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Finally Sept 2012 webOS 1.0 open source
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Old 01/26/2012, 12:06 PM   #41 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by jessicatapley View Post
Don't Adobe and/or Microsoft have to make the plug in to enable this? Otherwise, wouldn't Linux and Chrome OS already have it?
webOS, Android, desktop Linux, and Chrome OS already have the Flash plugin. Desktop Linux, Android, and webOS do not have a Silverlight plugin. I think it is built into Chrome OS
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Old 01/26/2012, 12:10 PM   #42 (permalink)
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Your analysis of the major roadmap milestones is also quite perceptive ...

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Well, when I realized the roadmap wasn't the simplest, least-effort concept of "release source code -> ? -> profit" it was worth thinking through. An early release of Enyo means it was either low-hanging fruit or gave some advantage (or both). Add in the Flashcard announcement, which required giving the dev access to the tools and time to complete it, shows real thought and understanding combined with actual effort.

I have to honestly say that I was mentally prepping myself for HP to post some source code and walk away.

Once it became apparent that this was a plan that had already been partially executed, each of the other items deserved attention. Switching to stock linux kernels could have just been a way of avoiding some code distribution issues but does simplify things for the community and manufacturers.

The Qt adoption was particularly interesting, since Nokia has halfway orphaned Qt. I know that the Qt toolkit had a strong following in the Linux community (and was somewhat devisive before they changed the licensing) but the status of Qt would normally cause a project to give it a wide berth. That means it either has technical benefits over the alternatives, HP/alm/WOSI have a stable of Qt devs on tap, or that it is being leveraged as a way to pick up more apps/devs. My suspicion is that all of the above are true to some extent.

It was also notable that the roadmap puts releasing core services ahead of the GUI. Releasing the GUI+Enyo first would have let people start rolling it into their own Linux package, or even on top of Windows. It could have been argued that would expose it to the most users/developers, especially since no hardware is available. I suspect it would have turned WebOS into another GUI environment, like KDE or Gnome, that got rolled into other Linux distros, effectively destroying its identity. By saving the actual user-facing components for the very end it maintains the coherency of WebOS as a complete OS and not just a GUI framework.

While I don't expect any first-tier hardware releases soon, this will make it possible for the WebOS project to have a list of qualified reference designs and possibly MetaDoctor scripts ready for existing unlocked devices ahead of the actual release of WebOS. HTC's announcement that all their Android phones will be unlocked gives me hope that I might be able to turn a Sprint-activated Android phone into a WebOS phone.

Last edited by kigmatzomat; 01/26/2012 at 12:17 PM.
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Old 01/26/2012, 12:18 PM   #43 (permalink)
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Perhaps they'll be using Moonlight

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Moonlight - Silverlight for Linux: a free plug-in.

Moonlight is an open source implementation of Microsoft Silverlight for Unix systems. With Moonlight you can access videos, applications and content created for Silverlight on Linux.
However after some digging, it seems that a bigger barrier to Netflix running in touchpad browser isn't a Silverlight plugin itself, but Netflix's use of "Microsoft Playready Digital Rights Management".

This has to be licensed from MS, if not distributed by them, such as the case with the Silverlight plugin on Macs. It is possible HP might license this as a non-open plugin for the touchpad and their own devices, but 3rd party device manufacturers would probably have to license it themselves. Seems like a big barrier to me

Last edited by jcerwinske; 01/26/2012 at 12:26 PM.
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Old 01/26/2012, 01:13 PM   #44 (permalink)
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Apple is selling 15 million iPads per quarter at the highest price and profit margins. Just about every component in it is custom-designed and manufactured. They design their own chips to optimize what their proprietary OS can do. If you think that some low volume manufacturer is going to build and ship hardware that is anywhere near comparable to what the current iPad hardware will be then you are living in a fantasy land.
My post did not warrant a reply from you. We know what you bias is and you don't have to turn every little thing said with Apple in it into an argument. If you read the post correctly, it states that we should be using the iPad as the standard, not the other tablets that were listed.

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Last edited by k4ever; 01/26/2012 at 01:19 PM.
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Old 01/26/2012, 01:57 PM   #45 (permalink)
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We are never going to agree on this, if you think the best way to build share and relaunch is to rush out so-so hardware in a three month time-scale simply to get something out there then I think that is a recipe for disaster. What is needed is a compelling well thought device that will get column inches and attract the eye of the mass market - anything less will disappear into the dustbin of history.




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No, what REALLY needs is devices/hardware selled with so many formats that gonna be possible, in so many countries that gonna possible, in so many prices that gonna be possible, with so many ads that gonna be possible.

The people only buy devices: 1) That is available, 2) that can put in your wallet and 3) that listen something good about...

Three months can be enough or not, and only depends how many $$$ the companies invest...

No more, and no less...


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Old 01/26/2012, 02:05 PM   #46 (permalink)
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Using the standard Linux Kernel means we can port webOS to the desktop with ease. Depending on the speed of your machine the kernel usually takes less than an hour to compile. As long as they release the source code for all of the other components as planned we could see webOS on the desktop by the end of the year. Using Qt was smart also. We can get some really cool KDE apps on webOS like Amarok.
So you are saying my webOS Carputer dreams are still possible.
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Old 01/26/2012, 02:10 PM   #47 (permalink)
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Perhaps they'll be using Moonlight



However after some digging, it seems that a bigger barrier to Netflix running in touchpad browser isn't a Silverlight plugin itself, but Netflix's use of "Microsoft Playready Digital Rights Management"(
Nope, the biggest barrier is going to be how Silverlight uses up a ton of resources on the computer. My 1.6Ghtz with 4GB of RAM isn't enough to run Netflix through my browser. Really it's because of my laptop's lower GPU but I don't think I would see too many tablets that have the processing power in a GPU and CPU to run Silverlight from the Netflix site.
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Old 01/26/2012, 02:29 PM   #48 (permalink)
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Nope, the biggest barrier is going to be how Silverlight uses up a ton of resources on the computer. My 1.6Ghtz with 4GB of RAM isn't enough to run Netflix through my browser. Really it's because of my laptop's lower GPU but I don't think I would see too many tablets that have the processing power in a GPU and CPU to run Silverlight from the Netflix site.
Isn't the NetFlix app that runs on Android and iOS just a web app with the Silverlight plugin?
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Old 01/26/2012, 10:25 PM   #49 (permalink)
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Inform me. How easy would it be to build a basic hardware design which could easily run your choice of Android, webOS or even windows 8. If so a tablet manufacturer could take position in all markets or any one with reduced time. Tablet prices are headed down and flexibility so as to get reduced unit cost with economy of scale will be necessary. This might let the indies to compete with Apple.
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Old 01/27/2012, 04:35 AM   #50 (permalink)
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In any case, unless Microsoft/Netflix provides the goods from their end, you can't just run Netflix at will. The good news is Netflix isn't particularly picky about providing app access and have a Netflix "app" on almost every set top box, smart TV, video game console, and OS. The bad news is that there IS an unspoken minimum threshold that needs to be met for their participation, and most open source OSes don't meet it.

Google had the muscle to make it happen (eventually) for Chrome OS. HP wasn't able to make it happen for webOS as a proprietary product. Maybe things will be different with open source if/when we get some critical mass....
If what was posted earlier is right, and HP's new version of WebKit comes with a Silverlight plugin, then yes you will be able to run NetFlix from the browser. Those are big ifs though. Guess we will see in the coming months.


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Old 01/27/2012, 07:00 AM   #51 (permalink)
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Isn't the NetFlix app that runs on Android and iOS just a web app with the Silverlight plugin?
Nope
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Old 01/27/2012, 12:27 PM   #52 (permalink)
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The important matter is Bill Veghte Chief Strategy Officer made a schedule with all webOS team and he is following it and everyone to accomplish all the phases. Maybe in a conservative time projection.
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Old 01/27/2012, 01:40 PM   #53 (permalink)
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However in all honesty, I don't expect any real name brand devices at Christmas or CES. What I *do* expect is that one or more Chinese Android tablet makers will decide to ship tablets that are WebOS-qualified and that *maybe* have a WebOS/Android CD in the box to let people play with that. Which gives developers something to test against, which is the main goal.
However this sounds logical, I don't believe in such scenario. Small players will continue to offer cheap Android tablets because "Android devices for less money than Samsung's tablets" are their only selling point. Why should some small almost invisible company produce device with also almost invisible operating system? To make distance from Samsung and Asus? No, those guys want to be next to Asus and Samsung and to offer same as they do, but for 1/3 of their price. small players will embrace Open webOS only if some of big players decide to offer it first.
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Old 01/27/2012, 04:32 PM   #54 (permalink)
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Small players will continue to offer cheap Android tablets because "Android devices for less money than Samsung's tablets" are their only selling point. Why should some small almost invisible company produce device with also almost invisible operating system? To make distance from Samsung and Asus? No, those guys want to be next to Asus and Samsung and to offer same as they do, but for 1/3 of their price. small players will embrace Open webOS only if some of big players decide to offer it first.
I said that I expected some devices to be WebOS-qualified and maybe have a WebOS install disk in the box; not that devices would ship with WebOS installed. The odds of getting a new WebOS device in 2012 are somewhere between zero and nil.

Getting "qualified" for WebOS may be as simple as shipping one of their devices (with Android installed) to the WebOS team (whoever/wherever that is) who tests if WebOS installs and meets certain basic requirements (wifi, multitouch, accelerometer, bluetooth, speakers, etc). And maybe a small payment for effort and to return the device.

In which case that unknown OEM will have a small, but essentially desperate, market for their Android tablet. It may be something of a novelty but that might be enough to differentiate the product from the rest of the no-name android tablets.

Let's be honest, the people who seek out the no-name android tablets are either developers & geeks looking for something inexpensive they can afford to break or cheap/poor people. The devs and geeks may be more likely to choose a tablet that is also WebOS-capable because it reassures them that they can put other flavors of Linux/Android on it and the cheap/poor types may find that to be the tipping point feature as well. ("Well if I don't like the Android version I can try that there WebOS thing or maybe Ubuntu")
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Old 01/27/2012, 05:08 PM   #55 (permalink)
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Nope
I'm interested to know the inner workings of the app on these two platforms..


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Old 01/27/2012, 05:38 PM   #56 (permalink)
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I'm interested to know the inner workings of the app on these two platforms..


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Looks like it's HTML5 for stand alone devices and for the mobile apps. Silverlight is just too much of a resource hog to to work on those devices. Here's an article I found on it.

Netflix Talks HTML5 in its Device Apps
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Old 01/27/2012, 07:11 PM   #57 (permalink)
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Looks like it's HTML5 for stand alone devices and for the mobile apps. Silverlight is just too much of a resource hog to to work on those devices. Here's an article I found on it.

Netflix Talks HTML5 in its Device Apps
What the deuce!! If the app is written in HTML5 then any modern mobile device should be able to run the app! Why in the he11 is NetFlix holding this up for the TouchPad? It should be darn easy to port this over.


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Old 01/28/2012, 03:13 AM   #58 (permalink)
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What the deuce!! If the app is written in HTML5 then any modern mobile device should be able to run the app! Why in the he11 is NetFlix holding this up for the TouchPad? It should be darn easy to port this over.


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Likely something along the lines of them being lazy and the TP being previously written off as dead...though hopefully we'll see a Nexflix app pop up eventually seeing how it's aiming to be another open source platform, and there are now quite a few users of TP after all those firesales going off...
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Old 01/28/2012, 03:40 AM   #59 (permalink)
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Once it became apparent that this was a plan that had already been partially executed, each of the other items deserved attention. Switching to stock linux kernels could have just been a way of avoiding some code distribution issues but does simplify things for the community and manufacturers.
But that one might be tough. Google has tried this but failed, because Linus doesn't think their solutions are the Right Ones™ IIRC. From looking at Palm's patches they mostly use an Android kernel, so they are in the same boat.

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Originally Posted by kigmatzomat View Post
The Qt adoption was particularly interesting, since Nokia has halfway orphaned Qt. I know that the Qt toolkit had a strong following in the Linux community (and was somewhat devisive before they changed the licensing) but the status of Qt would normally cause a project to give it a wide berth. That means it either has technical benefits over the alternatives, HP/alm/WOSI have a stable of Qt devs on tap, or that it is being leveraged as a way to pick up more apps/devs. My suspicion is that all of the above are true to some extent.
Seriously guys, stop dreaming about Qt apps. Qt is used solely for backend purposes, meaning the Display and Window (Card) Manager is written using qt-gui and qt-opengl. It's in the same way as webOS has "support" for EGL. If you want Qt applications you will still have to draw using either SDL or OpenGL and link statically.
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Old 01/31/2012, 06:07 PM   #60 (permalink)
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What the deuce!! If the app is written in HTML5 then any modern mobile device should be able to run the app! Why in the he11 is NetFlix holding this up for the TouchPad? It should be darn easy to port
our html5 does not seem to be very complete. Going to html5test.com gives a less than mediocre rating. Why won't the kindle web app work? Missing features in the WebOS rendering engine. Popcap has a Bejeweled instance in a web app. It will not run on my Touchpad.
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