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The value of an open source webOS just skyrocket?
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Old 12/19/2011, 04:33 PM   #1 (permalink)
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HTC found to infringe on Apple patents. Since Apple and MS share cross licensing agreements, only Android phones are affected. Think this is the opening webOS needs?
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Old 12/19/2011, 04:36 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Very interesting.
Lets see what develops.
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Old 12/19/2011, 04:46 PM   #3 (permalink)
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HTC said in a statement it was pleased the commission reversed a ruling that HTC infringed on another of Apple’s patents and that it narrowed the ruling on the patent in which it did find infringement.
“While disappointed that a finding of violation was still found on two claims of the ’647 patent, we are well prepared for this decision, and our designers have created alternate solutions for the Œ647 patent,”HTC said in a statement.
Trade Body Says HTC Is Violating Apple Patent, Bans Some Imports - Ina Fried - Mobile - AllThingsD
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Old 12/19/2011, 04:51 PM   #4 (permalink)
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It's more than just the technicalities of this particular case. It's about the fear now enstilled in everyone due to Apple's success in the court. webOS could, but the existance of Palm patents, prevent this type of thing in the future. That makes webOS very attractive to manufacturers.

Or HP could have this same tech licensed and would have to remove it to go open source anyway.
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Old 12/19/2011, 04:53 PM   #5 (permalink)
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This is the best blog on this stuff:

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If Google can implement this popular feature, which users of modern-day smartphones really expect, without infringing on the two patent claims found infringed, this import ban won't have any effect whatsoever.

Otherwise HTC will have to remove this feature, which would put HTC at a competitive disadvantage as compared to other smartphone vendors, including other Android device makers.

Either way, this ruling falls far short of anything would force HTC out of the U.S. market in the near term. Also, out of ten patents originally asserted, Apple finally prevailed on only one. Apple will need a higher "hit rate" in the future, and it will have to enforce patents that are greatly more impactful than this one.
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Old 12/19/2011, 05:24 PM   #6 (permalink)
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I don't think HP/Palm are too worried about infringing anyone's patents. They have the upperhand in the patent war, and I don't think apple or anyone else will mess with them, because they know this. Palm knows it so much that they had the balls to include multitouch, before any android phone did, presumably because google was scared of getting sued by apple. Another testament to Palm's balls is when it launched the Pre and they hacked it so it was able to sync with iTunes in direct defiance of Apple.
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Old 12/19/2011, 08:53 PM   #7 (permalink)
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The judge reversed their decision on I think the majority of rulings so HTC doesn't really care. They still make a boatload of money from Android so don't think they will up and drop Android as their main software source.
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Old 12/19/2011, 09:53 PM   #8 (permalink)
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The judge reversed their decision on I think the majority of rulings so HTC doesn't really care. They still make a boatload of money from Android so don't think they will up and drop Android as their main software source.
Agree. they invested too much. It would be like building from ground zero.

Maybe for a new project but it's too late. Their new flagship phones aren't going to be out until later next year. Getting beat up by analysts.

They won't have time, resources or the will to do anything new until possibly 2013 and beyond.
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Old 12/20/2011, 12:38 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by kill_Dano View Post
I don't think HP/Palm are too worried about infringing anyone's patents. They have the upperhand in the patent war, and I don't think apple or anyone else will mess with them, because they know this. Palm knows it so much that they had the balls to include multitouch, before any android phone did, presumably because google was scared of getting sued by apple. Another testament to Palm's balls is when it launched the Pre and they hacked it so it was able to sync with iTunes in direct defiance of Apple.
I have to question this somewhat. HP couldn't find a buyer willing to pay decent money for WebOS. Google paid $12.5 billion just to shore up their patents. If the patents so untouchable then why didn't HTC, Samsung, or even Google buy it? Palm has the upperhand because they are a niche market. If they ever made it to the big leagues then I'd bet that's when Microsoft would pounce to make some money. Nobody ever sues the small companies, they hit'em when they make it big to get the most money. Microsoft makes more off of Android then they do their own OS.
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Old 12/20/2011, 12:13 PM   #10 (permalink)
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The judge reversed their decision on I think the majority of rulings so HTC doesn't really care. They still make a boatload of money from Android so don't think they will up and drop Android as their main software source.
HTC does in fact care. I think you're ignoring this crucial point:

...let's not forget that this is just the first of dozens of lawsuits Apple has already brought against the Android platform. There's a learning curve involved with anything, and patents need to be battle-tested. Chances are that Apple's lawsuits will become more effective.

From CGK's link above.
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Old 12/20/2011, 03:57 PM   #11 (permalink)
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I have to question this somewhat. HP couldn't find a buyer willing to pay decent money for WebOS. Google paid $12.5 billion just to shore up their patents. If the patents so untouchable then why didn't HTC, Samsung, or even Google buy it? Palm has the upperhand because they are a niche market. If they ever made it to the big leagues then I'd bet that's when Microsoft would pounce to make some money. Nobody ever sues the small companies, they hit'em when they make it big to get the most money. Microsoft makes more off of Android then they do their own OS.
There is some catch with Palm's patents and I tend to believe they have no value on the market for some reason. In bidding for Palm (companies A,B,C,D and E), two companies interested only in patents backed off from bidding after looking into Palm's IP portfolio.
But, also, I'm not so sure Palm was out of licensing circus only because webOS is so small. Big boys would crush it if they had any legal grounds to do that.
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Old 12/20/2011, 04:56 PM   #12 (permalink)
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There is some catch with Palm's patents and I tend to believe they have no value on the market for some reason. In bidding for Palm (companies A,B,C,D and E), two companies interested only in patents backed off from bidding after looking into Palm's IP portfolio.
But, also, I'm not so sure Palm was out of licensing circus only because webOS is so small. Big boys would crush it if they had any legal grounds to do that.
No reason to crush it if it doesn't affect you. Android affects them. If webOS were in androids place you would see the lawsuits too.
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Old 12/20/2011, 06:24 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Older patents tend not to be worth as much. For example, Palm may have patented the smartphone, however, chances are that this would never stand up to much scrutiny in court because it's not as if making a phone smarter is really a novel idea. I have heard the value of some patent portfolios is almost measured by the height of the stack of printed paper.
IMHO plenty of patents from everybody won't survive serious court battles involving well-funded parties.

Companies register patents like crazy and make them as broad as possible. And the US PTO is well known for accepting almost every silly patent anybody cares to mail in. It seems that nothing is too obvious or has too much prior art.

Patent portfolios mainly serve as defensive measure vs rival big patent owners and to intimidate smaller rivals.

Legislature and courts have forgotten the original purpose of patents and allowed the system to become counter-productive.
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Old 12/21/2011, 01:09 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Hmmn, in the announcement about open source, I thought HP said they would use their patents to defend developers.

From Derek
"What we’ve noticed are lawsuits over patents. HP told us that they intend to hold on to their patents and will use them to protect developers using webOS."
http://www.webosnation.com/open-source-plan

Now its hard to say right now how this will play out. But I do know that I heard direct from webOS developers in the summer (and was reported in the press) that the phones would not receive updates. And yet today my Sprint 2 received its first OTA update since spring 2010.

So winds of change are in the air. And we will have to see what exactly that entails--the devil is in the details.
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Old 12/21/2011, 07:19 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Idk, with RIM all but being on the market as well, they have larger numbers n would prbz be picked before WuddabeenOS.
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Old 12/21/2011, 08:19 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Idk, with RIM all but being on the market as well, they have larger numbers n would prbz be picked before WuddabeenOS.
Reuters:
RIM board not interested in selling right now. That gives webOS plenty of time to gain traction. Go Palm Go!


"But RIM's management has told interested parties they do not want to sell or break up the company at this juncture, the sources told Reuters. After last week's news, the board instructed the co-CEOs to set aside any options for a sale, one person briefed on the situation said."

Http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/...7BJ26S20111220
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Old 12/21/2011, 10:52 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Honestly, rim would be a perfect suited for webos. There really is no detailed PIM phone is right now. IOS is multimedia, android is customization and windows phone is a combo of webos and ios. Webos could differentiate and not only have multimedia functionality but more detailed pim services. Rim could help with that and integrate its services into webos as well as its ability to emulate android apps. That in itself would be a major boost for webos. It would give rim better UI and webos would be more well known. Considering webos mostly used vertical keyboards it would be perfect. It would be free for them to use I think too since its open source so I dont see why it would hurt. BlackBerry with webos. A new era in smartphones. I dont believe a smartphone should neeed an app to do pim functions thats not included. That breaks the integration of the pim functions among each other. For instance a great calendar app should have an accompanying task app so they can integrate with each other. They need details such as categories, relatives, ECT I can understand the iPhone and android not having detailed pim functions but windows and webos are disappointing in these areas because they were the signature smartphone pim devices.
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Old 12/22/2011, 03:52 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Reuters:
RIM board not interested in selling right now. That gives webOS plenty of time to gain traction. Go Palm Go!
Three weeks before T-mobile and AT&T announced the acquisition, T-mobile CEO stated that T-mobile was looking at possible mergers but there was no chance that T-mobile would be sold. I trust what companies say as far as I can throw them.
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Old 12/22/2011, 06:01 AM   #19 (permalink)
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IANAL
The way i've understood the patent situation is that HP doesn't own most of the best palm patents, but that webOS itself is licensed for those patents in perpetuity. So buying webOS allows you to use those patents and be protected by them for webOS devices, but they wouldn't own them or be able to spread that to their non-webOS devices.

Though i think a device that dual boots webos would have the same patent protections.
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Old 12/24/2011, 05:09 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Dual-boot is not a realistic option, none of the major players support it, you never get access to any marketing dollars that they provide and I am sure they would put many barriers in the way.

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