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Long List of OEMs Who Might Build webOS Hardware
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Old 05/24/2012, 01:26 PM   #41 (permalink)
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WebOS is associated with failed devices. That's reality.

That's what has to be sold in the boardroom.
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Old 05/24/2012, 01:50 PM   #42 (permalink)
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It is an unparalleled opportunity for someone to stand out in the market place.
If that's true HP would have been able to sell it when they hawked it around rather than have to write off it's financial value.

The OS is the real cheap bit, what you are asking a OEM to do is to set down billions of dollars to build a competitiveness ecosystem and competitive devices that can fight it out with iphone 5/6, whatever comes after the galaxy 3 etc. Before they even get to that stage, they have to fight off Bada, WP8 and Blackberry 10.


And you are asking them to do it in a market when between then samsung and Apple catched 73% of the revenue and 99% of the profits in the last quarter.
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Old 05/25/2012, 08:59 PM   #43 (permalink)
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If that's true HP would have been able to sell it when they hawked it around rather than have to write off it's financial value.

The OS is the real cheap bit, what you are asking a OEM to do is to set down billions of dollars to build a competitiveness ecosystem and competitive devices that can fight it out with iphone 5/6, whatever comes after the galaxy 3 etc. Before they even get to that stage, they have to fight off Bada, WP8 and Blackberry 10.


And you are asking them to do it in a market when between then samsung and Apple catched 73% of the revenue and 99% of the profits in the last quarter.
Your last statement illustrates WHY a company might make the investment in Open Source webOS.

IDK why you are so adamant that all these companies are content to sit back and suck hind teat. That's your pessimistic slant, I guess, and it's true that many people go through life that way. There are hungry sharks out there among the OEMs that will want a way to cash in on the still growing smart device market.... I'm just glad they aren't all run by individuals who ignore potential and are quick to dismiss ideas.

About those billions that scare you: first run WinPhone 7 devices were $400/each to manufacture... So that's 2,500,000 phones to equal a One Billion $ layout. You keep saying billions. How many phones do you expect an OEM will try to pump out with a new OS in the first year? 5 Million? 10 Million?

If you start from scratch... If you are a company that never produced a mobile device the cost per unit WOULD be staggering.

But if you have the infrastructure in place to build mobile already the cost to start up a new run isn't as great.

Your billions and billions is really comparing pomegranates and figs.
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Old 05/25/2012, 09:03 PM   #44 (permalink)
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If that's true HP would have been able to sell it when they hawked it around rather than have to write off it's financial value.

The OS is the real cheap bit, what you are asking a OEM to do is to set down billions of dollars to build a competitiveness ecosystem and competitive devices that can fight it out with iphone 5/6, whatever comes after the galaxy 3 etc. Before they even get to that stage, they have to fight off Bada, WP8 and Blackberry 10.


And you are asking them to do it in a market when between then samsung and Apple catched 73% of the revenue and 99% of the profits in the last quarter.
The rumors were that HP wanted 1.2 billion dollars for Palm after they laid off all the hardware engineers. Who would be stupid enough to fall for that? HP was the highest bidder with 1.2 billion back before Palm lost a lot of talent, including Matias Duate, and all the hardware engineers.
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Old 05/25/2012, 09:04 PM   #45 (permalink)
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Your last statement illustrates WHY a company might make the investment in Open Source webOS.

IDK why you are so adamant that all these companies are content to sit back and suck hind teat. That's your pessimistic slant, I guess, and it's true that many people go through life that way. There are hungry sharks out there that will want a way to cash in on the still growing smart device market.... I'm just glad they aren't all run by individuals who ignore potential and are quick to dismiss ideas.

About those billions that scare you: first run WinPhone 7 devices were $400/each to manufacture... So that's 2,500,000 phones to equal a One Billion $ layout. You keep saying billions. How many phones do you expect an OEM will try to pump out with a new OS in the first year? 5 Million? 10 Million?

If you start from scratch... If you are a company that never produced a mobile device the cost per unit WOULD be staggering.

But if you have the infrastructure in place to build mobile already the cost to start up a new run isn't as great.

Your billions and billions is really comparing pomegranates and figs.
This.

When you already make millions of phones every quarter it won't cost very much for the company (comparatively) to make a few thousand test phones with their existing hardware lines.
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Old 05/26/2012, 03:39 AM   #46 (permalink)
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OK, so you've made a few thousand test phones - who's providing the ecosystem? Where's the tens of millions if not hundreds of millions for marketing? where the money for sweeting the pot for carrier relationships, where''s the money for serious developer relations?

Quicker to throw the money down a big hole - if a OEM wants to sit at the bit table, they can't go in at such a low level, they have to willing to spend big. Problem is, even if someone was willing to do it, I can't think off the top of my head who could currently afford to do it.
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Old 05/26/2012, 07:52 AM   #47 (permalink)
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They're test phones for a reason. Make a few thousand, watch how the phones sell, read the reviews, judge customers reaction, decide whether its worth investing further. I don't think that its an all or nothing situation. There is already enough of an ecosystem in webOS, although, yes I agree that it needs to be improved. webOS has Amazon for music, Kindle for books, rovio is willing to help with movies, HTC has their own mapping software, hopefully Open Mobile gets the ACL working.
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Old 05/26/2012, 08:21 AM   #48 (permalink)
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Rovio? no come on.... you aren't seriously using Rovio as an example of a player? Rovio is the movie store of last resort when you can't attract anyone else...
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Old 05/26/2012, 10:01 AM   #49 (permalink)
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Rovio? no come on.... you aren't seriously using Rovio as an example of a player? Rovio is the movie store of last resort when you can't attract anyone else...
Have you been into the HP Moviestore recently? The selection actually compares well to iTunes. They don't have the depth of catalog, but in terms of the the new releases (which anyone in the video rental business will tell you accounts for at least 80% of profits) they are pretty well stocked. The reason I prefer Netflix is because it's better value if you use it often, but for the considerable volume of users who only rent a couple new releases a month the Moviestore is actually not a bad option at all.

In any case, that whole argument is moot because of ACL. If OpenMobile delivers, your ecosystem argument becomes invalid - there will be no logical reason for a manufacturer or two not to make a go of open webOS. Your point about the marketing millions is irrelevant in this case - that only applies to the other discussions we had re a small startup trying to do devices. If a major manufacturer thinks there's enough of an opportunity that they would test market a few thousand devices, they would obviously factor in the marketing involved. Also it's not unreasonable to expect they would work out a co-marketing deal with HP, who is already spending millions on marketing their own devices. You don't think HP would be willing to include a plug for a device running THEIR operating system along with the marketing they already do every day for the all devices they manufacturer themselves? You don't think they can get the retail outlets to carry a webOS tablet along with the several other devices they're already carrying from HP and the new manufacturer? You don't think a manufacturer that has carriers carrying their feature phones and Android phones which are selling by the millions wouldn't be able to convince the carrier to support a webOS phone? Why - because the original webOS phones, made by another manufacturer who had LITTLE REAL EXPERIENCE in phones (HP) didn't sell well? When the phone that they finally got right (the Pre3) didn't even get to compete on the market? (BTW using the bad TP sales to pre-judge and cancel the pre3 was a ridiculous mistake on Leo's part, but that's a whole other discussion).

Ecosystem? Check.

Marketing dollars? Check.

Carriers? Check.

Distribution? Check.

Given the above, do you REALLY still think that it's not reasonable to expect a manufacturer to give open webOS a go?

Come on man. Please don't take this the wrong way, I'm not trying to tick you off, but it really seems that your pessimism (which I think is justified to some degree BTW), has been allowed to run free to the point where it's interfering with your objective judgment.
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Old 05/26/2012, 10:21 AM   #50 (permalink)
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Well let's get to brass tacks - who is it? Who is the likely knight on a white charger?

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Old 05/26/2012, 10:33 AM   #51 (permalink)
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Well let's get to brass tacks - who is it? Who is the likely knight on a white charger?

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Even if anyone on here knew, they wouldn't be able to say. Not unless they didn't care at all about the job of whoever told them.

In any case, if any hardware is coming it can only be kept secret for so long. Orders have to be placed, marketing and distribution has to be arranged, people have to be briefed etc. Somewhere along the line something will leak out - I'm sure we'll hear at least a month or two before the device becomes available. So by the end of July at the latest we should get something to talk about again on here - one way or the other - either I'll have to eat my hat or you will...
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Old 05/26/2012, 04:07 PM   #52 (permalink)
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There will be nothing to talk about at the end of July.

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Old 05/26/2012, 11:16 PM   #53 (permalink)
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...Where's the tens of millions if not hundreds of millions for marketing? where the money for sweeting the pot for carrier relationships, where''s the money for serious developer relations?...
Just to be extra clear about it... No one is asking you for the money, dude.


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Old 05/27/2012, 03:18 AM   #54 (permalink)
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LOL - good thing, I think as a sector, Samsung and Apple has it stitched up for this cycle and whoever beats them will come out of left-field and not be a current player or also-ran (sorry RIM, Nokia).
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Old 05/27/2012, 04:05 AM   #55 (permalink)
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YThere are hungry sharks out there among the OEMs that will want a way to cash in on the still growing smart device market.
WebOS has never been a way to cash in. It's yet to turn a profit.
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Old 05/27/2012, 04:08 AM   #56 (permalink)
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Where's the tens of millions if not hundreds of millions for marketing?
a couple hundred mill wouldn't get you through a quarter. But where are they? They don't exist. That's where. It's in peoples fantasy's at the moment. like the fantasy's in many threads like user created devices, and forum groups that would somehow dictate the plan of open webos.
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Old 05/27/2012, 11:59 AM   #57 (permalink)
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OK, I waited a little while longer to see if any more OEM's would get nominated. I guess that phase is complete. It's just become a discussion thread about why or why not any OEM would want to look at Open Source webOS as a possibility...

I'll ask a Mod to close this thread and post a poll over in the webOS Open Source Devices forum.
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Old 05/27/2012, 01:53 PM   #58 (permalink)
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OK, I waited a little while longer to see if any more OEM's would get nominated. I guess that phase is complete. It's just become a discussion thread about why or why not any OEM would want to look at Open Source webOS as a possibility...

I'll ask a Mod to close this thread and post a poll over in the webOS Open Source Devices forum.
<thread closed>
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