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Meg : HP webOS will have huge advantages over iOS and Android.
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Old 02/05/2012, 03:12 PM   #81 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by gargoylejps View Post
Here's a couple links from this past December reporting what was said regarding new hardware:

Meg Whitman and Marc Andreessen on webOS: 'We will use webOS in new hardware... in tablets' | The Verge

Report: HP Plans 2013 WebOS Tablet While Killing TouchPad | News & Opinion | PCMag.com

I suppose there is room for interpretation in these. Still, I'd say the indications are that a new tablet is the most likely product and 2013 the likely release year. Of course, that is all dependent on what the market looks like as that date approaches. To paraphrase what the investing professionals always say, forward looking statements are always subject to revision.

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Yeah i'm not sure about those. They may do it in 2013 but i don't think it's certain just yet. Well the Verge is an actual interview by Josh Topolsky. So those quotes seem direct from the CEO's mouth. The PC magazine article is guy reporting on someone else's article and interview: Tech Crunch. So PC magazine was not a source. He's reporting no a another interview. But he seems to totally misquote the original Techcrunch article he references on that point. That linked article is here HP’s Whitman: We’ll Make WebOS-Powered Tablets In 2013 | TechCrunch In Techcrunch the relevant quote is this and it's in HP's clarification of this very point:
"UPDATE: HP wanted to clarify that Whitman said HP could make WebOS-powered tablets in 2013.



While we know that HP is ceasing development of WebOS in phones, it’s interesting that the company is continuing to bet on the OS in tablets.
In 2012, Whitman is planning for a Windows 8 tablet. “We’ll continue to invest in the existing tablet ecosystem” and in the near term “will bet heavily with Windows.”
But the PC magazine writer misquotes that and says "they'll definitely make one in 2013." Or at least he's only quoting the original statement in the article NOT the clarified HP statement. I mean HP made a specific effort to clarify and correct and change what the article said from "would make" to "could make." When the company is going out of it's way to back down expectations it holds a whole lot of weight. They hold much more weight then the authors assessment. And the "could make in 2013" line jibes with what they said in most other interviews on that date.

In the original Verge interview relevant quote is
"Will HP be creating any new webOS hardware? Meg: The answer to that is yes but what I can't tell you is whether that will be in 2012 or not. But we will use webOS in new hardware, but it's just going to take us a little longer to reorganize the team in a quite different direction than we've been taking it in the past."
There is no statement that they will "probably" make a tablet in 2013. Just one guy misquoting his Techcrunch source or failing to update his statement. I'm not saying they won't have something in 2013. They very well may. I'm saying people are stretching Meg's words from those interviews. Right now it's up in the air and but i haven't heard her say "probably in 2013" yet.
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Old 02/05/2012, 07:43 PM   #82 (permalink)
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a webOS tablet in 2013 sounds to me like:

"If we donīt get customers for webOS open source ( Samsung. Sony. HTC, LG, Asustek etc) we might make a webOS tablet in 2013"

"And if we certainly get those customers, we will see if they are interested in webOS open source just for smartphones. If they are, then we go with a tablet."

"If the customers are interested in both smartphones and tablets with webOS open source," I donīt think HP will make the competition to their customers.
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Old 02/05/2012, 10:28 PM   #83 (permalink)
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I thought she said one "device in 2012 and possibly two" and did not clarify further. I think this was a Bloomberg interview in Dec (zdnet reported on it) and don't know whether Topolsky interview, which is more recent, is new policy or just a restatement.

I do think those recent enthusiastic tweets from marinacci and others on the webOS team sound intriguing.

edit: whoa, that was my 3000th post.
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Old 02/06/2012, 12:09 PM   #84 (permalink)
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The lengths those intent on throwing cold water around to give themselves an ego boost, or something, is honestly quite funny. Derek should really start a new segment in the PalmCast that highlights the most humorous troll posting of the last week.

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Old 02/07/2012, 03:15 AM   #85 (permalink)
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The lengths those intent on throwing cold water around to give themselves an ego boost, or something, is honestly quite funny. Derek should really start a new segment in the PalmCast that highlights the most humorous troll posting of the last week.

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Then according to what you call trolling Derek would be starting a segment just to call himself a troll because in the podcast Derek discussed Meg's comments & threw his own cold water on them. I'll paraphrase:

"If you ask me i would NOT say that webos's middle road approach, that it's fully open but not fragmented but not close, is necessarily a big selling point to a select few of the nerdly types like me. The general customer base is not generally concerned about fragmentation. You pull someone off the street and start yelling at them about how fragmented android is ...they'll look at you weird because you're yelling at them about something they don't care about. Average person doesn't care how closed IOS is. It has 5 billion apps available to them. It can do exactly what they want it to do. It's a selling point to developers saying that it's not fragmented but to the end user... and manufacturers that have to build the product and less be honest that's the only way it's going to be successful is to have manufactures put webos on their products. It will be a fun niche product if nobody picks it up. So they need to better refine this pitch as to why someone would want WebOS."
Derek Kessler- Palmcast 153 - minute 21:56
PalmCast 153: Open source roadmap, Enyo, Ruby's out, apps apps apps - YouTube

What you want to call trolling and throwing cold water is in fact a realistic discussion of what Meg said. What Derek said and many in this thread have said is NOT "trolling." It's just an honest assessment of the current situation.
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Old 02/07/2012, 10:51 AM   #86 (permalink)
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Again, humorous and entirely predictable responses.

Disagreement is not trolling. Trolling is constantly patrolling the message boards and spewing out stuff that amounts to constantly repeating: You're stupid because you don't agree with me. You're and ***** because you still have hope for webOS. Give up already Android, iOS, whatever. HP is stupid, ignorant, evil.... you should be cool like me and bash them, not rooting for them and certainly not contributing constructively. webOS is hopeless and lost! Just give up already! (yes I'm being intentionally over-the-top and sarcastic here)

Now, what Derek did in the PalmCast was a tough critique, but a fair critique. Even more, he attempted to be constructive by having a discussion about what features they would promote webOS right now (admittedly difficult without new hardware and not knowing exactly what openwebOS will look like). I wouldn't say that fits within the parameters of the above definition.

Anyway, watching the contortions to put a negative spin on something which was unquestionably positive, albeit with qualifiers which everyone acknowledged, has been fun. However, this thread largely degenerated long ago and, honestly, the assertions really weren't worth the time it took to craft this reply. So, with that, I bid you adieu.

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Old 02/07/2012, 02:08 PM   #87 (permalink)
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Again, humorous and entirely predictable responses.

Disagreement is not trolling. Trolling is constantly patrolling the message boards and spewing out stuff that amounts to constantly repeating: You're stupid because you don't agree with me. You're and ***** because you still have hope for webOS. Give up already Android, iOS, whatever. HP is stupid, ignorant, evil.... you should be cool like me and bash them, not rooting for them and certainly not contributing constructively. webOS is hopeless and lost! Just give up already! (yes I'm being intentionally over-the-top and sarcastic here)

Now, what Derek did in the PalmCast was a tough critique, but a fair critique. Even more, he attempted to be constructive by having a discussion about what features they would promote webOS right now (admittedly difficult without new hardware and not knowing exactly what openwebOS will look like). I wouldn't say that fits within the parameters of the above definition.

Anyway, watching the contortions to put a negative spin on something which was unquestionably positive, albeit with qualifiers which everyone acknowledged, has been fun. However, this thread largely degenerated long ago and, honestly, the assertions really weren't worth the time it took to craft this reply. So, with that, I bid you adieu.

Gargoyle
nobody has said any of that stuff except you. You're the very person that attempted to call people out for throwing cold water and called them trolls. Well Derek did EXACTLY what you described "throwing cold water". Now you want to redefine your words because your own words have come back to bite you. The thread was fine. There is no need for name calling of people like you did. If it degenerated it's because of comments like yours. Sorry for your dose of reality.
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Old 02/08/2012, 12:05 AM   #88 (permalink)
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Guys calm down, Lets retake the subject of this forum in peace. Would you please? Thanks.
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Old 02/08/2012, 07:58 AM   #89 (permalink)
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Its almost as if some on this forum fear WebOS will sucessed. Just what do they fear?

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Old 02/08/2012, 01:00 PM   #90 (permalink)
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Its almost as if some on this forum fear WebOS will sucessed. Just what do they fear?

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I don't think so. In worst case some of members are indifferent.

Simply, majority of webOS fans are inclined to give great meaning to meaningless stuff, like this one related to Meg's mentioning of webOS. I believe if HP makes some progress in right direction with webOS, like improving boot times, adding missing APIs or radically improving webOS performance and feature set, there would be no " trolling" posts.
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Old 02/08/2012, 01:49 PM   #91 (permalink)
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I don't think fragmentation is hurting Android much considering their dominant market share. Additionally doesn't Android 4 basically end this by requiring all phones to have that holo interface? The other thing is i've never heard the term fragmentation come out of the lips of a nontech oriented person. Like my mom bought an android phone and she has no clue what fragmentation is. I think it's not that big of a deal big picturewise.
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Even if we accept that fragmentation exists, the sales evidence suggests that nobody (at the consumer level) cares. Moreover, anyone expecting an (middle to high end) OEM to put out a webOS device without trying to skin it or make the UI unique to them is frankly dreaming.

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I would respectfully (partially) disagree. Android should be cleaning Apple's clock right now... and they aren't. (More form factors, more retail outlets, arguably better hardware in some cases, better prices) For a while they were outselling them, and then the numbers shifted back in Apple's favor.

I see hundreds of users choose devices every year and even with RIM hemorrhaging, the split has been about 50/50 between Apple and Android. But while I've seen some of those new Android purchasers trade their device back in for an iPhone, it never happens the other way.

It's the same reason why someone will travel across the country or around the world and still eat at the same chain restaurant that they eat at when at home. They want a predictable, consistent experience. That is not the case across the Android world. The phone my buddy gets from AT&T may be laid out differently in UI aspects from the one I'll buy from Verizon.

Just because of lead time in the market and size of market, Apple is defining the user interface that is familiar to most people. I don't think it is necessarily the best one, but it is the most familiar one. Android cannot match that, and really needs to have a consistent look and feel across all product to move to the next level. I'm sure that Duarte and company are working on making that happen.

The questions about webOS are for a different post. (Meg: Talk is cheap)
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Old 02/08/2012, 01:52 PM   #92 (permalink)
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Guys calm down, Lets retake the subject of this forum in peace. Would you please? Thanks.
Can't we all just get along?
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Old 02/09/2012, 02:35 PM   #93 (permalink)
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Can't we all just get along?
Yeah C-Note. Thanks.
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Old 02/10/2012, 05:54 PM   #94 (permalink)
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I would respectfully (partially) disagree. Android should be cleaning Apple's clock right now... and they aren't. (More form factors, more retail outlets, arguably better hardware in some cases, better prices) For a while they were outselling them, and then the numbers shifted back in Apple's favor.

I see hundreds of users choose devices every year and even with RIM hemorrhaging, the split has been about 50/50 between Apple and Android. But while I've seen some of those new Android purchasers trade their device back in for an iPhone, it never happens the other way.

It's the same reason why someone will travel across the country or around the world and still eat at the same chain restaurant that they eat at when at home. They want a predictable, consistent experience. That is not the case across the Android world. The phone my buddy gets from AT&T may be laid out differently in UI aspects from the one I'll buy from Verizon.

Just because of lead time in the market and size of market, Apple is defining the user interface that is familiar to most people. I don't think it is necessarily the best one, but it is the most familiar one. Android cannot match that, and really needs to have a consistent look and feel across all product to move to the next level. I'm sure that Duarte and company are working on making that happen.

The questions about webOS are for a different post. (Meg: Talk is cheap)

I don't think that's the main reason or reasons why iphone users stay with the iphone or switch back. Nor do i think Android "should" be cleaning apple's clock. First Android does very well. It may be the most used mobile OS in the world. But I actually prefer the IOS over Android. Android has strengths i'd like adopted but that's all OSs. But plenty of people actually prefer IOS.

You pointed to a few reasons why Android should be cleaning Apple's clock that i don't think represent the thinking of most consumers: "More form factors, more retail outlets, arguably better hardware in some cases, better prices." The hottest formfactor is slab and so if you had an iphone you're probably good with a slab. Hardware is not unimportant but the iphone has often, especially in the last two years, not had the most advanced hardware. There have been camera's with more megapixels and bigger processors, LTE. But apple doesn't spend much time on highlighting specs. They don't talk about how much ram or the clock speeds. Even when they upped the camera they took great pains to change the discussion from a numeric measure like megapixels to one that consumers can't easily wage a spec war with: "we have a better sensor."

I"m not saying specs are unimportant. Just that the typical mom and pop, grandma, grandpa, teen girl, desperate housewife, guy at the office that just get's a phone, isn't really focusing on clock speed details. I didn't know the speed of a Pre minus until i was unsatisfied with performance and learned you could overclock with new kernals. But it never entered my mind before i bought the phone.

You mentioned better price and i think price is a hurdle but price drove me to a Pre. Lack of satisfaction drove me away from it and made me willing to pay a higher cost for a phone and a higher $10 cost for monthly service. One other thing is iPhones have been quite cheap. A $99 iphone is very affordable for many people, and at $199 it's pretty comparable to similar Android phones. Another thing is when a person is faced with enduring two years stuck with a phone contract (because were talking average users not tech people that need the latest phone every year) the difference between $199 iphone or a $179 Android phone may not be that large. I can see them saying, $20 more for a phone i want more is ok to pay. But again for $99 in some case you get more.

But what i also disagree with is the notion that the reason people go to android then go back to iphone is merely because they "want a predictable consistent experience." Predictability and consistency are fine but nothing without quality. McDonalds is consistent and predictable but I don't eat at McDonalds because i find their burgers consistently and predictably bad. I don't drink Pepsi because it's consistently and predictably not a taste i prefer over Coke. It's not bad but I know what i'm getting and it's not the quality i want in a drink. I'd rather have a Coke.

I know this is hard for WebOS fans to hear but IOS has enormously high customer satisfaction rates, over 90% i think, because people think it's a very good user experience. They don't hate IOS. They like it. Like all systems they whine and complain about stuff. But they generally like IOS. They think it's quality. The tagline saying associated with it works "It just works" for a reason. Where as other operating systems, in this case Android, may have things they don't like what IOS presents, to those users, is what they find to be "quality." In many cases it's a matter of tastes. Just like form factor or my preference for Coke over Pepsi. But sometimes the other guy just doesn't get the job done, like my hate of McDonalds hamburgers (Prefer Fat Burger). I'm of the opinion that things like icloud or a huge app catalog, or 64 GBs or internal storage or working sync or just the look and sheen of menus all lend to the positive user experience. It all makes people think that that is quality. If the experience was what they wanted on Android; if it was what they deem quality. They would not be care about different user interfaces.

And i'll give an example, my brother got the iphone 4s over xmas and my mom uses an android horizontal slider the Transform (or Transformer?). She didn't know what fragmentation was when she bought her transform and doesn't care. she doesn't know what android 4.0 is and doesn't really care. But she was playing with the Siri and watched him verbally sent her a text message, and answer him by name, and how in one click my brother took control of my dad's airplay attached stereo in the basement and started streaming a love song for here off his phone (she loved that). He showed her a Delta app (also available on her android phone) that meant she didn't' have to print tickets. She love that the button presses were instant and loved face time. And she said, "That's my next phone." But she didn't say I want that phone cause it's consistent and predictable. She'd never had an iphone. She's barely seen other android phones. She wasn't out shopping for new phones. She didn't use another android phone and get confused. Not like she or anyone else couldn't and wouldn't merely adjust to a new layout of OS components. But she chose because she liked in IOS what she saw. She associated all those combined things of looks, features, smoothness, screen, app selections etc as quality. What constitutes quality is gonna be subjective, obviously. But IOS users tend to have a common notion that what they are getting is the right kind of quality to make them buy, stay, or return. It's their opinion, subjective as it may be, of quality more then mere consistency or predictability. And it's one of the many reasons fragmentation is unknown and not important to the non-techy consumer.
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Old 02/16/2012, 09:33 AM   #95 (permalink)
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More wisdom from Meg: "I think that Android may end up as a closed system because of [Google's] relationship with Motorola."

Is there a facepalm smiley here? I mean, I get what she's doing, trying to pump up webOS while scaring handset manufacturers into believing life as they know it is changing drastically soon, but the only people who are going to take that notion and run with it are the webOS faithful and sites wanting a nice, link-bait headline (I'm looking at you, PCMag.com).
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Old 02/16/2012, 10:38 AM   #96 (permalink)
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Made a thread to cheer on those making it happen right now for webOS:

http://forums.webosnation.com/webos-...s-whos-me.html
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