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Old 06/29/2012, 11:54 AM   #61 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by andyhurley View Post
The NDA is not a promise to do any work. If you don't like what you see you still have the option to do nothing, the only thing you give up is the right to talk about what is being done.
It's a joke anyway - how are a lot of ******* going to enforce an NDA ?
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Old 06/29/2012, 12:37 PM   #62 (permalink)
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Your belief is unfounded.

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Just saying my suspicions are high. Time will tell
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Old 06/29/2012, 02:42 PM   #63 (permalink)
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It's a joke anyway - how are a lot of ******* going to enforce an NDA ?
Why do you persist in creating drama? If you aren't interested, or think it's a waste of time, then don't volunteer, and don't sign the NDA. I don't see anyone on here pressuring you or anyone else to get involved if you don't want to. Either accept the invite and the terms or reject it.
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Old 06/29/2012, 06:16 PM   #64 (permalink)
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Just saying my suspicions are high. Time will tell
Well, in time there may well be an Open webOS port to all sorts of well-documented mobile devices with
readily available hardware drivers. One prerequisite for that would be the actual release of Open webOS source code to start with, which does not happen for a number of months. A second prerequisite would then be someone actually porting the code and getting it to work on such devices.

Regardless of your unfounded suspicions, such a thing does not exist in WebOS Internals today.

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Old 06/30/2012, 12:45 AM   #65 (permalink)
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I've talked to marcedhk in private before and I think their project is a noble one, so here's hoping this just comes across as nothing more than constructive criticism.

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But have you ever signed an NDA where the company will not make it clear who runs it or what the structure is? Yes, I've signed plenty of NDAs regarding projects but it's always clear who I will be working for/with.
Even with an NDA, as a webOS Early Access Developer back in the day we all saw just how well those NDAs worked when webOS SDKs would leak out weeks ahead of time, screens would mysteriously get sent to various tech rags, etc.

NDA or not, well, things have a way of getting out. And they generally will unless there's a clear and present accountability trail on every single aspect of what's being worked on. It's just reality, which kind of makes it silly that it's bolted down to an even greater level than others I've seen in past, to the point where even the organizational structure lacks transparency.

It becomes ridiculous at that point, frankly. It's an initiative to give Open webOS some devices to call home not entirely unlike the open and transparent CyanogenMod project; it isn't a Secret Service operation. Let those involved express excitement about their role and involvement, but restrict them from revealing details. Simple as that. Talking to OEMs? Making new devices? Well, obviously that remains secret until Phoenix sees fit to announce.

Be transparent about the organization's structure. With too much secrecy, interest will almost certainly wane when no news trickles out and nobody's able to create buzz inside--and more importantly, outside--the community.

Last edited by dignitary; 06/30/2012 at 01:17 AM.
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Old 06/30/2012, 04:24 AM   #66 (permalink)
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Here is my view:

I would love to be apart of Phoenix but the NDA for a volunteering position is just not sitting right for me. I dont really know these guys very well and dont know if they have a separate agenda (NOT saying that they do). And being that any work or communication with them would be through the internet, it just dosnt seem like the safest thing for me to do right now. Being a college sophomore you have to be cautions about the decisions you make you know guys? I really hope Phoenix does what they plan on and succeeds, but until i see some form of something being produced (some code possibly when openwebos is released) im going to sit it out. Hopefully i can be apart of PMD later on.

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Old 06/30/2012, 07:34 AM   #67 (permalink)
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Here is my view:

I would love to be apart of Phoenix but the NDA for a volunteering position is just not sitting right for me. I dont really know these guys very well and dont know if they have a separate agenda (NOT saying that they do). And being that any work or communication with them would be through the internet, it just dosnt seem like the safest thing for me to do right now. Being a college sophomore you have to be cautions about the decisions you make you know guys? I really hope Phoenix does what they plan on and succeeds, but until i see some form of something being produced (some code possibly when openwebos is released) im going to sit it out. Hopefully i can be apart of PMD later on.

</rant>
so if HP contacted you and said "hey would you like to volunteer your services (without pay) to try out new builds for webos? " the only prerequisite is that you sign an NDA in order to be a part of it .

what would you say to that ?
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Old 06/30/2012, 07:52 PM   #68 (permalink)
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If it's not a commercial venture, why is an NDA necessary. If it is, then you don't use volunteers.
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Old 06/30/2012, 09:27 PM   #69 (permalink)
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Stop freaking out about NDAs people. You sign them, you don't violate them, and you get information. This is the way business works in the tech world.
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Old 06/30/2012, 11:41 PM   #70 (permalink)
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I think we're all pretty aware of how NDAs work, eblade. That isn't the topic, however, and the condescending tone in your reply doesn't do much to further the conversation.

There are a lot of good questions, opinions, and comments in here from both sides surrounding the way NDAs are being used in the context of Phoenix, so I don't see why it's necessary to come in and crap on it.

Healthy debate and inquiry are signs of a healthy community with vested interest in what's going on.
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Old 06/30/2012, 11:47 PM   #71 (permalink)
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I think we're all pretty aware of how NDAs work, eblade. That isn't the topic, however, and the condescending tone in your reply doesn't do much to further the conversation.

There are a lot of good questions, opinions, and comments in here from both sides surrounding the way NDAs are being used in the context of Phoenix, so I don't see why it's necessary to come in and crap on it. I've signed more NDAs during my career than some people in the community have years of age (in their mid-20s at the very least), but that doesn't stop me from raising some concerns about the process from a long-informed perspective; in fact, it makes me more likely to do so.

Healthy debate and inquiry are signs of a healthy community with vested interest in what's going on.
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Old 07/03/2012, 04:43 AM   #72 (permalink)
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Hello guys, more information will be posted on our facebook page which you can all like here https://www.facebook.com/phxdevices

Additionally, we are running a poll and would like your feedback on what kind of screen size you would like to see your next dream WebOS phone have. So please vote and spread the word guys!

(Yes, im a volunteer)
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Old 07/03/2012, 06:22 AM   #73 (permalink)
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Unfortunately I cannot go to Facebook here from behind the Great Chinese Firewall I'll be only back in 3 weeks, not sure the vote will still be open? I'm also a volunteer by the way.

My vote would be for a quite small phone, I don't understand the obsession with going bigger and bigger. 4.7" is almost a tablet and doesn't fit properly in pockets etc.

I love my Veer, I love the physical keyboard (even though they're getting rarer and rarer nowadays). The screen size could be a little bigger, but nothing too much, less than 4" for sure for me.

I would opt for longer battery life and faster CPU though.
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Old 07/03/2012, 10:45 AM   #74 (permalink)
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Hello guys, more information will be posted on our facebook page which you can all like here https://www.facebook.com/phxdevices

Additionally, we are running a poll and would like your feedback on what kind of screen size you would like to see your next dream WebOS phone have. So please vote and spread the word guys!

(Yes, im a volunteer)
I'd love to provide input...

But I WILL NOT use Facebook, Twitter, Social Media of any kind. I find them too invasive and demanding. Plus I'm old and crotchety.

Good luck with your poll and your endeavors.
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Old 07/03/2012, 12:03 PM   #75 (permalink)
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I'd love to provide input...

But I WILL NOT use Facebook, Twitter, Social Media of any kind. I find them too invasive and demanding. Plus I'm old and crotchety.

Good luck with your poll and your endeavors.
You don't know what you are missing... I was a facebook hold out until I got on webOS... I was a twitter hold out until last year (now approaching 11,000 tweets).

Honestly the key is to not put anything out there you don't want out there. For the most part everyone I follow and who follows me is into tech and not people that know me in real life on twitter. Twitter is a great way to keep up with information without having to spend time on forums and tracking down info.

Okay sorry, back on topic now, I will have to check the FB page later!
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Old 07/03/2012, 12:20 PM   #76 (permalink)
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...Twitter is a great way to keep up with information without having to spend time on forums and tracking down info....
Ouch!!! You got some explaining to do in the next Mod meeting.

I've tried that stuff. Maybe it's just me. Too many notifications, demands for attention/replies, commercial interaction requests... Those SM sites create tendrils and grow like kudzu on steroids.

I don't see myself going back.


Back on topic I would also like to express that the Devs should resist the "Bigger is Better" theorem and please, please, please think about a gesture area and physical keyboard support.
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Old 07/03/2012, 12:27 PM   #77 (permalink)
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Ouch!!! You got some explaining to do in the next Mod meeting.

Back on topic I would also like to express that the Devs should resist the "Bigger is Better" theorem and please, please, please think about a gesture area and physical keyboard support.
LOL, well clearly I spend far too much time here too. But I understand average users of any forum don't always have time to keep up on every topic, especially in a international space like tech. I follow various developers and homebrewers from around the world, easy to ask questions and follow responses/threads.


I am with you on gestures and physical keyboard, but I understand the market wants a slab. Sadly the portrait kayboard is getting rare. With the way the market is (especially GSM) I would guess first device will be a GSM slab of some sort, there are just so many of them out there. I am happy with my Pre3 for the immediate future though, so I can wait for the physical keyboard.
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Old 07/03/2012, 01:37 PM   #78 (permalink)
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Here's a thought I had while looking at WindsorNot, as well as my experiences with a fairly sizeable number of mobile devices .. and playing with the Luna source, and such.

Once you get to Pre3 size, or larger, the gesture area at the bottom becomes a pain in the ***. It really does. You're holding your phone so it's center is in your palm, and unless you have gorilla hands, you aren't really able to thumb the gesture area anymore like the original devices. Also, having giant bezels like a PlayBook does, sucks too (and I seriously doubt their claims that their bezels are touch sensitive, considering that all their gesture operations require going into the screen).

I think a better idea might be to have the status bar user configurable as to which side of the screen it is on (top, left, bottom, right), and using the status bar as the gesture area. Course having a sideways status bar would be weird, but we also don't want to suck up any more screen space to dedicate to a specific area .. and having areas outside of the status bar be the gesture area would also be weird.
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Old 07/03/2012, 01:59 PM   #79 (permalink)
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I seriously doubt their claims that their bezels are touch sensitive, considering that all their gesture operations require going into the screen.
I own a PlayBook, and can confirm the bezels are in fact touch sensitive, as the "back" gesture in android apps can be performed without touching the screen.
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Old 07/27/2012, 11:54 PM   #80 (permalink)
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Things are still happening behind the scenes here at P.I.C but we don't want to keep everything from you. In fact, we want you to get involved!

P.I.C Logo Contest

Are you into graphics, do you love design? We at P.I.C are looking for the next great artist to help design our company’s logo. This logo will go on our home sites, stationary, boot logo and other goodies. It would be an awesome way to do something you are passionate about, with a company that is passionate about all things mobile. Also it would be a great addition to your portfolio.

The rules are simple:

• You can use Photoshop, 3D Max, Google sketch up, Autodesk, Corel tools...any digital tools.
• Be free, be creative as you like; but be tasteful.
• It must contain an ORIGINAL depiction of a Phoenix using the companies’ initials and a catch phrase
• It should be circular in design.

The contest starts August 1st, semi-finalist with be picked on the 10th and contest will end on August 15th at midnight. Winners will be announced on August 17th via Facebook.

Judges will be: A panel of Phoenix International Communication’s design wizards and the CEO.

Prizes will be: A 50.00 American Express Card for the winning design.

Send in your entries here: dgiovannetti@phxdevices.com
Please include your name and email address
Finalist’s entries will be placed on our Facebook page (https://www.facebook.com/phxdevices) and picked out by the community.
Have fun and good luck.

*** The winning logo and tag phrase will remain the property of Phoenix International Communication***

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