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Old 12/11/2012, 09:22 PM   #101 (permalink)
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...Is India with 23 languages really worth the bother? When if you just support Spanish and Portuguese, you will cover all of Central and South America. There's poverty there too and a need for affordable phones. But a lot more cost-effective and a lot more standardized...
Don't forget French...

With Portuguese, Spanish, French and English you could most likely cover the globe as these are the languages enforced under colonialism and still used to pass information between disparate language groups in most of the developing world...

There are many African nations which use French between tribes...
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Old 12/11/2012, 10:08 PM   #102 (permalink)
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Don't forget French...

With Portuguese, Spanish, French and English you could most likely cover the globe as these are the languages enforced under colonialism and still used to pass information between disparate language groups in most of the developing world...

There are many African nations which use French between tribes...
French? Yes.

Most of Africa, and in the past also the "French Indo-China" countries like Viet Nam and Cambodia, though i'm inclined to think that nowadays those have switched to English in some ways (technology and trade), and in Cambodia, almost every educated person had died in Pol Pot's death camps back in the '70s, so they have started from scratch.

Africa is relatively easy, since in some tribes, French is the only written language, while the local dialects are only spoken and won't require spellcheck functionality

I think it's a worthy goal to add support for obscure languages to openwebOS (and later patch legacy code), but definitely not the priority. But another language to add to your list of "colonial" languages would be Russian. That would cover the whole of the former Soviet Union, and then also Bulgaria, which uses a Cyrilic charset but different spellings of words, so Bulgarians can understand quite a bit of Russian.

If we support Russian but leave off Ukrainian, support Spanish but not Catalan, and so on, we would have a chance to perfect the support of those core "colonial" languages (spellcheck, autocorrect) and be on par with Apple before moving on to the local dialects and obscure languages of the 3rd world. There is no use in being sub-par in everything, "jack of all trades and master of none". If we can perfect the classical, non-regional forms of the main languages, and not have autocorrect erase the eloquence and sophistication of the writer, in the long run, it will be worth more than supporting Gujarati or Telugu.

Those guys can have a "language pack" to download, which includes a font and a keyboard layout, later on, optional translations for system preferences apps, and if someone volunteers to translate the help app docs, that too. But spellcheck will have to wait, until the Android spellcheck dictionaries can be extracted in a few clicks and put to use by us.


Edit: I'm thinking, when it comes to major Asian languages, webOS already supports the Chinese (Han) characters (aka kanji, hanzi, hanja) including the fonts and input methods. We can also move in that direction, to support Japanese (the language of anime) and Mandarin (mainland china, "simplified chinese"). This would be reasonable.

Last edited by Remy X; 12/11/2012 at 10:29 PM.
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Old 12/12/2012, 10:30 PM   #103 (permalink)
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I think you all need to stop worrying about the languages and things like that.

Here is my vision for the best plan:

1) port webos to something

that webos running on android thing is pretty silly imo if i have a phone running android why would i wanna emulate another operating system on top of if knowing that its going to eat up resources and run slow regardless of how well you optimize it

2) Pick a cheap good quality chinese phone to buy in bulk and sell or create a "webos doctor" for said chinese phone (this is the nicest one ive seen so far)

JiaYu G3 Dual core 1G RAM kick off Unboxing system quick reviews - YouTube
Jiayu G3 MTK 6577 Dual Core Dual Simcard Dual Standby 1G RAM 4.5" IPS Screen 8MP Camera - $199.00


there are tons of these phones out there to pick from, there are even ones with qualacomm chips in them if you really dont want to port to the mediatek chipset (which really isnt that bad to start with)

I have a few, and they are not half bad if you pick the right ones based off of specs and user reviews

3) once porting is complete and people are buying phones to run the OS OPTIMIZE IT dont worry about featuers until WebOS runs buttery smooth on your device, if your OS is a memory hog and lags noone is going to wanna run it regardless of your features

4) Now you can start providing features and built in apps such as phyx maps

Thoughts?
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Old 12/12/2012, 10:41 PM   #104 (permalink)
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Exactly.

But i'm not a hardware guy, so here i focus on OS specifics and and its viability in certain markets. We shouldn't be trying to sell a half-baked OS on $80 hardware and hope that it succeeds. Success starts at home, and the alpha, beta and pre-release testing should start here, in a community that is passionate enough about webOS to not bring the phone back to the store and return it after a week, over a few bugs.

As it stands right now, openwebOS is a "hacker" product with at least a year and many ecosystem items to go before it has any chance as a consumer product, so i work on whatever is within my ability (in this case, building an independant app store to replace HP's)
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Old 12/12/2012, 10:48 PM   #105 (permalink)
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I agree given the current scenario : the important thing to do is defend the ecosystem - developers, and loyal users with a working device - that is at least an improvement to the pre 3.

the facts are the following : open os in the current reiteration is inferior to webos v.3. It would take lots of resources - gram and volunteers (which is lacking) due to reducing pool of devs willing to commit to a platform they are not sure of.
No device = no ecosystem = no revenue = no new apps fro developers. Its simple and the stupid folks at Hp / gram fail to grasp economics.

the fact that they could have released another updated pre 4 using existing webOS v3 - would have given breathing room for openos to be buildup to the level of webOS v3.
so the logical thing to do now is to get the v1 ported to a middle level phone, no bells and whistles - but with working sms, email, core apps , no synergy is ok. Right now with just 2 teams working on it officially, without any proper funding , one can only pray and hope that it will work - but given they have full time jobs, doubt any major update of the os or the porting to a existing phone will be ready within 3 - 6 months. By then we'd hear of more devs leaving, more apps defunct, and a dead webOS ecosystem.

for India - yes it has a lot of languages - but majority speak English, because its the only effective way to communicate between different language groups.
and I agree - language is important but not critical to get the baby out of the door.

Quote:
Originally Posted by d0u8l3m View Post
I think you all need to stop worrying about the languages and things like that.

Here is my vision for the best plan:

1) port webos to something

that webos running on android thing is pretty silly imo if i have a phone running android why would i wanna emulate another operating system on top of if knowing that its going to eat up resources and run slow regardless of how well you optimize it

2) Pick a cheap good quality chinese phone to buy in bulk and sell or create a "webos doctor" for said chinese phone (this is the nicest one ive seen so far)

JiaYu G3 Dual core 1G RAM kick off Unboxing system quick reviews - YouTube
Jiayu G3 MTK 6577 Dual Core Dual Simcard Dual Standby 1G RAM 4.5" IPS Screen 8MP Camera - $199.00


there are tons of these phones out there to pick from, there are even ones with qualacomm chips in them if you really dont want to port to the mediatek chipset (which really isnt that bad to start with)

I have a few, and they are not half bad if you pick the right ones based off of specs and user reviews

3) once porting is complete and people are buying phones to run the OS OPTIMIZE IT dont worry about featuers until WebOS runs buttery smooth on your device, if your OS is a memory hog and lags noone is going to wanna run it regardless of your features

4) Now you can start providing features and built in apps such as phyx maps

Thoughts?
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Old 12/12/2012, 11:08 PM   #106 (permalink)
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[snip]
for India - yes it has a lot of languages - but majority speak English, because its the only effective way to communicate between different language groups.
and I agree - language is important but not critical to get the baby out of the door.
[/snip]
Between different language groups, yes. But they SMS, chat and e-mail their friends and family in their own local language.

Don't believe me? There's a couple of threads already, where the guys have trouble installing their regional fonts and come looking for help here. It will only get worse if you target those markets.

Still, a cheap, laggy phone for the masses is a mistake at this point. Give something to the homebrew hackers and they will give back something even better. Sell something to people who barely speak english, and they'll return cryptic insults....
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Old 12/13/2012, 12:31 AM   #107 (permalink)
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Guys,

Don't bother getting your hopes up. Phoenix smells very strongly like a fly-by-night institution. Also... No Phoenix International Communications Incorporated exists as a proper legal entity and, as a result, is running afoul of US law. Perhaps their intentions are good, but so far this has been all talk and no real evidence of actual work. Finally, if they plan on trying to make hardware and fund this via Kickstarter, I seriously don't see that working out at all. There's just too much on the line here and it's probably best to just move along. If anyone or any entity can affect change, it would have to be well-established groups like webOS-Internals.


~NoUserFound
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Old 12/13/2012, 01:48 AM   #108 (permalink)
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French? Yes.

Most of Africa, and in the past also the "French Indo-China" countries like Viet Nam and Cambodia, though i'm inclined to think that nowadays those have switched to English in some ways (technology and trade), and in Cambodia, almost every educated person had died in Pol Pot's death camps back in the '70s, so they have started from scratch.

Africa is relatively easy, since in some tribes, French is the only written language, while the local dialects are only spoken and won't require spellcheck functionality

I think it's a worthy goal to add support for obscure languages to openwebOS (and later patch legacy code), but definitely not the priority. But another language to add to your list of "colonial" languages would be Russian. That would cover the whole of the former Soviet Union, and then also Bulgaria, which uses a Cyrilic charset but different spellings of words, so Bulgarians can understand quite a bit of Russian.

If we support Russian but leave off Ukrainian, support Spanish but not Catalan, and so on, we would have a chance to perfect the support of those core "colonial" languages (spellcheck, autocorrect) and be on par with Apple before moving on to the local dialects and obscure languages of the 3rd world. There is no use in being sub-par in everything, "jack of all trades and master of none". If we can perfect the classical, non-regional forms of the main languages, and not have autocorrect erase the eloquence and sophistication of the writer, in the long run, it will be worth more than supporting Gujarati or Telugu.

Those guys can have a "language pack" to download, which includes a font and a keyboard layout, later on, optional translations for system preferences apps, and if someone volunteers to translate the help app docs, that too. But spellcheck will have to wait, until the Android spellcheck dictionaries can be extracted in a few clicks and put to use by us.


Edit: I'm thinking, when it comes to major Asian languages, webOS already supports the Chinese (Han) characters (aka kanji, hanzi, hanja) including the fonts and input methods. We can also move in that direction, to support Japanese (the language of anime) and Mandarin (mainland china, "simplified chinese"). This would be reasonable.
This would actually be a great community effort. I know absolutely nothing about creating language packs or the like, but I'd definitely do all I could to help (and try to find some others to help as well). I know that Rody mentioned on the Open webOS forums that the lack of Chinese support for Open webOS out of the box had to do with the "lack of open source fonts (and, of course, time to test, package, deploy)." I'm assuming that for these non-Latin based languages, we'd need to create our own fonts, or find open sourced versions of them, so we can send them upstream. That'd certainly help Open webOS as a whole. Unfortunately, I don't speak any other languages, so I don't see how I could help in that regard, but if anyone is willing to at least make an attempt at this, I think we should give it a go!
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Old 12/13/2012, 02:12 AM   #109 (permalink)
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This would actually be a great community effort. I know absolutely nothing about creating language packs or the like, but I'd definitely do all I could to help (and try to find some others to help as well). I know that Rody mentioned on the Open webOS forums that the lack of Chinese support for Open webOS out of the box had to do with the "lack of open source fonts (and, of course, time to test, package, deploy)." I'm assuming that for these non-Latin based languages, we'd need to create our own fonts, or find open sourced versions of them, so we can send them upstream. That'd certainly help Open webOS as a whole. Unfortunately, I don't speak any other languages, so I don't see how I could help in that regard, but if anyone is willing to at least make an attempt at this, I think we should give it a go!
Alright.

I have a pretty good idea of what needs to be done, so yeah, we can get to work on it as soon as some other priorities are taken care of. I currently have a backlog of patches and projects that i'm working on at the same time (TBH, i shouldn't even be posting right now), but in another month, i might join in on this.

Regarding Chinese language support, it's coming together rather nicely on the legacy devices, with fonts, input and (Chomper's?) "Just Speak". I'm not so sure about spellcheck quality, but then if we can get the same accomplished for all the major/colonial languages, it will help Gram attract corporate clients

Last edited by Remy X; 12/13/2012 at 02:17 AM.
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