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Should HP make a "Nexus"?
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Old 03/09/2012, 09:09 PM   #61 (permalink)
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I see how this works:

Anyone Else:

Hp could do this:

CGK:

It'll never sell

Soneone else:

Well, they could try this:

CGK:

It'll never make it!

3rd man in:

They could try this... This and possibly this:

CGK:

Their D O O M E D!!!!!!


shhheeeeeeeshhhh!!!
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Old 03/10/2012, 02:51 AM   #62 (permalink)
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Well they are doomed unless they invest the billions needed, the desperate nickle and dime stuff you people are talking about simply isn't going to cut it. WebOS could come back but it needs that high level of investment and the building of a wide-ranging ecosystem, nothing else will do.

What do you want me to do? Lie and say that stupid ideas with no chance of working are amazing?

Someone on the frontpage put it far better than I could:

Quote:
Posted by jessicatapley on Fri, 09 Mar 2012 9:25 pm EST

First off, the purpose of a Nexus device is NOT to "attract OEMs". Android has plenty of them already. They issue Nexus devices because they want to release a pure Android experience tuned to a specific OS version. The Nexus One showed off Eclair and Froyo. The Nexus S showed off Gingerbread. The Galaxy Nexus did it for Ice Cream Sandwich.

Since there are NO "skinned" versions of webOS to distinguish from or even interested manufacturers, that very concept is ludicrous.

As for attracting OEMs, releasing reference hardware does nothing to accomplish that. This isn't an Ultrabook, and HP isn't Intel. Mobile Phone OEMs are attracted by HP or Google or Microsoft or Apple offering a well-bankrolled ecosystem with lots of apps and developer interest that will make carriers happy. They already have their own supply chain, preferred SoC and display tech, and design principles. Samsung isn't going to release a regular TFT display device anymore than HTC will use NOVA displays anymore than LG will use Super AMOLED Plus. And each has had multiple opportunities to buy or license webOS if they wanted or needed it so bad. Not one Android OEM has ever made a competitive bid. ZERO.

What they need is the app/content/integration ecosystem. Since HP failed miserably at putting that together even when they were spending billions, there is no way they will accomplish this with a skeleton crew, way less money invested, and more competition than ever.

Nobody is "wasting time on this forum posting about a dead blah blah blah". The OS will survive, but not as a modern commercially-viable product. There's nothing wrong with acknowledging that. It's not naysaying to feel moisture falling on your head and to call it rain. In HP's case, it's a monsoon.
Either HP (or someone else) is willing to spend billions or it's dead - it's as simple as that.
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Old 03/10/2012, 06:15 AM   #63 (permalink)
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Hey, people... relax with CGK...

He was always bitter with this bad humor, and is fighting to nobody stay in webOS... in the same way that Jobs was fighting against the Android... only this!

Now, let's gonna leave the CGK's heart explode in your chest:

My friend, IF (and I'm saying "IF") you see the android in the begin, was with exactly all this problems that are you describing now (no apps, no this, no that, etc, etc, etc)... and we know what is the situation today, no?

So, I ask you: what was the "right" thing to do, to raise webOS? Have you something really good to say and suggest to we talk about or are you only here to insert your "realistic" vision, trying to "fish" webOS users to Android or; in last times, WP?

I'm really interested in your point seeing in other side of the knife...


Best Regards...
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Last edited by Rnp; 03/10/2012 at 06:33 AM.
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Old 03/10/2012, 06:18 AM   #64 (permalink)
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Mad? I tell you guys what you go on about how magical the pre 3 is so much, I've just sourced one so I can see what big draw is.

Sent from my Lumia 800 using Board Express
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Old 03/10/2012, 07:01 AM   #65 (permalink)
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Forget CGK, I'm the one that is about ready to blow my top with people putting up the same circular arguments that are blatantly ignoring valid points put forward by others.

"As for attracting OEMs, releasing reference hardware does nothing to accomplish that. This isn't an Ultrabook, and HP isn't Intel. Mobile Phone OEMs are attracted by HP or Google or Microsoft or Apple offering a well-bankrolled ecosystem with lots of apps and developer interest that will make carriers happy. They already have their own supply chain, preferred SoC and display tech, and design principles. Samsung isn't going to release a regular TFT display device anymore than HTC will use NOVA displays anymore than LG will use Super AMOLED Plus. And each has had multiple opportunities to buy or license webOS if they wanted or needed it so bad. Not one Android OEM has ever made a competitive bid. ZERO."

Again with the top tier manufacturers. Again with the mobile carriers. Mentioning what Samsung an HTC will never do.

HAVEN'T WE ALREADY ESTABLISHED THAT THE TOP TIER MANUFACTURERS ARE NOT INTERESTED, AND NEITHER ARE THE CARRIERS, BUT THERE ARE OTHER EFFECTIVE WAYS TO GET PRODUCTS INTO THE HANDS OF CONSUMERS???

Please be advised that the manufacturing world is not comprised solely of those top tier companies, and that the mobile device market is only ruled by the carriers in a few markets. This skewed US/UK-centric view of what the market is like and what the possible routes to success are is seriously blinding some to alternatives that can be taken to get webOS out there into the hands of consumers. The USA and the UK is not the world for goodness sake!
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Old 03/10/2012, 07:11 AM   #66 (permalink)
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Might as well continue ranting since I've got myself all worked up! How quickly people forget that just a few short years ago the US was often the last to get the latest handsets and features! Now, all of a sudden people believe that if something can't succeed in the US market, then it can't be marketed successfully elsewhere, as if the US market idiosyncrasies apply to the whole world??? Come on people....
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Old 03/10/2012, 07:32 AM   #67 (permalink)
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"First off, the purpose of a Nexus device is NOT to "attract OEMs". Android has plenty of them already. They issue Nexus devices because they want to release a pure Android experience tuned to a specific OS version. The Nexus One showed off Eclair and Froyo. The Nexus S showed off Gingerbread. The Galaxy Nexus did it for Ice Cream Sandwich.

Since there are NO "skinned" versions of webOS to distinguish from or even interested manufacturers, that very concept is ludicrous."


Lastly, this statement is accurate, but misleading. Yes, Google does not put out the Nexus in order to attract OEM's - that is very true. But other companies do put out reference hardware to attract OEM's!

Please review the following video and listen to the the reasons given for why this reference design device was put out there:

Qualcomm Reference Design Smartphone Hands On - YouTube
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Old 03/10/2012, 12:12 PM   #68 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rnp View Post
Hey, people... relax with CGK...

He was always bitter with this bad humor, and is fighting to nobody stay in webOS... in the same way that Jobs was fighting against the Android... only this!

Now, let's gonna leave the CGK's heart explode in your chest:

My friend, IF (and I'm saying "IF") you see the android in the begin, was with exactly all this problems that are you describing now (no apps, no this, no that, etc, etc, etc)... and we know what is the situation today, no?

So, I ask you: what was the "right" thing to do, to raise webOS? Have you something really good to say and suggest to we talk about or are you only here to insert your "realistic" vision, trying to "fish" webOS users to Android or; in last times, WP?

I'm really interested in your point seeing in other side of the knife...


Best Regards...
Well, the market is drastically different than when Android was starting. Remember webOS was starting then too. Frankly Palm did not have the money Google did and that is why webOS couldn't make it the way android did. Their and HP's steadfastness in not licensing webOS is what gravely hurt it. Now they can't give it away.

So to answer your question, what's the difference? Google invested billions in building up Android. What is HP doing? Cutting costs, cutting employees, and hoping someone will produce a device. HP had said they will not make a smartphone, so tablets is the only thing they have left and with that they have basically said they won't do that for at least a year. By that time, given the current direction, webOS will be withering on the vine.
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Old 03/11/2012, 11:33 AM   #69 (permalink)
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"First off, the purpose of a Nexus device is NOT to "attract OEMs". Android has plenty of them already. They issue Nexus devices because they want to release a pure Android experience tuned to a specific OS version. The Nexus One showed off Eclair and Froyo. The Nexus S showed off Gingerbread. The Galaxy Nexus did it for Ice Cream Sandwich.

Since there are NO "skinned" versions of webOS to distinguish from or even interested manufacturers, that very concept is ludicrous."


I do think there is a demand for non-skinned Android, but it's the showcasing of the new release that drives the Nexus program, and this is what HP needs going forward. They have open sourced in the hope that the community will drive innovation of the platform faster than they could in-house.(or at least that's their spin) So, if the community, with webOS Internals, does improve on the OS and we see new features and support for maturing hardware, such as NFC, then a theoretical "webOS 4.0" release should be paired with a "Nexus".
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Old 03/11/2012, 02:06 PM   #70 (permalink)
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I think they should, and they should partner with a carrier and manufacture. ATT got burned, and Verizon probably wouldn't be interested. Sprint might be interested, but they shouldn't start with the phone. They should start with a Nexus Tablet, and start the ground work from there. If they can prove they are willing to spend the money to get a tablet sold then the carriers will see HP has a change of heart. I am sure they all can understand what a change of CEO's can do, and it seems HP has found it's footing again.

But WebOS was born on the smartphone, and it should be there again...
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Old 03/11/2012, 02:26 PM   #71 (permalink)
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They need to get making some sort of hardware, otherwise it doesn't matter a bit how good their open source OS is, it's entirely irrelevant (and some might say that's already the case).
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Old 03/12/2012, 04:03 PM   #72 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by jakko View Post
Every single webos phone released was a flop.
I guess you'll have to clarify that statement. Sales wasn't as good as one would hope and I'd agree that for the 3 years it was out, sales was a flop. Developer uptake wasn't so bad, but I'm guessing this was predicated by the lousy sales. The phone itself, however, wasn't a flop. As a user of the device, I've been satisfied with the Pre and have gotten more so with each generation. Judging from the statement of other webOS phone users, I'd say that would be the general consensus.

The biggest flop with the webOS phone, however, would be marketing. I'm sure there were a ton of technical issues around hardware and software that couldn't be resolved in the time they had with the resources Palm then HP had, but marketing and advertising was only limited by financing and by the amount of money they put into it, I'm sure that wasn't a problem either. Apple in the last couple of years is a master of packaging their product and marketing it, making people want the product. For the longest time, Microsoft could make a bug-ridden product look like the something people couldn't do without. HP and Palm? Not so much.
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Old 03/12/2012, 05:17 PM   #73 (permalink)
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At least proof of concept on a slab phone which is state of the art in August and has the ability to get user worldwide, meaning not on Sprint of Verizon, would just do it for me.

I would be willing to buy a decent HTC Sensation or something else if I could put webOS with ease on there.

If not I'll be switching over to the next iPhone. Simple as that.
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Old 03/13/2012, 12:10 PM   #74 (permalink)
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To say "Every single webos phone released was a flop" Is just straight up absolute crap. (unless you are really only counting the pre)

1. The Treo650 was one of the most popular smart phones for YEARS!
2. The Pre3 never even had an opportunity.

But back to the Treo. For 3 years I carried around my touchscreen treo device (starting out w/ the 600) I played music, Watched tv, read the news (from all places) booked movie tickets through fandango, played video games and much much more...

The Iphone came out and all the sudden, no other phone could do those things.. (Baffles me to this day)

But back on topic...

I keep reading that w/ out spending big money & making a device through HP that Open WebOS will not survive.. Or well at least not come back from the wraths of hell that we are in..

But I recall watching a movie (Pirates of the silicon valley) Where yes, Bill gates basically stole Apple's OS and designed Windows.. But the point is.. The last time I checked.. and forgive me if i'm wrong.. But when did Windows make a desktop computer? or a Laptop? or when did they make a Tablet?

I'm not sure how much money was poured into Windows & advertising at first.. But I do assume they didn't have the same type of advertising power they have now... Great Designs/ Great Innovation & a strong backing will find a way.
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Old 03/13/2012, 12:41 PM   #75 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Zukny View Post

But back to the Treo. For 3 years I carried around my touchscreen treo device (starting out w/ the 600) I played music, Watched tv, read the news (from all places) booked movie tickets through fandango, played video games and much much more...

The Iphone came out and all the sudden, no other phone could do those things.. (Baffles me to this day)
Marketing. Apple won because of the marketing. "There's an app for that" was an amazingly simple, catchy and effective slogan and series of ads. Couple that with the cutting edge look and feel of the product, and that made an unstoppable combination.
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Old 03/13/2012, 12:58 PM   #76 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by CGK View Post


Yes because the supply is too small for the demand - why is this hard to understand? There is still a hardcore who want this device but that does not scale.

Just because you have a few thousand hardcore fans chasing a few hundred devices that doesn't mean if you knock out 500,000 that they will sell...

Edit: Having said that, looking on the UK ebay, they don't seem to have held their price - they are going for about 99-130. My old cheapo ZTE blade is going for similar prices...
CGK,
Know what, I think there is a demand, though not millions but some.

How do you explain this ? there are 20 bids for a Sprint Palm Pre.

Palm Pre - 8GB - Black (Sprint) Smartphone + Touchstone Charger and Extras (805931036766) | eBay
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Old 03/13/2012, 12:59 PM   #77 (permalink)
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Old 03/13/2012, 01:01 PM   #78 (permalink)
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I am still in disbelief that there are folks ready to buy a failed Sprint PALM Pre !!!!!!!

Back on topic, just bring back webOS in Nexus form factor.
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Old 03/13/2012, 01:44 PM   #79 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by aia832003 View Post
"First off, the purpose of a Nexus device is NOT to "attract OEMs". Android has plenty of them already. They issue Nexus devices because they want to release a pure Android experience tuned to a specific OS version. The Nexus One showed off Eclair and Froyo. The Nexus S showed off Gingerbread. The Galaxy Nexus did it for Ice Cream Sandwich.

Since there are NO "skinned" versions of webOS to distinguish from or even interested manufacturers, that very concept is ludicrous."


I do think there is a demand for non-skinned Android, but it's the showcasing of the new release that drives the Nexus program, and this is what HP needs going forward. They have open sourced in the hope that the community will drive innovation of the platform faster than they could in-house.(or at least that's their spin) So, if the community, with webOS Internals, does improve on the OS and we see new features and support for maturing hardware, such as NFC, then a theoretical "webOS 4.0" release should be paired with a "Nexus".
Very well said.
The purpose of Nexus in Google's case is to showcase their software, kind of create design rules. Android was a mess until Matias joined them.
The purpose of HP making a device should be to tell the potential OEMs ( not the HTCs and Samsungs ..) like Huawei to take risk.
Have we seen any s4 inch slab phone with webOS ? nope. I would like to see how it works.
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Old 03/13/2012, 01:58 PM   #80 (permalink)
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CGK,
Know what, I think there is a demand, though not millions but some.

How do you explain this ? there are 20 bids for a Sprint Palm Pre.

Palm Pre - 8GB - Black (Sprint) Smartphone + Touchstone Charger and Extras (805931036766) | eBay


How do I explain that 6 hardcore fans bid $47 for a phone? didn't my post that you quoted explain it in plenty of detail?
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