05/31/2012, 03:20 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Maybe this Phoenix group is like "The Newsies"...anybody see that musical? No? Well, it didn't do well when it came out, but it's getting a cult following and now it's on Broadway...but I digress. Can you read the headline on that paper? It says..."I'm Batman!"


The Newsies were young men and older boys who delivered the newspapers of Mr. Pulitzer and Mr. William Randolph Hearst on the streets of New York. They had a common goal, and got fired up over it (not let 'the man' stick the cost of his poor business practices onto the Newsies). They didn't have an organization, no union, hardly any resources. But they had motivation and heart to stand up and do something about the situation. A bunch of kids brought the two greatest newspaper giants to their knees because they worked hard and stood firm.

Maybe these guys/gals at Phoenix are like that...not overflowing with corporate resources, legal knowledge, or business know how...but full of ideas and vision and not sure how best to carry it out. This might create a desire to take careful steps forward. So let things develop if they can. If this is some pipe dream or some scam, let it dissolve and life just may go on.
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