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Sept 2012 HP webOS open source ready, then go for them.
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Old 03/22/2012, 12:43 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Sept 2012 HP webOS open source ready, then go for them.

The HP webOS open source 1.0 roadmap shows as a final date for releasing the OS as September 2012.

Things HP should do to get the attention of hardware smartphones and tablet PC makers worldwide:

1. Contact all of them to delivery the advantages of the new HP webOS open source 1.0
2. The document must include not only what is HP webOS open source, but what will be the support for the actual and coming years of the OS for them.
3. Highlight no fragmentation ever.
4. Try to get latest hardware from them in order to load the devices with webOS, for demos.
5. Use yours prototypes similar devices as well, as an alternative.
6. If you send webOS staff to theirs countries, make sure to be accompanied with a native language speaker who understands tech words and the OS.
7. Maybe is not so simple as I above listed. But HP you should Just go for them with webOS.

Who are they?
Samsung, HTC, SONY, Asus, LG, Huawei, Archos, Fujitsu, Toshiba, Lenovo, Dell, Amazon, Free scale semiconductor, Notion Ink, View Sonic, Nook etc

If you have more thoughts about what HP should do to succeed with webOS , pls let us know. I will tweet yours as well to HP and the world.
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Old 03/22/2012, 03:08 AM   #2 (permalink)
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I think when HP goes to try and find any sort of partner like an HTC, Samsung etc there is really just one question that will generally be asked of them and one they have to answer: That is "How will using open webos make my company more money in the short or long term then using Android or Windows Phone 7?"

I think that is the big question they have to answer. Whatever they add or improve and whatever arguments they make need to answer that question for any potential partner. How will it make me more money?
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Old 03/22/2012, 06:07 AM   #3 (permalink)
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I think when HP goes to try and find any sort of partner like an HTC, Samsung etc there is really just one question that will generally be asked of them and one they have to answer: That is "How will using open webos make my company more money in the short or long term then using Android or Windows Phone 7?"

I think that is the big question they have to answer. Whatever they add or improve and whatever arguments they make need to answer that question for any potential partner. How will it make me more money?

The other question of course is "if it's so a great potential money-maker, how come you don't make hardware for it?" - that's a hard one for HP to answer with any conviction.
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Old 03/22/2012, 06:52 AM   #4 (permalink)
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#3 is only true because there will never be an OEM to pick up webOS, ever!

Do you even know what "open source " means? It means an OEM can modify the source all they want. And if they do, what do you think happens? That's right... fragmentation.
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Old 03/22/2012, 06:57 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Not quite sure of the business aspects of this venture but how does someone like HTC or Samsung make a profit off android other than thru hardware sales? It is to my understanding that Google and devs makes the profits for the app store, and carriers make profits off of phone and data plans. There are a ton of devices on verizon for example including the Samsung stratosphere that I am using these days that are not selling well compared to other Android devices and the iPhone. Imagine all the resources used by htc or LG to bring a device to the us market for example. Neither company is selling a lot of devices yet must be spending millions to get the device to the market only to not see the returns.

It is only for this reason that some argue, however inaccurately, that some company may take a chance on slapping open webos on a device they have already made for windows phone or android and testing the waters.

I get that webos failed in the market and carriers other than att and one in France have never revealed any interest in webos save for sprint with the original pre.
But how much money would LG for example lose by putting webos on their latest greatest hardware that isnt selling anyways with android on it? If HP stands by their support for the open webos project and continues to finance its development and lead its development I don't think a manufacturer such as LG would lose too much by testing the waters on hardware they have already made.

The market is always changing, and its always important to look beyond the current state of affairs. True webos is probably not the answer. It may be something else. It may continue to be ios and android...

Personally when I walk into a verizon store I find the windows phone and iPhone to be a refreshing experience after the sea of android slabs left and right.

If only the stratosphere had webos or windows phone on it...
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Old 03/22/2012, 07:55 AM   #6 (permalink)
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The other question of course is "if it's so a great potential money-maker, how come you don't make hardware for it?" - that's a hard one for HP to answer with any conviction.
So many than any other, of course.

Every this depends of position: if is expensive, no body buy! If is very low, have to sell too much to be interesting...

And this is not easy. Ask to "Nokrosoft" Windows Phone stores...


Best Regards...
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Old 03/22/2012, 08:20 AM   #7 (permalink)
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The other question of course is "if it's so a great potential money-maker, how come you don't make hardware for it?" - that's a hard one for HP to answer with any conviction.
Nah, that will be easy, "We weren't big in phone business and we want to spend our money on IT services. "
That is not hard, IBM did that to Lenovo long time back. The company which invented PC sold it to a new comer.
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Old 03/22/2012, 08:48 AM   #8 (permalink)
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The other question of course is "if it's so a great potential money-maker, how come you don't make hardware for it?" - that's a hard one for HP to answer with any conviction.
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Originally Posted by UntidyGuy2 View Post
I think the most likely question will be "HP is a hardware company, right? Why should we be using software developed by a hardware company and invest in developing hardware that you can't viably make?"

I have my hopes yet, Meg wants innovation /manufacturing to go together HP's Whitman calls for more innovative manufacturing - San Francisco Business Times

However we have to be prepared if HP will not make any webOS hardware anymore , or just a tablet sometime,sad but lets face it , just in case.

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Old 03/22/2012, 08:49 AM   #9 (permalink)
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I think when HP goes to try and find any sort of partner like an HTC, Samsung etc there is really just one question that will generally be asked of them and one they have to answer: That is "How will using open webos make my company more money in the short or long term then using Android or Windows Phone 7?"

I think that is the big question they have to answer. Whatever they add or improve and whatever arguments they make need to answer that question for any potential partner. How will it make me more money?
Valid points. I have answers for them.
First and foremost, HP should assure them that there will be no Patent related issues using webOS. Which lets them venture into the webOS world. Among the three platforms OEMs are loosing a good $15 to $25 on Android. They are not selling that many windows phones leaving Apple as the king of the jungle. If Android gets into trouble there is a good possibility that these OEMs want a choice. Its a tough call and Google might not be happy. They will fight back and try to calm the OEMs while Apple would spend all of their remaining cash (after those dividends) to right the wrong. If you remember Meg was saying the same thing, the third choice , or is it really the second choice if you take Apple out of the picture.

Then HP should come out with a plan to share revenues from the eco system with OEMs. Apple,Google and Microsoft do not share the revenues from Eco system. That would give the OEMs a chance to make more money while completely protected by the patents.

Also the more I think into this the more I feel that tablet market is going to be more critical to HP because now the division makes up 50% and are attacked by everyone from Dell, Acer..... all the way to Apple. They have got to do something if the Windows 8 thing fails.
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Old 03/22/2012, 10:27 AM   #10 (permalink)
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<<quote deleted by staff>>

All valid pts and probably why it won't happen
But as long as someone keeps working on webos all we have time for this days is to guess however foolishly

Besides I don't think HP even.knows if its a hardware company a printing company an enterprise company or what.

Last edited by HelloNNNewman; 03/24/2012 at 04:50 PM.
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Old 03/22/2012, 02:50 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Valid points. I have answers for them.
First and foremost, HP should assure them that there will be no Patent related issues using webOS. Which lets them venture into the webOS world. Among the three platforms OEMs are loosing a good $15 to $25 on Android. They are not selling that many windows phones leaving Apple as the king of the jungle. If Android gets into trouble there is a good possibility that these OEMs want a choice. Its a tough call and Google might not be happy. They will fight back and try to calm the OEMs while Apple would spend all of their remaining cash (after those dividends) to right the wrong. If you remember Meg was saying the same thing, the third choice , or is it really the second choice if you take Apple out of the picture.

Then HP should come out with a plan to share revenues from the eco system with OEMs. Apple,Google and Microsoft do not share the revenues from Eco system. That would give the OEMs a chance to make more money while completely protected by the patents.

Also the more I think into this the more I feel that tablet market is going to be more critical to HP because now the division makes up 50% and are attacked by everyone from Dell, Acer..... all the way to Apple. They have got to do something if the Windows 8 thing fails.
I was thinking much more along the lines of the sort of hard numbers. For example, pretend I'm Samsung. If you walk into my office with what you said I'm gonna say. "last quarter, Q4 of 2011, Samsung Mobile made about $2 billion in profit selling Android phones. Our quarterly reports reported "strong sales of Galaxy S II, shipments grew in all segments with expansion of high-end (Galaxy Note/Nexus, etc.) and mass-market (Galaxy Ace/Y, etc.) " Our profits are increasing not declining. Android isn't failing. So crucial question is how will webOS make me more than $2 billion dollars in profits if i switch it? And it has to be a bigger number by enough to make moving worth it?"

How many handsets will we need to sell? What investment is going into your ecosystem? How much will we make off of apps? Is it a percentage or not? What about movies? Music? do we get a percentage? And how many sales of these items do you average?

I don't think any of the bigger phone makers is gonna be too persuaded by the Android is gonna fail sort of reasoning. I don't believe that they think it's going anywhere anytime soon.
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Old 03/22/2012, 03:04 PM   #12 (permalink)
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The other question of course is "if it's so a great potential money-maker, how come you don't make hardware for it?" - that's a hard one for HP to answer with any conviction.
because they had a differing "vision" under the "guidance" of apothetard.

Then again for anyone out there, the word "free" carries weight.
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Old 03/22/2012, 03:14 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Why on earth would any handet manufacturer have to "switch" from Android to webOS?
Hardware manufacturers DIVERSIFY.

Here's a sales pitch; it's free, it's mature, it's got cool features, it's got a decent number of apps, it runs on the standard linux kernel like your Android phones...give it a shot.

*I love it when "Debbie Downer" get's into it, he gets really excited*
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Old 03/22/2012, 03:41 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Why on earth would any handet manufacturer have to "switch" from Android to webOS?
Hardware manufacturers DIVERSIFY.

Here's a sales pitch; it's free, it's mature, it's got cool features, it's got a decent number of apps, it runs on the standard linux kernel like your Android phones...give it a shot.

*I love it when "Debbie Downer" get's into it, he gets really excited*
and if/when we get ACL, we have a device that runs its native stuff as well as android stuff people already purchased and we dont have any mal/spy/garbageware in the insane amounts android does.
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Old 03/22/2012, 04:25 PM   #15 (permalink)
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I was thinking much more along the lines of the sort of hard numbers. For example, pretend I'm Samsung. If you walk into my office with what you said I'm gonna say. "last quarter, Q4 of 2011, Samsung Mobile made about $2 billion in profit selling Android phones. Our quarterly reports reported "strong sales of Galaxy S II, shipments grew in all segments with expansion of high-end (Galaxy Note/Nexus, etc.) and mass-market (Galaxy Ace/Y, etc.) " Our profits are increasing not declining. Android isn't failing. So crucial question is how will webOS make me more than $2 billion dollars in profits if i switch it? And it has to be a bigger number by enough to make moving worth it?"

How many handsets will we need to sell? What investment is going into your ecosystem? How much will we make off of apps? Is it a percentage or not? What about movies? Music? do we get a percentage? And how many sales of these items do you average?

I don't think any of the bigger phone makers is gonna be too persuaded by the Android is gonna fail sort of reasoning. I don't believe that they think it's going anywhere anytime soon.
Valid argument. It will not happen with Samsung. It might happen with Huawei or Sharp. But even before that HP has ti showcase a phone which can beat / match current phones. Then they can talk about sharing some of the ecosystem revenue. The thing with eco system is there will be no apps if there are no devices. Its a chicken and egg thing. The only hope in the short term is lawsuits killing Android and the OEMs want another option. Which is not a great one.

On a strategic level, i.e 10 years down the line, it makes sense to own a mobile OS for Samsung (they have that BADA). While they make 2 billions every quarter they cannot guarantee repeating it every quarter. Actually it makes sense for HP to fix the webOS and start making hardware. These companies wants to make money like Apple without working hard.
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Old 03/22/2012, 10:18 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Valid argument. It will not happen with Samsung. It might happen with Huawei or Sharp. But even before that HP has ti showcase a phone which can beat / match current phones. Then they can talk about sharing some of the ecosystem revenue. The thing with eco system is there will be no apps if there are no devices. Its a chicken and egg thing. The only hope in the short term is lawsuits killing Android and the OEMs want another option. Which is not a great one.

On a strategic level, i.e 10 years down the line, it makes sense to own a mobile OS for Samsung (they have that BADA). While they make 2 billions every quarter they cannot guarantee repeating it every quarter. Actually it makes sense for HP to fix the webOS and start making hardware. These companies wants to make money like Apple without working hard.
Yeah, i just used Samsung as a hypothetical. I was gonna use HTC but their earnings report was in Taiwan numbers and i didn't feel like trying to translate currencies and Samsung's had it already broken down by department.
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Old 03/23/2012, 05:21 AM   #17 (permalink)
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The other question of course is "if it's so a great potential money-maker, how come you don't make hardware for it?" - that's a hard one for HP to answer with any conviction.
Why would that be a question? Google and Microsoft also don't make hardware themselves for their OS'es, yet they're OS'es are popular.
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Old 03/23/2012, 05:22 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Valid argument. It will not happen with Samsung. It might happen with Huawei or Sharp. But even before that HP has ti showcase a phone which can beat / match current phones. Then they can talk about sharing some of the ecosystem revenue. The thing with eco system is there will be no apps if there are no devices. Its a chicken and egg thing. The only hope in the short term is lawsuits killing Android and the OEMs want another option. Which is not a great one.

On a strategic level, i.e 10 years down the line, it makes sense to own a mobile OS for Samsung (they have that BADA). While they make 2 billions every quarter they cannot guarantee repeating it every quarter. Actually it makes sense for HP to fix the webOS and start making hardware. These companies wants to make money like Apple without working hard.
Samsung using webOS... that's a really small chance. Didn't hear the news of the past few months? Samsung is focusing on Tizen to use on their phones as an alternative OS.
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Old 03/23/2012, 10:27 AM   #19 (permalink)
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It will certainly be an interesting ride over the next year, or so. First, I think we need to realize that while the OS is going to be open source, if it succeeds at any scale it will be with a few firms investing heavily in it and exercising enough influence to effectively control the direction of the OS. Perhaps the control would somehow be through the app catalog (ie they publish some set of standards for app submissions and commit to supporting and following it, or something like that). Someone could take the OS and do their own thing with it, but in the process they greatly restrict their access to applications and support (since the bigger players in this arena would have committed to this other path). Unless you're Amazon, I think that's an awful big price to pay and most would sign on to the communities vision for the OS. Yes, there will be hobbyists and some specialized versions of the OS, but anyone that wants to play on the webOS team in scale will likely (almost certainly) choose to be a part of the community and play nice with the other community members. I'm not an expert of open source governance structures, but it seems to me HP is setting up this project where someone who wanted to make devices could have a voice in the OS governance. I think this would be significantly different than Android and might appeal to some device manufacturers, especially firms like LG and Sony that do not appear to have had great success with Android and might want to leverage webOS for a bit more than just phones.

Nonetheless, a lot of webOS's future still rests on HP's next steps. This process takes a lot longer than any of us would like, but such is the reality of turning around a fairly large organization. Thus far, Ms. Whitman has, I think, made good decisions and seems committed to taking webOS as far as she can. If they can hit a solid double with a tablet device next year, I think webOS will have a solid shot a being back in the game.

If I were in her position, I would have my enterprise software folks working on some kind of enterprise package built on webOS I could push through my enterprise channels. It would probably be built on the idea of a true cloud based computing existence; a consistent computing experience and capabilities regardless of where you are and what device your are using. At the same time, I would have the hardware folks developing a tablet with specs and features acceptable to consumer and business customers with full tablet features that we can produce and sell at a price significantly less than the iPad and Samsung tablets. It's not a sexy strategy, but it leverages the competitive advantages HP can bring to the market and is the most likely strategy to gain significant market share. Ideally, HP would also leverage some of its additional holdings to bring features to the tablets and additional revenue streams to HP. By this, I'm thinking a full featured music/media management app built off of Melodeo to allow you manage your media from anywhere and something based of Snapfish for picture management and such. I will agree with the original poster that a truly ideal world would have HP and the OpenWebOS governance group announcing their new tablet at CES in 2013 with availability that day, or less than a month afterward and then whetting our appetite by announcing an agreement for (insert phone OEM here) to produce OpenWebOS phones which will run on ATT and/or Verizon.

We will see. Regardless, it should be an interesting ride

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Old 03/24/2012, 04:27 PM   #20 (permalink)
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#3 is only true because there will never be an OEM to pick up webOS, ever!

Do you even know what "open source " means? It means an OEM can modify the source all they want. And if they do, what do you think happens? That's right... fragmentation.
Fragmentation happened in android world because multiple oems wanted to differentiate themselves from the multitude of other android makers by adding an additional layer of UI. So no one was willing to update their ui every time google released a new version of Android which leads to multiple different versions. The cost of revising uis particularly when the phone is sold already is too much.
If an oem takes on webos it will be a company with some money and willing to risk who is NOT doing well in the android race. There won't be an immediate need to revise webos. If the world ends and webos becomes popular then that will become a new (maybe welcome!) problem in the future. If open webOS does do it right though, Oems won't have to modify too much.
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