webOS Nation Forums >  webOS Discussion >  Open webOS General Discussion > I want to see Open webOS make it, I really do, but can it?
I want to see Open webOS make it, I really do, but can it?
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Old 03/19/2012, 08:48 AM   #1 (permalink)
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I was just thinking of how back when I got my TouchPad on launch day how excited I was, and seeing all the commercials and expectations to come had filled me with joy. My Pre on Sprint at the time had a future OS with support and a future. Things were falling into place...we know how that ended...

Once Open webOS is fully out and developers are able to take full advantage of it, will we see advertising for it? Or will it just be an internet buzz for a few weeks? I dont believe HP would advertise on TV without any hardware.

But for me the heart of webOS is the phones and tablets working uniformly together. My hopeful vision was that the phone and tablet shared all apps/data via the cloud.

I currently own a Sprint Frankenpre2 and love it, but as a hardcore webOS user, I have stopped checking the app catalog and even preware I only check about once a week due to not much going on.

Will things pick up again? Will new developers be enticed with Enyo? I can surely hope so, but I am scared of what the future holds. I have time and time again set myself to think this is it, webOS is going to finally make it, but it hasnt yet.

I will use my phone until it dies and even then, probably get another webOS device off ebay unless new hardware is made available.

But what if Meg is canned as the CEO (it is HP afterall, so hard to say what they'll do) and a new CEO changes the course again...can ZombieOS continue to come back from the dead...I sure hope so.

I hope these forums come back to life and webOS gets another chance and finally gets a chance to shine and the community builds it stronger than ever. I just hope someone like HTC gives it a chance and makes a device or two...
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Old 03/19/2012, 09:40 AM   #2 (permalink)
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I think the only way Open webOS will have a fighting chance is if developers easily get it booting on Android hardware in the same way custom Android roms are loaded. Should that happen and more people start using it I think the non-existent chance of someone making hardware becomes at least a miniscule one.
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Old 03/19/2012, 10:13 AM   #3 (permalink)
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We all wish it comes back...

But we all know in hp's hands, its highly unlikely

Only hope is to dual boot it onto some Android device I think...or if another OS collapses like webos itself or blackberry...

Sigh
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Old 03/19/2012, 10:49 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Actually, it's up to us.

HP has dumped the whole thing, it does not mean anything to them anymore.

It depends on how much energy, resources (= money) and time we devote to this whole webOS thing.
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Old 03/19/2012, 02:35 PM   #5 (permalink)
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It needs some convincing message about why it would be a profitable platform for any OEM who picks it up - that has very little to do with the actual OS and I honestly don't know what that message would be.
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Old 03/19/2012, 04:02 PM   #6 (permalink)
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In terms of becoming a large scale competitor to iOS and Android, this is really still in HP's hands right now. Some mis-steps by iOS and Android would also be helpful. Nonetheless, competing at this level requires substantial capital investment and HP is the only firm likely to make such an investment. On the negative side, you've got a deck that is very stacked against you in the mobile market and tablet market. So, getting any carrier support and vendors on board might be difficult. On the positive side, Meg Whitman seems to have made webOS a pet project of sorts. As such, it has, thus far, gotten significant support and HP does seem to be standing behind the project.

It seems highly likely HP will issue some new hardware, eventually. I'd guess we'll see a wifi-only tablet first. The question then is what HP would do to make it a competitor product. Given the history with the Touchpad, a value proposition seems a plausible niche to try and fill. That would be, a competitive product in terms of specs and raw ability (obviously absent the app count of Android and iOS) at a pricepoint which undercuts comparable iOS and Android tablets. If such a product were moderately successful, we could see some renewed interest in the OS.

On the other hand, we likely will see a, relatively speaking, fair bit of interest in openWebOS as a hobby OS. That would not see a lot of hardware, but some porting of the OS onto other hardware. It will likely live like this forever.

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Old 03/19/2012, 04:30 PM   #7 (permalink)
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No. It would cost 5b for the next 3 years with a 1 other company in it with hp like nokia and windows. In 5 years there will only be 2 smartphones out there with major market share and that's windows and Ios. They just are too big of companies to fail. It will look like mac and pc
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Old 03/19/2012, 04:34 PM   #8 (permalink)
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They just are too big of companies to fail. It will look like mac and pc
That is until SkyNet takes over
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Old 03/20/2012, 07:10 AM   #9 (permalink)
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It needs some convincing message about why it would be a profitable platform for any OEM who picks it up - that has very little to do with the actual OS and I honestly don't know what that message would be.
Indeed. I mean, sure webOS isn't perfect, but If you look at the big picture, then the OS itself is nothing wrong with. It has awesome multitasking, great notifications, etc., etc. It just works, most of the time and that's enough for the big picture. It indeed needs some convincing message that the future is bright, not that the future is filled with "we drop it if it doesn't sell". That is what the OEM wants. They don't want perfection, they want an OS that can differentiate them and works well most of the time for the people they aim at and they want it to stand the time (bright future). WebOS has all but the last thing. Add that and at least 1 OEM will pick it up.
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Old 03/20/2012, 09:14 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Old 03/20/2012, 11:40 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Well, the fact of the matter is that there is a whole slew of new mobile OS's that are apparently now going the HTML5 route. It is funny how just 2 months ago or something that was the knock on webOS. webOS is 2.5 years ahead of all of them, and it is functional, elegant, and it is already there...
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Old 03/20/2012, 12:19 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Well, the fact of the matter is that there is a whole slew of new mobile OS's that are apparently now going the HTML5 route. It is funny how just 2 months ago or something that was the knock on webOS. webOS is 2.5 years ahead of all of them, and it is functional, elegant, and it is already there...
And has no hardware and so far no sign that anyone serious wants to put out any hardware - what that appears we have something to talk about beyond a fringe hobbyist thing, otherwise it's irrelevant how functional and elegant it is.
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Old 03/20/2012, 01:43 PM   #13 (permalink)
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And has no hardware and so far no sign that anyone serious wants to put out any hardware - what that appears we have something to talk about beyond a fringe hobbyist thing, otherwise it's irrelevant how functional and elegant it is.
I'm guessing there will be no new hardware for sure untill HP fully open license webOS. Probably not even then. But if someone is seriously interested in webOS, they certainly would not jump now, like they haven't jumped when HP canceled hardware. Not because webOS is absolute failure, it's because webOS is still not clear business model. Beside open licensing OS core components, HP must build new business model that fits needs of manufacturers. I'm not sure that Samsung and others are willing to count on webOS internals or other group as carriers of future webOS development, so HP still needs to commit money and manpower to webOS. Large manufacturers don't want to develop webOS. Thay want to use it, and to be able to use it, they want HP to develop it, like Google develops Android.
That is why in my opinion no one jumped to license webOS when HP was ready to give it to others, because just saying "we are licensing it now' doesent mean we are indeed ready to license it, or we are capable to do it right way.
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Old 03/20/2012, 02:05 PM   #14 (permalink)
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And has no hardware and so far no sign that anyone serious wants to put out any hardware - what that appears we have something to talk about beyond a fringe hobbyist thing, otherwise it's irrelevant how functional and elegant it is.
pretty much all those issues are due to HP/apotheker/board/etc rather than webOS itsself, the easy way to fix 1 big issue is ACL, most android users wouldnt want to switch to anything that couldnt run their purchased apps, if webOS could do just that then thats 1 large hurdle cleared at the very least.
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Old 03/20/2012, 02:17 PM   #15 (permalink)
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I think it depends on how attracted developers are to open webOS. Once it goes completely open and devs have access to everything, it might spark interest. If it sparks enough, I think it would be wise for HP to THEN release something new to see if it has a hope of lasting. Then if again, it fails, they will probably give up for good. But first things first, they need to get everything out to the public and see how developers react. If you think about it, thanks to the fire sales, a lot of developers already have a Touchpad even if they are using it mainly for Android. Once webOS is open, they might dabble in a little bit of webOS developing.
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Old 03/20/2012, 02:56 PM   #16 (permalink)
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The question is misleadingly phrased.

It's not a matter of *can* it. Of course it *can* - if circumstances are right.

It's not a matter of possibility - but a matter of likelyhood.

It is likely that webos will continue to exist in a small non-commercial niche, because there are enough tech geeks who like to hack on their own system and like to have an open alternative. So I do think that open webos will continue to be around on a fraction of a percent, installed on Android or WP7+ hardware.

It is much less likely that it will be mass installed on dedicated hardware again.

For that to happen a company (HP or otherwise) would have to have a need for a mobile OS - and for some reason can't or don't want to use Android or W(P)7/8. HP is obviously trying to go with W8 for now and everybody else uses Android.

That could happen if WP7/W8 flops (not entirely unlikely) and there is a good reason against Android (much less likely - but possible given the escalating patent wars and Googles aquisition of Motorola).

I wouldn't bet on it though.
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Old 03/20/2012, 03:25 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Realistically speaking how attracted are developers going to be to a platform with no home? Why would they spend their hours deveoping with no hope of making a return. The way I see it, hp open sourcing webos is a result of no one being interested in it. As soon as they open source it they will gradually distant themselves from it until there are no ties left.
Once/If people are able to port webOS to an android phone, that alone will open up doors. People never wanted a webOS phone because of the hardware, or the lack of apps, but if people have the option to flash back and forth from webOS to Android easily without having to buy a webOS phone or tablet, they will be more open to developing for it. If webOS is more available to developers, there WILL be development. Wether its a lot or a little. I don't think anyone is expecting HP to do any major development when it goes open source. I think this is going to be community driven which, in my opinion, is a lot better.
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Old 03/20/2012, 04:01 PM   #18 (permalink)
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There is one thing, and one thing alone, that will make or break webOS - an OEM. When I say OEM, I mean a real honest to goodness existing OEM, not one that is cobbled together via well intentioned folks here from the forums.

Without it, webOS is doomed to the life of a hobbyist OS. No matter how many devices it may be ported to, no matter how wonderful it's bells and whistles are, without a true OEM to make devices that go through the normal distribution channels for mobile devices to be on carriers it will not make a splash.
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Old 03/20/2012, 04:47 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Once/If people are able to port webOS to an android phone, that alone will open up doors. People never wanted a webOS phone because of the hardware, or the lack of apps, but if people have the option to flash back and forth from webOS to Android easily without having to buy a webOS phone or tablet, they will be more open to developing for it. If webOS is more available to developers, there WILL be development. Wether its a lot or a little. I don't think anyone is expecting HP to do any major development when it goes open source. I think this is going to be community driven which, in my opinion, is a lot better.

You aren't describing any sizable number of people - if you spend too long on tech forums, you can get a warped idea of what people are doing with their phones - people who flash their phones are not normal (and I flash my phones).

Think about it, developers complain about supporting all sorts of screen resolutions across a range of android handsets for little return - think about what a nightmare it would be trying to support a community where all of the hardware is basically 'borrowed' and it's very difficult to work out which handsets are most people for flashing, which versions of webos they are running (because as soon as it's open, we will see tons of roms).

We'd get plenty of homebrew apps that way but nobody major is going to jump on.
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Old 03/20/2012, 05:03 PM   #20 (permalink)
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You aren't describing any sizable number of people - if you spend too long on tech forums, you can get a warped idea of what people are doing with their phones - people who flash their phones are not normal (and I flash my phones).

Think about it, developers complain about supporting all sorts of screen resolutions across a range of android handsets for little return - think about what a nightmare it would be trying to support a community where all of the hardware is basically 'borrowed' and it's very difficult to work out which handsets are most people for flashing, which versions of webos they are running (because as soon as it's open, we will see tons of roms).

We'd get plenty of homebrew apps that way but nobody major is going to jump on.
I'm not saying it will attract manufacturer or carrier interest. I think for a long time, it will be community driven. I dont know. Since being on Android, I have been a member over at XDA and see the developers creating ROMs and patches just because they can. Not for money. A lot of developers over there make one ROM for one specific phone. I dont think it will be any different if webOS was able to be ported. But that one ROM can spark interest in another developer, and another and so on. Its not impossible to say that webOS cant get people interested from the Android community when A LOT of past webOS users went that direction anyway. I dont see it coming back to the mainstream anytime soon. But I think it could make a small impact on the people who hang out here in the forums. I wasnt really talking about developers making apps for money. But in the long run, with enough interest, that could come slowly too. I'm optimistic. lol
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