webOS Nation Forums >  webOS Discussion >  Open webOS General Discussion > I want to see Open webOS make it, I really do, but can it?
I want to see Open webOS make it, I really do, but can it?
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Old 03/20/2012, 06:15 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Don't give up just yet - nothing in this market is certain. I'd love to go back to WebOS if it had some decent apps.

Smartphones are still a new idea really and there's a lot of change. For me the most exciting idea is an ecosystem of HTML5 apps that can be run on various operating systems, which seems to be coming soon. Whether WebOS can compete technically is another question. But we're going to reach a point where there's a lot of redundant handsets that are still pretty powerful hardware and ripe for some alternative OS magic.
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Old 03/20/2012, 07:17 PM   #22 (permalink)
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There is one thing, and one thing alone, that will make or break webOS - an OEM. When I say OEM, I mean a real honest to goodness existing OEM, not one that is cobbled together via well intentioned folks here from the forums.

Without it, webOS is doomed to the life of a hobbyist OS. No matter how many devices it may be ported to, no matter how wonderful it's bells and whistles are, without a true OEM to make devices that go through the normal distribution channels for mobile devices to be on carriers it will not make a splash.
Yes I think a OEM or two is key to webOS surviving. It's not worth HPs time to make a free hobbyist OS to graft on to a android device. Even with recent layoffs, there still some webOS staff who are working on open webOS and still developer support staff. That would be a complete waste a money for HP at this point if there wasn't a small chance of new webOS devices. What I picture happened was HP tried to sell Palm to anyone and everyone laughed at the price they wanted. HP tried a lower price but no one was willing to bite given the incredibly competitive mobile field.
So HP asked, what would you need before you consider using webOS? An open source version with no strings attached. A polished next version of webOS with no lag, better browser, easier and better development tools. So HP is trying to do that. Question is whether there will be any takers? Maybe if open webOS is good enough and it is easy enough to load on a hardware device without costly development costs. . If let's say samsung thought webOS was great and easy to throw on the next galaxy tablet without lots of costly programming, then that would be a reasonable decision. Same with smartphones. Hoping that individual users load webOS on their devices (voiding warranties, support) in large enough numbers to create a viable market would be a crazy pipedream.
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Old 03/20/2012, 08:46 PM   #23 (permalink)
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I can't see any of HP's current investment in webOS as anything more than a hedge against the failure of Windows 8 on their new tablet(s). If HP does not treat webOS any better than a hobby I don't know why anyone else would.
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Old 03/20/2012, 11:32 PM   #24 (permalink)
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it wuold never work with any carriers.
Is that really correct though? Would the carriers even be aware that the phone OS had changed? My impression is that the IMEI info (or whatever this info is called in different types of phones) could remain the same even if the operating system is changed, and so far as the network is concerned it would be the same phone...do correct me if I'm wrong about this.
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Old 03/21/2012, 05:41 AM   #25 (permalink)
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I quees we'll see. Every time I try to show off my Pre 2 at work, al I usually get is "whats webos"? I pretty much gave up a lomg time ago and just enjoy it for myself. It's going to be a really hard long uphill battle though.
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Old 03/21/2012, 10:26 AM   #26 (permalink)
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The key to getting an OEM to invest significant dollars in hardware for webOS is having the platform being a part of a some sort of competitive advantage for that firm and/or other options providing less of a competitive advantage. HP's actions to date strongly suggest a role for webOS in their future endeavors. Exactly what that is remains to be seen. My guess would be they envision webOS as a platform on which they can build value added services and such. They might also position it as an open, but more secure, mobile alternative to Android (given, from what I've read, Android is an IT security nightmare).

I suspect a lot of webOS's future rides on the success of the future of the webOS tablet HP will (almost certainly, given Meg's comments,) produce. I don't think this has to blow the doors off the competition in terms of sales, but it likely needs to have solid sales. If it does, you would likely pique the interest of other OEM's. Of course, solid webOS device sales might also spur HP to expand its offerings (I note here that RIM's market capitilization is down to nearly $7B).

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Old 03/21/2012, 02:30 PM   #27 (permalink)
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As I said, webOS future is not only related to performance and features of OS. Its more related to HP and their vision of webOS support and development. If HP abandons webOS and leave it without structured and well financed support, no OEM would touch webOS even if it performs better than iOS. If webOS ends only as community effort no OEM will risk to byte. It doesn't matters how webOS is licensed, what only matters is who will provide support, evolutionary development roadmap etc. I'm really curious to see how HP planned to maintain open Webos, but obviously not by following Google's footsteps. By shrinking webos business group, HP is sending signals that they are not planning to aggressively push open webOS.
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Old 03/22/2012, 10:19 AM   #28 (permalink)
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As I said, webOS future is not only related to performance and features of OS. Its more related to HP and their vision of webOS support and development. If HP abandons webOS and leave it without structured and well financed support, no OEM would touch webOS even if it performs better than iOS. If webOS ends only as community effort no OEM will risk to byte. It doesn't matters how webOS is licensed, what only matters is who will provide support, evolutionary development roadmap etc. I'm really curious to see how HP planned to maintain open Webos, but obviously not by following Google's footsteps. By shrinking webos business group, HP is sending signals that they are not planning to aggressively push open webOS.

I wouldn't read quite that much into any current re-allocation of resources. Any firm needs all its assets to be productive (even one that has been as dysfunctional as HP for the last couple years), so if HP had too many resources dedicated to webOS for the amount of work that was going to be done there, the only choice is really to re-allocate those resources elsewhere. This does not preclude adding resources to webOS as the market and firm strategy require it.

Moreover, one of the biggest problems at HP seems to be redundancy in operations and a lack of cohesive focus for all the business units. So, rather than have a webOS business unit with its own hardware segment a better strategy might be for the webOS unit to be smaller and focussed on implementing the overall webOS operating system strategy and when it is time to produce a new tablet a new product line is added to the hardware business unit (which also makes HP's Windows 8 tablets, notebooks, etc.) which will hopefully allow HP to fully maximize its economies of scale.

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Old 04/03/2012, 02:18 PM   #29 (permalink)
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I have high hopes, like everyone else; but I temper that with the cold reality that WebOS is very likely going to be more of a 'hobby' for HP rather than a high priority item. I just don't see them investing the cash in it, especially now that they've lollygagged around long enough that iOS and Android have pretty much taken over the market.

That said, I think its long term viability in the smartphone and tablet market is already fading, and it'll probably end up as a niche market plaything and a cheap OS for HP to utilize on their 'smart' print devices.

I could be wrong... but I dunno. I'd be really surprised if WebOS can pull out of a third death spiral. Pleasantly surprised, no doubt... but surprised nonetheless.
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Old 04/09/2012, 04:58 AM   #30 (permalink)
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Just a thought here, but since HP is making Windows based tablets, what's to stop them from throwing webOS on there in a dual boot setup once it's all open-sourced? it would be a cost-effective way for them to get folks to try it out on existing hardware and guage feedback and even get statistics on how many people prefer webOS over windows and what they're using it for, at least for those willing to participate/provide feedback.
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Old 04/09/2012, 10:22 AM   #31 (permalink)
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Just a thought here, but since HP is making Windows based tablets, what's to stop them from throwing webOS on there in a dual boot setup once it's all open-sourced? it would be a cost-effective way for them to get folks to try it out on existing hardware and guage feedback and even get statistics on how many people prefer webOS over windows and what they're using it for, at least for those willing to participate/provide feedback.
Personally, I think that would be a stroke of genius on their part; I'd be delighted to see them do that... and to see WebOS finally running on some more robust hardware!
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Old 04/09/2012, 10:34 PM   #32 (permalink)
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This would make it difficult, but not impossible, for Linux operating systems to be installed on Windows 8 computers. Hardware manufacturers can still give users the option of disabling secure boot and running any operating system they wish. However, it now appears that flexibility will only be available to Windows 8 systems running on Intel chips, and not ARM ones.[/I]

Microsoft mandating Secure Boot on ARM, making Linux installs difficult
I would be very surprised if some enterprising hackers don't find a way to bypass this restriction.
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Old 04/10/2012, 09:10 PM   #33 (permalink)
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Windows 8 hardware certification requirements actually forbid device makers from enabling custom boot modes. Basically the bootloader on any device that ships with Windows 8 on ARM will be able to boot Windows… and nothing else.

With Windows 8 coming out later this year, there has already been controversy about whether computers that ship with Windows 8 will have the ability to run Linux, either as a replacement for Windows or in a dual-boot setup. As we've reported, a process called UEFI secure booting prevents the booting of operating systems not signed by a trusted Certificate Authority—and hardware makers must enable the secure boot technology to qualify for a Designed for Windows 8 logo.

This would make it difficult, but not impossible, for Linux operating systems to be installed on Windows 8 computers. Hardware manufacturers can still give users the option of disabling secure boot and running any operating system they wish. However, it now appears that flexibility will only be available to Windows 8 systems running on Intel chips, and not ARM ones.


Microsoft mandating Secure Boot on ARM, making Linux installs difficult

Ah man i didnt realize that, that's totally **** move on MS part putting that requirement in there. I'm sure there's a legitimate reason to do it, but doubt their motivation is in the best interest of consumers. Probably they didn't l ike companies doing that with netbooks with dual boot of ubuntu/xp (IIRC).. Maybe HP can find a way around that, like partition off enough room and give guidelines on how to install webOS after the device 'ships'. Or maybe get open webOS signed so UEFI trusts it? Just spitballing.. i'm at work and don't have time to read up on it atm.
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Old 04/11/2012, 10:50 AM   #34 (permalink)
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The only way for open webos to win, is to get an awesome really good hardware partner that takes on the whole os development including software development. remember webOS got traction and won our hearts because they used the same strategy as apple by making their own hardware and software, this is the only way they got webos this good and now they ruined it so it will only make sense if a great partner comes in and develop everything while keeping it open source.

But the idea that webos can win if it can be ported is just insane!!! how on earth will it get any real market if all whose running it are hackers and techies who know how to hack their phones, zero developers will come and a negligible marketshare, if really that's all what hp planned for then they might as well quit now and cut their loses.
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Old 04/11/2012, 12:48 PM   #35 (permalink)
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i hope it makes it too. i've been trying cm9 for a little while, and it is 'ok' but not amazing or anything. in fact i say it is worse in several ways compared to webos.

but i do have to give android props for having a better web browsing experience. i wish webos browser had that predictive text when typing. that is really a nifty feature.

but in terms of multitasking, webos blows it out of the water
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Old 04/12/2012, 05:24 PM   #36 (permalink)
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HP stock up today after gartner siad that their pc sales grew year over year above 7% and interestingly, a larger jump than anyone else. Welcome news after all those periods of Apotheker slump. Maybe Meg is really fixing things. Hope so.
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Old 04/12/2012, 08:54 PM   #37 (permalink)
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HP stock up today after gartner siad that their pc sales grew year over year above 7% and interestingly, a larger jump than anyone else. Welcome news after all those periods of Apotheker slump. Maybe Meg is really fixing things. Hope so.
The figures are probably exaggerated by rising from the low after Apotheker's stupid cancellation of hardware decision.
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