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HP: Stop the FUD and show us the real webOS source.
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Old 02/21/2012, 05:23 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by addiarmadar View Post
We should not be surprised by not having an independent board after-all HP spent a pretty penny for it and still wants to make sure their investment goes right. Maybe down the road we'll such board but not during this transition period from closed source coding to open source.
But the problem is that HP is making a big fuss about the whole thing by making a comparison to Android's level of open source-ness.

How can HP convince other hardware manufacturers to make say a webos tablet when HP is keeping the PC division and will probably make ARM-based Microsoft Windows 8 tablets than can possibly dual-boot to webos at any time. This is the same argument that HP is throwing out at Google for buying Motorola.
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Old 02/21/2012, 05:27 PM   #22 (permalink)
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But the problem is that HP is making a big fuss about the whole thing by making a comparison to Android's level of open source-ness.

How can HP convince other hardware manufacturers to make say a webos tablet when HP is keeping the PC division and will probably make ARM-based Microsoft Windows 8 tablets than can possibly dual-boot to webos at any time. This is the same argument that HP is throwing out at Google for buying Motorola.
Again like a said earlier, still a work in progress. HP is working on beating Google's level of open-source.

There is a tentative deadline this coming September so lets all reserve judgement till then.
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Old 02/21/2012, 05:30 PM   #23 (permalink)
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I think that any reasonable person sees that HP is prepared to accept external independent input into the process. Rod's official position and the amount that they have spent to include him in the process is plenty of evidence for that.
Any reasonable for-profit corporation would want to look at what open source governance structure, what specific open source license... BEFORE they even consider making webos hardware.

It doesn't make sense for HP to make a big fuss about how Android is supposedly close source when webos is governed by the same Apache license and using the same non-independent governance structures.

It doesn't make sense for HP to make a big fuss about how Google is buying Motorola is a bad thing when HP is keeping their PC division --- which HP is very likely to make an ARM-based Windows 8 tablet that can possibly dual boot to webos, thus stealing businesses from potential webos hardware partners.
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Old 02/21/2012, 05:33 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by addiarmadar View Post
Again like a said earlier, still a work in progress. HP is working on beating Google's level of open-source.

There is a tentative deadline this coming September so lets all reserve judgement till then.
I disagree with you. The business models and governance structures MUST come first because potential partners wouldn't even spend a dime until they know what they are getting into.
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Old 02/21/2012, 06:25 PM   #25 (permalink)
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The business models and governance structures MUST come first because potential partners wouldn't even spend a dime until they know what they are getting into.
Those are indeed things that potential partners would consider, in addition to the very important aspects of required per-device royalty payments and patent liability issues for each of the open source platforms ...

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Old 02/22/2012, 08:37 AM   #26 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by samab View Post
Any reasonable for-profit corporation would want to look at what open source governance structure, what specific open source license... BEFORE they even consider making webos hardware.

It doesn't make sense for HP to make a big fuss about how Android is supposedly close source when webos is governed by the same Apache license and using the same non-independent governance structures.

It doesn't make sense for HP to make a big fuss about how Google is buying Motorola is a bad thing when HP is keeping their PC division --- which HP is very likely to make an ARM-based Windows 8 tablet that can possibly dual boot to webos, thus stealing businesses from potential webos hardware partners.
Well, the M$ made a funeral to Rim and Apple with Windows Phone... relax, this is only ads...


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Old 02/22/2012, 08:46 AM   #27 (permalink)
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Well, the M$ made a funeral to Rim and Apple with Windows Phone... relax, this is only ads...
RIM maybe, but Apple? Dream on, they're still the dominant force in the smartphone market. WP7 is a mere drop in the ocean to them.
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Old 02/22/2012, 10:02 AM   #28 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by samab View Post
Any reasonable for-profit corporation would want to look at what open source governance structure, what specific open source license... BEFORE they even consider making webos hardware.

It doesn't make sense for HP to make a big fuss about how Android is supposedly close source when webos is governed by the same Apache license and using the same non-independent governance structures.

It doesn't make sense for HP to make a big fuss about how Google is buying Motorola is a bad thing when HP is keeping their PC division --- which HP is very likely to make an ARM-based Windows 8 tablet that can possibly dual boot to webos, thus stealing businesses from potential webos hardware partners.

I think the core difference here is the existing business model for each. HP has never said their intent, or business model, is to be the wild, wild west of tablet/phone OS's, like Android is. HP is in the process of open sourcing the OS, so anyone can take it up, but I suspect HP's desire would be to have one, or two, close partners in this endeavour rather than a slew of OEM's putting their own face on the OS and pushing product out the door. Google's entire business model with Android is the latter. This fact is what makes Google's acquisition of Motorola's mobile unit so strange, and potentially opens a door for webOS, or some other platform. Yes, Meg overstated things and Google is not going to close-source Android, but, protestations aside, Motorola is going to get preferential treatment from Google. As an OEM struggling to make money on Android phones (and reports are that while market share has increased only Samsung is really making money on Android hardware) that at least has to start making you think about diversifying your product lines.

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Old 02/22/2012, 11:00 AM   #29 (permalink)
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I think the core difference here is the existing business model for each. HP has never said their intent, or business model, is to be the wild, wild west of tablet/phone OS's, like Android is. HP is in the process of open sourcing the OS, so anyone can take it up, but I suspect HP's desire would be to have one, or two, close partners in this endeavour rather than a slew of OEM's putting their own face on the OS and pushing product out the door. Google's entire business model with Android is the latter. This fact is what makes Google's acquisition of Motorola's mobile unit so strange, and potentially opens a door for webOS, or some other platform. Yes, Meg overstated things and Google is not going to close-source Android, but, protestations aside, Motorola is going to get preferential treatment from Google. As an OEM struggling to make money on Android phones (and reports are that while market share has increased only Samsung is really making money on Android hardware) that at least has to start making you think about diversifying your product lines.

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Sorry Charlie -- that is not something you can control. Once it is open source anyone, anywhere, can take it and put whatever face they want to on it. HP will not be able to have "one, or two, close partners" even if that is what they desire?

This is what I have been arguing since day one with the discussions of open sourcing webOS -- they DREAM of "fragmentation". Fragmentation says your OS is a success and people are trying to differentiate their implementation of the OS from someone else.

The only way you control fragmentation is to retain the rights to license your OS or by not licensing it and producing the hardware yourself. Once it is out there, you have control over its direction on main branch, but you have no control whatsoever with what others may do with it. You can't have the cake and eat it too.

HP tried the Apple model, and it failed miserable for them. They are now trying the Google model, and we will have to wait at least a year or two to see if they are successful or not with that approach.

BTW, one thing that really bugs me about Meg's statement about the relationship between Android and Motorola is the mere fact that they may be manufacturing webOS hardware in 2013 -- that would put them in exactly the same scenario that Google and Motorola are in now and her words will definitely come back to bit her.
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Old 02/22/2012, 12:07 PM   #30 (permalink)
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BTW, one thing that really bugs me about Meg's statement about the relationship between Android and Motorola is the mere fact that they may be manufacturing webOS hardware in 2013 -- that would put them in exactly the same scenario that Google and Motorola are in now and her words will definitely come back to bit her.
Thank you, that's my point exactly.

We all know that Microsoft is going to make ARM-based Windows 8 tablet OS. We all know that HP is keeping its PC division (which is the world's largest PC maker) and will manufacture said ARM based Windows 8 tablets --- and these tablets can probably dual boots to webos if HP gives them the necessary touchscreen/wifi/bluetooth drivers.

How do you convince HTC to make a webos tablet if HP (the world's largest PC maker) can dual boots it at any time? That's the same argument against Google buying Motorola.
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Old 02/22/2012, 02:21 PM   #31 (permalink)
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How do you convince HTC to make a webos tablet if HP (the world's largest PC maker) can dual boots it at any time? That's the same argument against Google buying Motorola.
Windows Tablets to Business customers, "GMoto" to same HTC customers...

Remembering: now, each time the HTC have less profit with Android. So, why don't change?


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Old 02/22/2012, 03:34 PM   #32 (permalink)
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Remembering: now, each time the HTC have less profit with Android. So, why don't change?
Because a percentage of something is better than all of nothing.

getting away from the cost of the OS - who is going to pour in the billions to develop the ecosystem that consumers expect?
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