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Meg : HP webOS will have huge advantages over iOS and Android.
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Old 02/02/2012, 05:00 PM   #41 (permalink)
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Spyke,

The difference is that iOS is just plain not capable of supporting those devices anymore, therefore, they are on the last possible version for them.

The whole -point- of the thing is that developers are going to be developing for Android 1.3 and 2.1, because they are the most common system out there, you can't target 4.0 and have a lot of customers. So, you're screwing customers on the apps, and developers on the code side.
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Old 02/02/2012, 05:26 PM   #42 (permalink)
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Gullible fools. Meg's just a Leo with a dress.

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Old 02/02/2012, 05:32 PM   #43 (permalink)
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Then you know something the rest of us about wins 8 because as written, the HCR document says that if you put it on an ARM tablet you can't disable the secure boot-loader (You being an OEM rather than some hobbyist doing it at home).
Rather than speculatiing you could simply fire up your favorite search engine and get the information that is available to all of us.

If you search for a string like "windows 8 secure boot loader dual boot" you'll get lots of good information discussing the issue.

Here's a typical article with some useful information about the issue.

Microsoft addresses Windows 8 secure boot issue | Microsoft - CNET News

A key quote from the article:
Quote:
In his blog, [Microsoft's] Mangefeste countered such a position by saying that PC makers will have the option of giving customers the ability to disable secure boot and manage the security certificates if they wish to run other systems or potentially change the hardware.
The article makes it clear that we won't know how much influence, if any, Microsoft will place on the system manufacturers. But there is no technical reason to believe that secure boot does anything more than it was designed to do: provide a boot environment that is secure.

At this point, threats that Microsoft will use it to make it impossible to boot anything else, ever, are simply scaremongering. It's the sort of "journalism" you expect to find in those rags you buy at the supermarket checkout. :-)

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Old 02/02/2012, 05:49 PM   #44 (permalink)
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Talk is cheap and is often completely divorced from reality (look at how delusional the guys at RIM are) - I'd believe this more, if HP were turning out any sort of hardware. If Whitman thinks this is such a red-hot opportunity, she could demonstrate that to the world by turning out a device - that HP does not says far more to the world that some statements about how strong the OS is.
Good point

All battle plans seem sound until they make first contact with the enemy (Andoris/IOS).

Some of our fallen comrades:
Symbian
Webos

In the M*A*S*H unit:
RIM

Trapped, surrounded, taking on flack and waiting for air support:
Windows Mobile 7
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Old 02/02/2012, 09:44 PM   #45 (permalink)
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Meg didn't say anything I didn't expect her to say as CEO.
What else is she gonna say or do? Same thing ruby did when covering.

Hopefully it wil give Webos time and she will see over time if their is any positive from it. But she goes of to concentrate on her 11 billion dollar purchase... Autonomy

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Originally Posted by CGK View Post
Talk is cheap and is often completely divorced from reality (look at how delusional the guys at RIM are) - I'd believe this more, if HP were turning out any sort of hardware. If Whitman thinks this is such a red-hot opportunity, she could demonstrate that to the world by turning out a device - that HP does not says far more to the world that some statements about how strong the OS is.
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Old 02/02/2012, 10:07 PM   #46 (permalink)
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I would like to quote this words she said:

"So we're going to support it in a very big way and I'm excited about it. You can give us a grade in about a year, and I think the proof will be in the pudding in about two or three."

It is important HP is truly going to support webOS all the way and it also might mean resources included.

She is projecting webOS open source results between one to three years.
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Old 02/02/2012, 11:30 PM   #47 (permalink)
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Gullible fools. Meg's just a Leo with a dress.
Amen. i have little faith in her.
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I would like to quote this words she said:

"So we're going to support it in a very big way and I'm excited about it. You can give us a grade in about a year, and I think the proof will be in the pudding in about two or three."

It is important HP is truly going to support webOS all the way and it also might mean resources included.

She is projecting webOS open source results between one to three years.
unfortunately that is amazingly imprecise. Nobody knows what support means and how big they consider "a big way." Is it one million dollars or one billion. Does it mean 10 guys doing tech support or 50 or 5000. Does it merely mean moral support but very little financial risk on HP's part. They are still utterly uncommitted to making any hardware for anything webos. "it might mean resources." Yes. We however have no clue if it does and what those resources are. Maybe it's one guy. Maybe it's no money. Maybe it's a ton. It's just vague and so i'm not gonna get all excited.

like the person above said, "what else is she gonna say?" It's like asking Eli Manning if he thinks he can beat Brady in the superbowl. There's generally only one answer that question unless you're a complete fool and it's not "No."

I'd have been much more impressed if she had detailed all the ways they were gonna fix the software. Like if she had said, "it lags too much. Where gonna make it respond instantly to every finger press. The music player is lackluster we're gonna make it more feature filled then and Ipod touch. I'm talking gapless playback, better playlisting, improved sorting, customization, the works. The camera app has few features. We are going to make it as robust feature wise as a top end compact canon point and shoot. I'm talking iso control, burst mode, timers, changeable resolutions, etc. We are building a desktop sync client to rival itunes. We are building a store to deliver all kinds of digital content to devices including tv, movies, music, audiobooks, ebooks. We are integrating voice commands throughout. We are partnering with netflix, starbucks, tv networks, etc to bring apps to their platform or get access to the info so that third parties can build suitable clients for those platforms. We are going make it so it can play many more forms and formats of media like ogg, flac, xvid, mkv, etc so your are not limited in your choice of formats. We are developing our own top notch navigation program that puts Garmin and Google Maps to shame. Email will be much improved. We are building a virtual keyboard interface so we can put this on slab phones. Oh and it will in the September release." That would impress me a bit. The person running WebOS should be saying that stuff.
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Old 02/03/2012, 04:38 AM   #48 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by sinsin07 View Post
Good point

All battle plans seem sound until they make first contact with the enemy (Andoris/IOS).

Some of our fallen comrades:
Symbian
Webos

In the M*A*S*H unit:
RIM

Trapped, surrounded, taking on flack and waiting for air support:
Windows Mobile 7
Just a bit of an off-topic rant here - I am frankly amazed at Blackberry's new advertising campaign. If you haven't seen it, it features various people telling us how they use their blackberries for their businesses and then a deep voice says:

"Introducing the Blackberry Bold"

Introducing??? Introducing? How can you 'introduce' a product line that was first launched in 2008!
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Old 02/03/2012, 08:09 AM   #49 (permalink)
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Just a bit of an off-topic rant here - I am frankly amazed at Blackberry's new advertising campaign. If you haven't seen it, it features various people telling us how they use their blackberries for their businesses and then a deep voice says:

"Introducing the Blackberry Bold"

Introducing??? Introducing? How can you 'introduce' a product line that was first launched in 2008!
The thing that drove me nuts is when Blackberry went touchscreen. The commercials made it sound like touchscreen was cutting edge eventhough Palm had touchscreen for years. Yet . . Back to the topic.

I have been an HP crittic since Leo's murder of WebOS. Yet, i feel good (as best you can considering WebOS as it stands today) with what Meg said about HP's plan for the next couple years. Personally, I'd rather see a WebOS phone veruses another pad, we'll see.


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Old 02/03/2012, 08:43 AM   #50 (permalink)
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I don't forget any of that, HP is financial sound and could raise the finance if wished to in a variety of ways - so why don't they?

The only logical answer is that they don't think the reward is equal to the risk.

So why is anyone else going to jump in?
Here is my take. HP can afford to feed 400 people but cannot have the money to pursue another hardware. I bet if they stay course i.e. keep the 400 engineers and poach some superstar engineers from other companies in the next 12 months they can be back in the game in 2013. It gives them freedom to focus on software. I bet they will beat iOS and Android together on speed and framework.
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Old 02/03/2012, 09:44 AM   #51 (permalink)
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It is interesting to watch all of us scramble and hyperventilate on every scrap of news. We get the normal cast of clowns who get some ego boost out of telling everybody else they're stupid and should give up hoping for something good from webOS. Eh, whatever floats your boat. Then there are the others trying to read some deep strategic meaning into every off-the-cuff remark.

Really, what started this whole discussion were a couple questions from a larger interview to which Meg gave a couple short, boilerplate answers. These aren't major statements of HP's strategy, just statements that webOS has had a rocky road the last couple years (nice to acknowledge that leadership has been a big part of the problem) and that she sees some distinct advantages in webOS over competitors. It's nothing more and nothing less. I think the real takeaways from this statement and HP's actions of late are that they are not orphaning the operating system and have significant plans centered on it. Unfortunately, the real world is not like fantasy football, or Dungeons & Dragons, putting together a plan that your going to bet millions of dollars of other peoples' money on (not to mention the livelihood of dozens of employees) takes time. It also takes time to work through the process of open sourcing webOS, get designs made for new hardware, develop any apps HP might want available when the new hardware launches, design an ad campaign, organize the logistics to actually get hardware made, etc., etc., etc. For better, or worse, webOS isn't going to lose any significant mindshare sitting out the next cycle and will be better off coming out with a flagship device that is well done with a real niche identified for it and a plan to dominate that niche. However, it takes time to put all that together and we're probably not going to hear much until HP is ready to roll its new product line out. So, in the meantime we're reading tea leaves and trying to glean a bit of hope out of every statement.

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Old 02/03/2012, 10:38 AM   #52 (permalink)
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Like Meg and I love to read positive talk on webOS, but I'm not really seeing much of a plan yet.

And by "plan", I mean a strategy to do something different from what they did before. We know just releasing the hardware along with an ad blitz to indifferent retailers and carriers is a recipe for guaranteed failure. Sure the software is "open source", but right now for the consumer, that's meaningless. I don't see a plan for an ecosystem. or new Hardware.

Those are things that sell to consumers, and that they can invest in. Android started as an open source system, but it only got traction from carrier support, awesome native apps like free Google Nav, and really super advanced hardware (which few were doing at the time). The operating system was a VERY SMALL part of what made them stand out. So what's Meg's plan for us to stand out? If webOS itself is the main component of differentiation, I don't see anything changing. Microsoft has a critically acclaimed OS (like us!), hero company (Nokia) along with current hardware from the two biggest Android manufacturers (Samsung and HTC), support from AT&T, Microsoft retail stores, an amazing ecosystem (Zune Pass really is rad), 60,000 apps, and much better name recognition.....and they're struggling. This is with Microsoft paying off Nokia with huge "support" payments, investing hundreds of millions more in ads, and now paying carrier reps incentives to sell Windows Phones. Is HP prepared to spend what it takes with no return on investment anytime soon? I'm not sure they are. In fact, I seriously doubt they are.
Lets face it. Microsoft mobile is still not there yet.No matter how many millions they pour in. Its different, because it has tiles.

Lets talk some technical stuff here. The UI is not getting into the brain of many. Hence the poor sales. The average Joe is used to a "Home" screen with multiple screens/pages/Launchers .... which is the way iOS/Android/ webOS/BB/Meamo..... works.
What Microsoft doing is totally different than everyone out there in terms of their Home screen UI. For many that is the main reason not to pick the windows phone.

As per HP's plan of not including hardware, its simple, no money. Besides the software needs to evolve. The most important thing webOS needs is performance, they got to be on par with other OSes out there on speed, responsiveness.
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Old 02/03/2012, 11:10 AM   #53 (permalink)
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they have desktop as an app. i'm not a fan of the tiles but with the desktop app i'd be good to go.

Windows 8 Tablet Developer Preview - YouTube

i think meg is making a big mistake if she didnt include/underestimates microsoft. they have a lot of potential that if they can bring it together, i think their tablet will be a hit. for me that would be my alternative to ios because besides tablet and phone, i use windows at home and work and that will attract a ton of people... still more windows users than the rest.

also, they have to get rid of monkey boy like hp got rid of leo and ruby.

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Lets face it. Microsoft mobile is still not there yet.No matter how many millions they pour in. Its different, because it has tiles.

Lets talk some technical stuff here. The UI is not getting into the brain of many. Hence the poor sales. The average Joe is used to a "Home" screen with multiple screens/pages/Launchers .... which is the way iOS/Android/ webOS/BB/Meamo..... works.
What Microsoft doing is totally different than everyone out there in terms of their Home screen UI. For many that is the main reason not to pick the windows phone.

As per HP's plan of not including hardware, its simple, no money. Besides the software needs to evolve. The most important thing webOS needs is performance, they got to be on par with other OSes out there on speed, responsiveness.
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Old 02/03/2012, 11:22 AM   #54 (permalink)
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Meg didn't say anything I didn't expect her to say as CEO.
What else is she gonna say or do? Same thing ruby did when covering.

Hopefully it wil give Webos time and she will see over time if their is any positive from it. But she goes of to concentrate on her 11 billion dollar purchase... Autonomy
I guess putting a schedule shows more commitment. September is when we see the new version.
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Old 02/03/2012, 11:47 AM   #55 (permalink)
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If we accept the argument that HP can't afford to make hardware, then how can they afford the really expensive stuff - the ecosystem and cloud aspects and marketing that is needed and will cost many billions? The OS is the cheap bit.

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Old 02/03/2012, 12:30 PM   #56 (permalink)
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i think putting money into making a desktop or laptop and knowing they will sell x amount or all of them and getting your money back on it is something they have figured out... and pc division are probably self supportive that any development spending is from their money. they just dont make much profit on them.

but putting new money into development...and a massive amount at that... and not sure if you will break even... that's different. they dont have the money to spend on that... it's all spent from autonomy and they still have to spend on that.

not like apple... apple can make more ios devices than hp makes pcs... and apples profit margin per unit is huge compared to hp/device. hearing that last week, that's probably telling meg that she better get hp on their new software direction and fast cause the money is not in pcs...

tell the webos fans that webos is great and they are behing the open source initiative and hope OTHERS make something out of it... and they concentrate on autonomy.

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I don't even accept that. They're making an ultrabook enclosed in glass as if it were an iPhone!
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Old 02/03/2012, 12:35 PM   #57 (permalink)
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Meg... need a device... please
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Old 02/03/2012, 01:31 PM   #58 (permalink)
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If we accept the argument that HP can't afford to make hardware, then how can they afford the really expensive stuff - the ecosystem and cloud aspects and marketing that is needed and will cost many billions? The OS is the cheap bit.

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The OS is not cheap agree. However the cloud and the ecosystem are what makes the opensource more attractive. They might make few thousand dollars (may be a thousand) on Apps :-). The software is what gets them going with developers. It is what they can afford at this point. Clearly they might have some strategy on how to milk money on opensource. Medical field can use it along with the toasters

HP needs to get rid of a body part, they would cut a hand rather than the head. Why ? because if they cut the head , well um...
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Old 02/03/2012, 01:36 PM   #59 (permalink)
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Like Meg and I love to read positive talk on webOS, but I'm not really seeing much of a plan yet.

And by "plan", I mean a strategy to do something different from what they did before. We know just releasing the hardware along with an ad blitz to indifferent retailers and carriers is a recipe for guaranteed failure. Sure the software is "open source", but right now for the consumer, that's meaningless. I don't see a plan for an ecosystem. or new Hardware.

Those are things that sell to consumers, and that they can invest in. Android started as an open source system, but it only got traction from carrier support, awesome native apps like free Google Nav, and really super advanced hardware (which few were doing at the time). The operating system was a VERY SMALL part of what made them stand out. So what's Meg's plan for us to stand out? If webOS itself is the main component of differentiation, I don't see anything changing. Microsoft has a critically acclaimed OS (like us!), hero company (Nokia) along with current hardware from the two biggest Android manufacturers (Samsung and HTC), support from AT&T, Microsoft retail stores, an amazing ecosystem (Zune Pass really is rad), 60,000 apps, and much better name recognition.....and they're struggling. This is with Microsoft paying off Nokia with huge "support" payments, investing hundreds of millions more in ads, and now paying carrier reps incentives to sell Windows Phones. Is HP prepared to spend what it takes with no return on investment anytime soon? I'm not sure they are. In fact, I seriously doubt they are.
This is a sound analysis. Talk is cheap and HP didn't make an smart effort even when they were going 'all out'.

Feels like HP is trying to get traction on the cheap, no tablets (maybe), no phones, no real commitment to the platform other than to 'open source' it and allow someone else to try to build the brand.

The OS does have flaws, but that's not the fatal problem as all OS'es do. But with no hardware, no financial backing, and no definite path to fix its problems, there is little reason for it to be more than a hobbyist platform.

I hope I'm wrong, but I doubt it.

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Old 02/03/2012, 02:19 PM   #60 (permalink)
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they have desktop as an app. i'm not a fan of the tiles but with the desktop app i'd be good to go.

Windows 8 Tablet Developer Preview - YouTube

i think meg is making a big mistake if she didnt include/underestimates microsoft. they have a lot of potential that if they can bring it together, i think their tablet will be a hit. for me that would be my alternative to ios because besides tablet and phone, i use windows at home and work and that will attract a ton of people... still more windows users than the rest.

also, they have to get rid of monkey boy like hp got rid of leo and ruby.
True, Desktop as an App is a must. Not having a "Desktop" would turn off many.

The main issue with Microsoft is with the core OS. They want to have Win 8 with Metro layer on a tablet. That won't work. IMO. Apart from webOS, both iOS and Android are designed for mobile with no heavy lifting of a desktop OS, which supports everything from taking backups to editing videos. In addition getting decent battery life could be a problem for Microsoft. Lets face it, Windows mobile is not yet supporting dual core processors while webOS, iOS,Android even BB do that. Microsoft can beat them , but not sure they have the time on their side. By the time they come to market everyone is on iOS or Android.
I would love to have a TRUE Win8 PC\tablet with 8 hour battery life. Me thinks that is another two plus years from now.
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