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Community created webos devices
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Old 02/08/2012, 08:33 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by the_tyrant View Post
I asked around a bit more, and something like this:
Click to view quoted image

Click to view quoted image


running a generic chipset(one of the extremely common ones) is not that hard to do
quality control is going to be hard, but designing the device and producing it is possible

the only diffuculty from a technological point of view is the form factor (I don't think a knockoff pre is a good idea), and the gesture area. I asked and it seems like that a dedicated gesture area is extremely rare, most phones have capacative buttons.
Why would you pay for a phone that is either on par or worse than the original Pre?
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Old 02/09/2012, 01:09 AM   #22 (permalink)
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Just be patient guys (how can we after all the "in coming months" we've already endured)... But as others have said, once webOS source code is released as open source, it'll make its way to a few devices.
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Old 02/09/2012, 04:21 AM   #23 (permalink)
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While technically Sprint and Verizon do have to whitelist devices for their network (though they may have changed that to a blacklist now that the number of devices is so astronomical compared to the days when I was working with them), and technically they can lock a device out of the network, it's rarely if ever used for anything but theft cases. However, if someone creates some software that farks things up ... all bets are off.
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Old 02/09/2012, 07:00 AM   #24 (permalink)
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it could be done
1.Need open source webOS
2.if few thousand of the forum members can spend a thousand dollars

however it will not be possible to use them in US CDMA market. We need sprint,verizon to bless these devices along with FCC certification.

Unlocked GSM is possible.
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Old 02/16/2012, 02:40 PM   #25 (permalink)
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I would suggest anyone really interested in going down this road talk to the guys at OpenPandora

They did something similar, although no cellular or phone companies to deal with.

Their's was not without issues though...

-Suntan
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Old 03/01/2012, 11:40 PM   #26 (permalink)
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I would suggest anyone really interested in going down this road talk to the guys at OpenPandora

They did something similar, although no cellular or phone companies to deal with.

Their's was not without issues though...

-Suntan
I've got one, took two years from when I preordered to get to my doorstep & the quality was atrocious, i'm about to send my second unit back for another replacement.

still a nice piece of kit tho, really great concept & piece of electronics history... would trade for pre 3 tho lol
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Old 03/02/2012, 12:17 PM   #27 (permalink)
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The big problem with going the China OEM route, is that these are companies that exist to make profit by doing large volumes, and so that presents several challenges we would have to deal with:

1) The very fact that we would be talking about an initial production run of only a couple thousand units initially as opposed to tens of thousands will already be a bit of a turn off for them. Some will reject the idea outright, and it's important to realize that for the ones that do entertain the idea, we would find our project put on the back burner whenever a large order from another customer required additional resources to meet their deadline.

2) They are probably not very willing to spend a lot of time and effort in the R&D. Designing a good device takes many many times the amount of man hours involved in putting out an ok device, and these OEM's have plenty customers knocking on their doors that just want to buy ok devices from them. As such, they'll be more willing to take the path of least resistance, especially as it will also be the path of most profit in this case.

3) Of course quality control is a big issue - for a lot of these companies the second you turn your back they'll start cutting corners hoping you won't notice.

All this is not to say that I'm writing off the approach - it does have its merits. What I am saying though is that you can't take this approach if you employ the standard customer and manufacturer type of relationship. Rather, you would need to form some sort of joint venture partnership, where you contribute funding, oversight, ideas, insights into what device the market wants, and quality control, and they contribute technical expertise, and the facilities needed to prototype and test.

The arrangement should specify that you retain the Intellectual Property rights to EVERYTHING that comes out of the project. This is not to prevent them, or other Chinese companies from ripping off the product and selling a copy of it illegally - this is China, and a dollar you spend trying to prevent that is a dollar wasted, as it will happen no matter what you do. Rather, it's more to prevent them from claiming ownership of the IP and trying to stop you from producing your product with another manufacturer if your relationship with them goes south. Yes, I know this sounds a bit odd, but as I said before, this is China.

For this to work, the operation will have to be based in China. Your managers will have to be based there, not necessarily in the same city where the factory is located, but certainly close enough that they can be there at least once a week or twice a week or so and continuously during critical periods. Forget about telecommuting and outsourcing - this is not that type of project. This is also for the best in terms of keeping costs down.

In terms of costs, expect to spend a couple million dollars and at least a year before you have a rough prototype that anyone would even want to spend 5 minutes trying out. How much longer, and how much more money will it take to get a finished, market ready product? Too early to tell.

OK, so who's going to write us a check for 2 to 3 million dollars or so? Any billionaire webOS fans lurking here in the forums?
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Old 03/02/2012, 04:50 PM   #28 (permalink)
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2 to 3 million would take care of some of the legal and set-up costs - unless you are going to turn out junk or infringe someone else's copyrights, you'd need far far more to actually design and make the phone.
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Old 03/02/2012, 05:46 PM   #29 (permalink)
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2 to 3 million would take care of some of the legal and set-up costs - unless you are going to turn out junk or infringe someone else's copyrights, you'd need far far more to actually design and make the phone.
I'm just talking design and proof of concept prototype at this point, based in China, and using existing facilities by forming a joint venture with an existing OEM. Licensing, manufacturing costs, refinement of the device, even office space for the branded company that will actually take this to market - none of those are in this yet.
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Old 03/03/2012, 05:20 AM   #30 (permalink)
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I'm just talking design and proof of concept prototype at this point, based in China, and using existing facilities by forming a joint venture with an existing OEM. Licensing, manufacturing costs, refinement of the device, even office space for the branded company that will actually take this to market - none of those are in this yet.
OK so now we are getting into the tens if not hundreds of millions of dollars.
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Old 03/03/2012, 01:01 PM   #31 (permalink)
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OK so now we are getting into the tens if not hundreds of millions of dollars.
tell you what - let's just agree to disagree on this one and focus on the other issues at hand. If anyone gets serious enough to put an exploratory team together it'll be easy to get ballpark estimations from potential partner OEMs and resolve the issue of how much money will be needed.
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Old 03/03/2012, 02:33 PM   #32 (permalink)
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What is there to disagree about? You are living in a fantasy world if you think you can turn out anything of any quality without spending many millions of dollars, if you want something that is on par with a mid-range android phone then you are looking at serious amounts of money, if you want something competitive with top of the line phone you are getting into hundreds of million. You need tens of million for R&D alone.

I don't want to sound dismissive but there is no point having a conversation that is not grounded in reality. The Mfc. for a smart-phone is by and large @$190 per unit (or at least it was last time I checked the figures) but it's only that cost because of economics of scale due to the volume of production and the ability to share on-costs and R&D between product lines - trying to knock out a single device at low volumes has none of those advantages.


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Last edited by CGK; 03/03/2012 at 03:25 PM.
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Old 03/03/2012, 03:48 PM   #33 (permalink)
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What is there to disagree about? You are living in a fantasy world if you think you can turn out anything of any quality without spending many millions of dollars, if you want something that is on par with a mid-range android phone then you are looking at serious amounts of money, if you want something competitive with top of the line phone you are getting into hundreds of million. You need tens of million for R&D alone.
As a friend of mine from Hong Kong sometimes says, what we have here is a case of a chicken talking to a duck. What I'm talking about is just the cost of R&D - and only initial R&D at that. I think it's because you missed the key qualifier from my earlier post:

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Originally Posted by marcedhk View Post
In terms of costs, expect to spend a couple million dollars and at least a year before you have a rough prototype that anyone would even want to spend 5 minutes trying out. How much longer, and how much more money will it take to get a finished, market ready product? Too early to tell.
I'm talking about the R&D that will produce a rough, proof of concept device, as in:

"Look it works! webOS has been running all morning without crashing and I can use it to check my webmail!!! What? Yes, I know it weighs 10 pounds! What? No, the finished product won't be powered by a car battery and jumper cables, we're just using that until our investors approve the money we need to design a battery that'll actually fit in the case, and no, the real case won't be a square box of sheet metal like this one is. What? No, there's no App Catalog yet, HP's still asking for licensing fees up front before they grant us access, but I've got a conference call with Bill Veghte next week, so hopefully we can work out a compromise..."
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Old 03/04/2012, 05:49 AM   #34 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by CGK View Post
I don't want to sound dismissive but there is no point having a conversation that is not grounded in reality. The Mfc. for a smart-phone is by and large @$190 per unit (or at least it was last time I checked the figures) but it's only that cost because of economics of scale due to the volume of production and the ability to share on-costs and R&D between product lines - trying to knock out a single device at low volumes has none of those advantages.


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a single device with same internals as in devices from other production lines would keep mfc at $190. Once Open webOS is released it should support majority od hardware so it wouldn't require some strange hardware solutions. Anyway, quality of such device will be an issue. I think, porting route is the only way for Open webOS until some large manufacturer decides to release webOS device.
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Old 03/04/2012, 07:01 AM   #35 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by chalx;3305311[B
]a single device with same internals as in devices from other production lines would keep mfc at $190. [/B]Once Open webOS is released it should support majority od hardware so it wouldn't require some strange hardware solutions. Anyway, quality of such device will be an issue. I think, porting route is the only way for Open webOS until some large manufacturer decides to release webOS device.
But it's only mfc because of volume - the sorts of volume that WebOS never reached with multiple phones across three years, so how does a community event reach that number when the community itself is so tiny?
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Old 03/17/2012, 04:20 AM   #36 (permalink)
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a single device with same internals as in devices from other production lines would keep mfc at $190. Once Open webOS is released it should support majority od hardware so it wouldn't require some strange hardware solutions. Anyway, quality of such device will be an issue. I think, porting route is the only way for Open webOS until some large manufacturer decides to release webOS device.
I have awesome news community of webOS users. My name is Christopher Williams, and I have created a webOS device from the reference design of the Samsung Infuse 4G. My company, wants to take webOS and add everything missing from the fantastic OS it started as. This phone would be 4.5" SAMOLED, 1.2GHZ Hummingbird, and 8MP camera. I have made a few prototypes and also a laptop is on the way as well. WebOS is the best thing to ever happen to the mobile phone industry and we plan to create some exciting hardware to go with it, while adding functionality to the core.
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Old 03/17/2012, 05:52 AM   #37 (permalink)
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I have created a webOS device from the reference design of the Samsung Infuse 4G
Samsung gave you permission to do this??????


Quote:
SAMOLED
I thought that Samsung did not licence or sell this technology to other OEMs???


You might want to get in touch with Derek, if you are making WebOS hardware, I'm sure he'd love to interview you and it would be a good way to let people know what's happening via the front page.

Last edited by CGK; 03/17/2012 at 05:59 AM.
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Old 03/17/2012, 07:06 AM   #38 (permalink)
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Video of prototype working, or it didn't happen. Sorry, I'm not buying it. Doesn't have to be a 5 minute video. 5 seconds is all it would take for PROOF of concept. Don't get me wrong, would love to see something like this. I might have been born at night, but it wasn't last night.
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Old 03/17/2012, 08:27 AM   #39 (permalink)
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Excuse me I don't know much about this stuff but is it just me or is this a bit of i meana hello anybody in moment I mean look where ur posting webos nation 5k users with HP and webos internals listening in.

Surley if people raise 1000s of pounds for webos internals they can do it for u contact the forum moderator and the webos internals devs ask for an front-page article othis site asking for thundraising if we getenough money and designers (i only say that as I am a 3d graphic hobbyist designer and willing to lend ideas l) then we can do this
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Old 03/17/2012, 08:32 AM   #40 (permalink)
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The last fundraising effort made here on this site, specifically raised for webOS Internals, netted about $17,000 USD....note that it was also for a well known, reputable organization. More information, and more proof of concept would be needed, before people start giving their money away, I would think.
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