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Isis-Project Browser - Abandoned?
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Old 02/12/2014, 01:47 AM   #81 (permalink)
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Why not? Makes even more sense, then... as a separate app. We really need a bit rendering-engine diversification on webos. That should build on ARM and integrates with Qt... so maybe we can build it easily for webos-ports Open webOS. But that's just a bit of guessing..
There is no Qt5 for legacy webOS, right? This will make it hard to port it there, too... probably not going to happen.
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Old 02/12/2014, 02:49 AM   #82 (permalink)
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Why not? Makes even more sense, then... as a separate app. We really need a bit rendering-engine diversification on webos. That should build on ARM and integrates with Qt... so maybe we can build it easily for webos-ports Open webOS. But that's just a bit of guessing..
There is no Qt5 for legacy webOS, right? This will make it hard to port it there, too... probably not going to happen.
It's not likely due to the many dependencies on Sailfish specific bits that this can easily be ported to Ports or Legacy for that matter.

Getting QT5 to work on legacy shouldn't be rocket science, but it won't be that easy either I guess. Getting 4.8 to work was fairly straight forward, but my attempts to do the same with 4.8.3 weren't successful but that was probably due to my lack of skills
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Old 02/12/2014, 03:51 AM   #83 (permalink)
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So... I'm not focusing my efforts on the "Isis" project as it is/was. It basically was the open source-ness of the legacy webOS browser system (browserserver, BrowserAdapter, and "Web"). While Universe, as it is for open webOS, is targeting QT5, I am kinda hoping to keep it working on QT4.8 or so. I mean, I still use a Pre3 as my daily driver. So why not *try*?

Now, that is all dependent on what time work allots me....

Anyway... ¡Viva la webOS!
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Old 02/12/2014, 09:19 AM   #84 (permalink)
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Thanks for the replies. Yes, I saw the mention of Mozilla and should have spotted the Gecko/WebKit thing. I suppose it may be possible to run Gecko under webOS, but being 'webOS', I assume webkit is integrated into the system at a relatively low level. Although, perhaps the connectivity is low-level and the rendering not so much...?

I can see that integration may also be an issue if it requires porting extra bits of Sailfish just to work.

My biggest annoyance with webOS is that spinning grey circle when the browser fails. I'll just point a finger at A-Browser Qt (4.8) again. It needs a UI and probably a bit more, but it seems fast & stable if anyone's interested...

It's amazing how much has been done to keep Legacy webOS operational, but it is the future with webOS-Ports that is really most important as the current devices won't last forever or will simply become technologically obsolete.

So, good luck to all your efforts! ;-)
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Old 02/12/2014, 09:35 AM   #85 (permalink)
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I would think any browser and engine could be compiled with the PDK and run standalone, as long as the required libraries are available for it.
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Old 02/12/2014, 09:38 AM   #86 (permalink)
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I would think any browser and engine could be compiled with the PDK and run standalone, as long as the required libraries are available for it.
Well there was a PreFox Alpha long time ago but since Firefox is memory hungry it was not running that nicely. Besides that there were the A-Browser etc that DO have potential, just would need some TLC.
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Old 02/12/2014, 01:52 PM   #87 (permalink)
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Uh, I realise I'm probably just stirring things with my ignorant stick, but I came across this:
SHR install on Pre+
Leading to this:
Get Started - SHR (Not much activity on this project since 2011 The SHR Project blog: News Archives )
So that appears to include a mobile implementation of this:
Download Midori - A lightweight, fast, and free web browser.
Which is webkit based.
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Old 02/12/2014, 01:59 PM   #88 (permalink)
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SHR was the previous pet project of (at least) 2 of the main Ports members! From what I understood it's pretty much dead and they're putting 99 or so % of the efforts in Ports!

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Old 02/13/2014, 01:32 PM   #89 (permalink)
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Some thoughts about legacy Isis: as far as I understand, browseradapter talks with browserserver, which render pages, and share buffer with it. The idea is to manage browseradapter to talk with modern CEF3(see it's Off-screen Rendering feature), instead of browserserver. Does anyone know is this possible?
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Old 02/13/2014, 02:12 PM   #90 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by dkirker View Post
... While Universe, as it is for open webOS, is targeting QT5, I am kinda hoping to keep it working on QT4.8 or so. I mean, I still use a Pre3 as my daily driver. So why not *try*?
...
Anyway... ¡Viva la webOS!
I wish I could help, but since I can't I just want to give thanks to anyone working on legacy.
Thank you!!!
Even if I weren't the kind of person that keeps a pentium II from the last millennium running as a server (read as cheap or resourceful - your pick), I would still have a hard time quiting my Palm/HP hardware because I love the portrait-slider with gesture area so much!
My biggest problem with my devices now is the browser, so an update that would allow me to hit my bank's website without having to time my clicks for the second after the scripts load and right before the browser goes white would be huge!
¡Viva la webOS! - Indeed!
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Old 02/13/2014, 03:09 PM   #91 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by NIN_ru View Post
Some thoughts about legacy Isis: as far as I understand, browseradapter talks with browserserver, which render pages, and share buffer with it. The idea is to manage browseradapter to talk with modern CEF3(see it's Off-screen Rendering feature), instead of browserserver. Does anyone know is this possible?
Quote:
Originally Posted by https://code.google.com/p/chromiumembedded/wiki/GeneralUsage
Off-Screen Rendering

With off-screen rendering CEF does not create a native browser window. Instead, CEF provides the host application with invalidated regions and a pixel buffer and the host application notifies CEF of mouse, keyboard and focus events. Off-screen rendering does not currently support accelerated compositing so performance may suffer as compared to a windowed browser.
Is that relevant?

Also, it appears that Chromium now uses Blink as a rendering engine - which is a Google fork of WebKit. Could that be a compatibility problem? Also, I suppose there is the question of (proprietary) Flash support. I suppose it's question of modularity.

I looked at Wikipedia for a list of Browsers. From that and for general information, here are links to those that are webkit based and OSS.
Web (!)
Konqueror
Midori
Origyn
QupZilla
Rekonq
Uzbl

In legacy terms, it would be nice if the current browser was 'stabilised' (not frequently graying out and reloading). I am personally happy with it otherwise. On Open webOS, of course, there is less restriction. Uzbl appears interesting as a modular component that could perhaps integrate with the legacy flash player. Is flash redundant yet? I still get updates for the desktop - in fact perhaps that indicates that a future browser user may be able to access a free plugin...
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Last edited by Preemptive; 02/13/2014 at 03:33 PM.
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Old 02/13/2014, 03:59 PM   #92 (permalink)
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I don't know anything about browsers, it's just my simple thoughts. I understand cef as black box that take input events and produce picture(it includes engine in itself). If browseradapter can't show this picture, then I think it's possible(but hard) to write ui on sdl/opengl, history, bookmarks,... , and just show that picture. I think it's very hard to port any other browser as they uses different(from webOS) window systems.
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Old 02/13/2014, 04:19 PM   #93 (permalink)
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I don't know anything about browsers, it's just my simple thoughts.
Mine too! ;-)
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Old 02/14/2014, 04:10 AM   #94 (permalink)
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If I had the time (and more need), I would try to compile A-Browser (or any other rendering engine, probably Gecko, because I still like Firefox more than all this webkit stuff) as PDK Plugin and build a JS-UI for it (or look into the Isis UI, if I can modify that).
I have not really looked into that, but from what I know (I tried some plugin development in the past) that could create a nice browser with a nicely integrated UI quite fast.

@Preemptive: sure webOS is webkit based. But you can always run any other browser as PDK app, like A-Browser. A-Browser does not interact with the webOS-webkit core other than supplying rendered images for it. The same thing would be perfectly possible for a gecko-based browser or anything... the big issue here is to find someone who does it...
Like you said, open webOS is the future, so currently I invest most of my scarce spare time into that (I already have too many projects there, sadly) and live with our current browser. :-/
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Old 02/14/2014, 06:44 AM   #95 (permalink)
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I was tidying up some old notes yesterday and came across this:
https://github.com/trevorlinton/webkit.js

A bit of web search:
WebKit.js: It's happening for real, with Emscripten's help | Badass JavaScript

Webkit.js - Who Needs A Browser?

It's a bit much for this non-techie. I'm half expecting to come across a project for coding a javascript engine...in javascript! ;-)
Surely there's a performance hit in doing things in high level language?

It's not a completed project it seems, but any thoughts?
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Old 02/14/2014, 08:18 AM   #96 (permalink)
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This is a nice project, yes... but it probably is not of much use for legacy webOS. This is more a fun & proof of concept thingie... probably with a decent JS engine that has just in time compilation and everything else it might be possible to use for certain rendering issues our old webkit engine has... but: our old webkit engine is old, i.e. it does not contain these fancy techniques that were developed into the fast JS engines during the JS engine wars (V8 <=> JägerMonkey/TraceMonkey <=> IE9/10/11 <=> Nitro). Those produces giant leaps for Javascript performance, but were "after" our old webkit engine... :-(

Similar interesting stuff is asm.js which could boost performance of certain apps in webOS... watch this presentation: Big Web App? Compile It! this is really nice stuff.

On the other hand legacy webOS devices suffer most from memory issues, IMHO... and memory optimization is probably not what JS is good at. Also I'm pretty sure there are some memory leaks in 2.2.4 Luna. But they can't be fixed without the source code.

And yes, coding something to interpret/run/compile/link itself is a common problem in computer science.. similar issues apply to the boot process (for example: How to load the program that is responsible for loading? ). That is the reason why "booting" refers to the story of Baron Münchhause where he claims to himself out of a swamp by pulling his bootstraps.
Writing a compiler feels similar, a lot.
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Old 02/14/2014, 11:03 AM   #97 (permalink)
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The JS Engine wars?! ;-)

I believe Obiwan.js was able to bootstrap using the Force. The Baron's method remains unknown.

So who won these wars?

And, vaguely back on topic, does Open webOS benefit from a newer JS engine?
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Old 02/14/2014, 11:48 AM   #98 (permalink)
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@js-wars: Yes, I call them that way. :-p Who won? Depends on the benchmark you want to look at... Of course development is still ongoing, but it slowed down a bit and benchmark optimization isn't the main focus anymore.

@webos and js-engine:
Yes. Sure it does. webos version is based on QtWebkit 5.0 (or 5.2?) now and might transition to QtWebengine. The original Open webOS is also using QtWebkit (some 4.8 version or so, similar to A-Browser).

For (legacy) webOS the JS-Engine is very important, because it does most of the UI stuff of the system. This is why it has heavy customizations and you can't easily replace it... so legacy webOS is stuck with it's old webkit engine. In the webos-ports version of OWO this will be a bit different, from what I understood. Most of the system UI is designed using QML, which is more indepent from the browser-engine inside webOS. There are still some modifications to the browser, but much less and switching to newer versions of QtWebKit is much easier. (at least that is what I understood)

But still, even if you can't easily replace the whole webkit-engine that does the system UI in legacy webOS you could still get another browser with its own renderer onto the System, probably as PDK app, like A-Browser shows. It is only that nobody ever finished such a project. :-(
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Old 02/16/2014, 08:53 PM   #99 (permalink)
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@js-wars: Yes, I call them that way. :-p Who won? Depends on the benchmark you want to look at... Of course development is still ongoing, but it slowed down a bit and benchmark optimization isn't the main focus anymore.
Of course, we know at least half of them are rigged. :P (Usually the ones that vendors choose to use.)

I'm in the groove for Universe now. B-)

Is there a site that has instructions for compiling the A-Browser? I looked around and found some random stuff, but nothing that seemed like a "homepage".
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Old 02/16/2014, 09:13 PM   #100 (permalink)
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Of course, we know at least half of them are rigged. :P (Usually the ones that vendors choose to use.)

I'm in the groove for Universe now. B-)

Is there a site that has instructions for compiling the A-Browser? I looked around and found some random stuff, but nothing that seemed like a "homepage".
I did actually look up some stuff a few days back...

Please wait...
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