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Meg : HP webOS will have huge advantages over iOS and Android.
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Old 02/02/2012, 10:33 AM   #21 (permalink)
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HP can produce a tablet with Windows 8 on it, get the money from Microsoft/Intel for it, yet offer us the choice to run webOS on it.
By offer the choice, do you mean sell a tablet that simply contains WebOS? Because after my last post, I had a look and as far as I can tell it will not be possible to make a dual-boot Win8 tablet because of both technical and licensing restrictions.
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Old 02/02/2012, 10:43 AM   #22 (permalink)
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By offer the choice, do you mean sell a tablet that simply contains WebOS? Because after my last post, I had a look and as far as I can tell it will not be possible to make a dual-boot Win8 tablet because of both technical and licensing restrictions.
Dude, we are dual booting Android on a webOS tablet. I dual boot Windows 7 and Linux on my home computer. I don't believe there is any evidence of licensing restrictions here. I mean simply getting rid of the barriers that are usually present with porting another OS to the hardware, ie using parts that are compatible with both webOS and Windows 8 and making drivers available.
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Old 02/02/2012, 10:45 AM   #23 (permalink)
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any advantage does not matter if the average Joe doesn't know what the heck webOS is..

its great to hear them sounding optimistic
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Old 02/02/2012, 11:10 AM   #24 (permalink)
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Dude, we are dual booting Android on a webOS tablet. I dual boot Windows 7 and Linux on my home computer. I don't believe there is any evidence of licensing restrictions here. I mean simply getting rid of the barriers that are usually present with porting another OS to the hardware, ie using parts that are compatible with both webOS and Windows 8 and making drivers available.
You've lost me - that's a hobbyist thing - I thought we were talking about HP releasing a dual-booting tablet?

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I don't believe there is any evidence of licensing restrictions here.
Then you know something the rest of us about wins 8 because as written, the HCR document says that if you put it on an ARM tablet you can't disable the secure boot-loader (You being an OEM rather than some hobbyist doing it at home).
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Old 02/02/2012, 11:14 AM   #25 (permalink)
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By offer the choice, do you mean sell a tablet that simply contains WebOS? Because after my last post, I had a look and as far as I can tell it will not be possible to make a dual-boot Win8 tablet because of both technical and licensing restrictions.
webOS will be in its incubation period at this time so not even a thought there. Such dual boot option will have to be done by the community as usual.
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Old 02/02/2012, 11:14 AM   #26 (permalink)
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I don't think fragmentation is hurting Android much considering their dominant market share. Additionally doesn't Android 4 basically end this by requiring all phones to have that holo interface? The other thing is i've never heard the term fragmentation come out of the lips of a nontech oriented person. Like my mom bought an android phone and she has no clue what fragmentation is. I think it's not that big of a deal big picturewise.
Yeah that is what I was thinking about it. Most users wants a OS that works , don´t care the version and want a great hardware, and that´s it.

However, at this time Android devices worldwide will have all of them the update version 4.0 until March 2012. I think.
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Old 02/02/2012, 11:17 AM   #27 (permalink)
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webOS will be in its incubation period at this time so not even a thought there. Such dual boot option will have to be done by the community as usual.
I should be clear - I don't mean technical in terms of hardware spec but in terms of security and the fact that the OEM has to provide a secured bootloader - that doesn't prevent hobbyist trying to crack it but that the OEM is prevented from launching a dual-booting tablet of the sort some people want.
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Old 02/02/2012, 11:38 AM   #28 (permalink)
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It sounds to me like HP could be serious about the future of webOS. Meg said they won't be making any new hardware until 2013, because they're gonna be busy open-sourcing it. Obviously the community will have to help out (same as how Android has Cyanogenmod), but I believe we'll see some decent hardware from HP in 2013...I know I'd buy a Touchpad 2.
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Old 02/02/2012, 11:44 AM   #29 (permalink)
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She's committed to webOS, she has a plan, and she has a timeframe.
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Old 02/02/2012, 12:42 PM   #30 (permalink)
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what's the sales implication? none.
Wrong! This implies in high resales, for repeated disappointments and hope that the next device gonna be better ! Hehehehe


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Old 02/02/2012, 12:51 PM   #31 (permalink)
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You've lost me - that's a hobbyist thing - I thought we were talking about HP releasing a dual-booting tablet?



Then you know something the rest of us about wins 8 because as written, the HCR document says that if you put it on an ARM tablet you can't disable the secure boot-loader (You being an OEM rather than some hobbyist doing it at home).
No I wasn't talking about HP releasing a dual boot tablet. I apologize for the confusion.

I can understand Microsoft putting this restriction in to protect their investment. However, it seems like on every device that has a similar feature to this, folks have figured out ways around it. Didn't Windows Vista/7 have something like this at the beginning? I can't remember...
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Old 02/02/2012, 01:08 PM   #32 (permalink)
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No I wasn't talking about HP releasing a dual boot tablet. I apologize for the confusion.

I can understand Microsoft putting this restriction in to protect their investment. However, it seems like on every device that has a similar feature to this, folks have figured out ways around it. Didn't Windows Vista/7 have something like this at the beginning? I can't remember...
No - and it doesn't appear windows 8 will have it on the desktop - only on tablets.
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Old 02/02/2012, 01:09 PM   #33 (permalink)
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Android Fragmentation is not so bad , at this time: I found this interesting article:

Localytics: Android fragmentation overstated

The fragmentation of the Android platform is not as bad as many think, according to a survey from Localytics, which noted that “whether it’s OS version, screen size or screen resolution, the Android devices using apps with Localytics as their analytics solution have remarkably similar specifications.”

The company said that 73 percent of Android smartphone use came from devices running Android 2.3 (Gingerbread) – contrasting with the 55.9 percent that Google found from Android Market visits. An additional 23 percent of visits were from Android 2.2 (Froyo) devices, contrasting with 30 percent using Google’s analysis.

Either way, by addressing these two OS builds, developers can target upwards of 85 percent of all Android users.

Localytics also said that 41 percent of smartphone sessions came from devices with 4.3-inch screens, being “by far the most popular size.” It found that 4-inch displays accounted for 22 percent of sessions; 3.2-inch screens made up 11 percent, and 3.7-inch screens contributed 9 percent.

There was less variation in terms of resolutions. The most popular handset screen size – 800 x 480 pixels – contributed 62 percent of the study’s sessions, followed by 480 x 320 pixels (14 percent).

While this presents more options than Apple’s iOS, Localytics said that “with five options accounting for more than 90 percent of all Android app usage, the fragmentation is not particularly daunting.”

Moving onto tablets, the company said that “screen resolution and size are actually even less fragmented than handsets.” It found that 74 percent of Android use takes place on 7-inch devices with 1024 x 600 resolution, and 22 percent comes from 10.1-inch devices with 1280 x 800 resolutions – so taking the two into account, developers can reach “nearly all of the Android tablet market.”

OS distribution is similarly stable, with 71 percent of Android tablets running Android 2.3 Gingerbread. “Most” of the rest run on a version of Android 3 (Honeycomb), the version targeting tablets, which is used by 21 percent of these devices.

Source:Localytics: Android fragmentation overstated, Articles | Mobile Business Briefing
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Old 02/02/2012, 03:18 PM   #34 (permalink)
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Like Meg and I love to read positive talk on webOS, but I'm not really seeing much of a plan yet.

And by "plan", I mean a strategy to do something different from what they did before. We know just releasing the hardware along with an ad blitz to indifferent retailers and carriers is a recipe for guaranteed failure. Sure the software is "open source", but right now for the consumer, that's meaningless. I don't see a plan for an ecosystem. or new Hardware.

Those are things that sell to consumers, and that they can invest in. Android started as an open source system, but it only got traction from carrier support, awesome native apps like free Google Nav, and really super advanced hardware (which few were doing at the time). The operating system was a VERY SMALL part of what made them stand out. So what's Meg's plan for us to stand out? If webOS itself is the main component of differentiation, I don't see anything changing. Microsoft has a critically acclaimed OS (like us!), hero company (Nokia) along with current hardware from the two biggest Android manufacturers (Samsung and HTC), support from AT&T, Microsoft retail stores, an amazing ecosystem (Zune Pass really is rad), 60,000 apps, and much better name recognition.....and they're struggling. This is with Microsoft paying off Nokia with huge "support" payments, investing hundreds of millions more in ads, and now paying carrier reps incentives to sell Windows Phones. Is HP prepared to spend what it takes with no return on investment anytime soon? I'm not sure they are. In fact, I seriously doubt they are.
We'll have to be patient for HP's "plan". That will likely be evident when they announce their next webOS products and/or partners. That apparently won't be happening until 2013 as they're engaged in the process of open sourcing the OS. They will need to identify something as a key feature to promote to consumers and build a competitive advantage around. This may be a new service, or software application, or something else; whatever it is, they will likely hold it close to the vest until they're ready to announce it and deliver.

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Old 02/02/2012, 03:36 PM   #35 (permalink)
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"IF", not... exists! Look; for example so many non-ARM devices you can find that cannot install many softwares for ARM cpu...
This may be true but i'd bet the huge majority of cellphone customers in the entire world have no clue what that means and would never use that as part of their buying decision.

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OK it exists - what's the sales implication? none.
this is my thinking. Android phones sell well right now and people are hollering about fragmentation. It's clearly not something bothering most consumers, plus my understanding is it will end with Android 4.0

Point being Meg claiming a lack of fragmentation by webos is some major leg up i think well i just don't think it's nearly as big a deal as she thinks because it doesn't matter to consumers in reality. Thus they should be refocusing on things that are truly problems. WebOS wasn't really fragmented before but that didn't carry the day. So i'm just of the opinion that that point even if true isn't a big deal.

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Originally Posted by akitayo View Post
Yeah that is what I was thinking about it. Most users wants a OS that works , don´t care the version and want a great hardware, and that´s it.

However, at this time Android devices worldwide will have all of them the update version 4.0 until March 2012. I think.
Seems like she's counting on something that's not a big factor now and may be going away as a factor well before WebOS get's publicly released. So some of that comment don't really impress me. Windows 7 isn't fragmented. It's not exactly skyrocketing in popularity.
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Old 02/02/2012, 03:55 PM   #36 (permalink)
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On Android Fragmentation:

the understatement: Android Orphans: Visualizing a Sad History of Support
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Old 02/02/2012, 04:19 PM   #37 (permalink)
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The fragmentation point is not something that end users need care about, it's something that developers, both hardware and software, are going to care about. At the moment, my current client has asked me to develop their software for iOS and Android, although the publisher has not committed to Android at this time. The publisher's accountant is going to have a massive fit, when she sees our proposal for costs involved with QA testing on Android - at least a dozen devices, and the time and people to operate them. Probably more than a dozen devices, although manufacturers will pick up part of that tab. It's been suggested that we only support Tegra devices running Android 4, and damn everyone else. Which makes the QA process a lot cheaper, but also leaves you a whole hell of a lot fewer customers.
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Old 02/02/2012, 04:26 PM   #38 (permalink)
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That was shot down mightily when it first popped up on the web, and is even more out of date now. Sorry.

Start off with the top line. Can the original iPhone be realistically upgraded to iOS 5 (the latest version)? I think not. Can even the original 3G hack it? Again, not by my understanding, or according to Apple tech support:

iPhone: Which iOS 5 software features does my iPhone support?

Secondly, even at the time, the list of Android phones had been cherry picked to make the situation look worse, and is completely outdated now. Note that it doesn't include best-selling phones like the Samsung Galaxy S series.

Next, I seem to recall (because it's deliberately not made clear in the graphic) that they were treating Android 2.2 Froyo and 2.3 Gingerbread as separate major versions, which is disengenous. Sure there were some nice features added in 2.3, but all apps coded for 2.2 would run fine in 2.3.

I agree with those here noting that while there's certainly fragmentation in the Android world it's nothing like the issue for the non-techy consumer as it's made out to be. Far more annoying in the Android world is the 'fragmentation' caused by manufacturers and carriers slapping their own bloatware on top of stock Android, but even then most consumers really wouldn't let that stop them choosing Android - indeed the bloatware is a large part of what distinguishes the phones from each other in non-techy consumers' minds.

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Old 02/02/2012, 04:32 PM   #39 (permalink)
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Spyke,

It doesn't say that the original iPhone can be updated to iOS 5. It says that the 3GS and up can be. Which is absolutely true. What it does say, is that those devices all have the last operating system made for them, which is also completely true.

No matter the correctness of the data, if you read the text, every single one of the points made is valid -- although something the vast majority of end users know absolutely nothing about, it's more of a developer concern.
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Old 02/02/2012, 04:41 PM   #40 (permalink)
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It doesn't say that the original iPhone can be updated to iOS 5. It says that the 3GS and up can be. Which is absolutely true. What it does say, is that those devices all have the last operating system made for them, which is also completely true.
Well that's certainly not the way I read it now, or at the time. The graphic shows the original iPhone and 3G in green across the chart which surely gives the impression that they are on 'the current version', which had just become iOS 5, to the current date. Not that when they became obsolete they were on the current version at the time.

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No matter the correctness of the data, if you read the text, every single one of the points made is valid -- although something the vast majority of end users know absolutely nothing about, it's more of a developer concern.
Yes, but the points were cherry-picked, and ignored the fact that if you developed for Android 2.1 the vast majority of apps would run fine on the vast majority of devices. Things are getting a bit more of an issue at the moment because of 4.0, and there is a headache for developers there currently, but once through that pain hopefully things will be much better going forward.

Anyway, this is off topic and was done to death last year!

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