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The value of an open source webOS just skyrocket?
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Old 12/31/2011, 03:14 PM   #41 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by kalel33 View Post
I understand that aspect but the person I was commenting on thought WebOS could be like the Mac. I was explaining the market share because it's not that much and the reason why Apple is a success is because the charge a premium for their products.
I don't want to set the wrong impression.. I don't think WebOS should/could be like Mac instead I think they should take a few pages from what Mac did to turn themselves around.

I also think creating a few apps that people will think they NEED is the perfect way to create a much larger base & great buzz around WebOS. I wish I had the talents to create apps!

It does amaze me that Apple still only holds 5 percent of the market share, but if you count in their IPADs that share goes to something like 12 percent.. Also, they have become so popular w/ the younger generation that their base is only going to grow in coming years..
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Old 12/31/2011, 09:47 PM   #42 (permalink)
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But even ubunutu gets to 1% because PC hardware is em.. common in a way that phone hardware is not, there is not a HP distro of it, a dell distro of it etc etc. Phone hardware is not the same in this regard, so the number of people who will try this will be many many times lower.
to add to your point the vast majority of computers in the market can pretty easily be dual booted with multiple OS's as well so you can have window whatever, the most popular OS and whatever other OS you want be it ubuntu or whatever. So you can easily have both. That's hard for a phone OS.

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when Apple came back out of no-where back in the day the knock on them was that Developers didn't make applications for their computers & that in order to do anything you had to go Windows..

Well apple did something Amazing that no one ever talks about, and it might be the real reason it has succeeded so well today. Apple began making their own Applications that stood out among the rest: Garageband, Iphoto, Imovie, Itunes were HUGE when it came to creating a computer for the every day person.

Instead of talking about making WebOS work on every device possible, people should put a lot more emphasis on a 4-5 applications that will create vibes throughout the internet!

1. a podcast- Music application that can rival garageband
2. a simple video editing program specifically made for uploading videos to youtube
3. A program that out competes any when it comes to schoolbooks & writing notes. all inclusive type of deal
and
4. Sports.. Gotta get live sports on your webOS device.. I don't care how you do it, but an app that streams all live sports (cost I dont' care)


The fact is, you can put WebOS on every device in the world but people aren't going to use it until they see it do something they can't do.. Or at least don't expect to do. When Apple came out w/ Ilife people thought the world of it and no longer saw the necessity to stay w/ Windows. As a matter of fact, a lot of people went to apple not realizing you can make a Podcast on other computers.. I know this message is long, but the point has remained the same. Great applications need to be made to save WebOS
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Originally Posted by Zukny View Post
I don't want to set the wrong impression.. I don't think WebOS should/could be like Mac instead I think they should take a few pages from what Mac did to turn themselves around.

I also think creating a few apps that people will think they NEED is the perfect way to create a much larger base & great buzz around WebOS. I wish I had the talents to create apps!

It does amaze me that Apple still only holds 5 percent of the market share, but if you count in their IPADs that share goes to something like 12 percent.. Also, they have become so popular w/ the younger generation that their base is only going to grow in coming years..
i respect your argument but i think it's amiss in some areas. And i'm just talking here not having a go at you. Just friendly discussion. But changes at apple came for many reasons but the end result was not the end result webos needs. Apple's changes brought profitability not market share. Profitability of webos would have been nice but if you can't also attract a lot of consumers you have a problem. Regardless it wasn't merely about making some apps that fixed Apple. Jobs returned and streamlined their product line. They axed tons of products. He changed the way they did inventory. Apple to this day only makes what it can sell. Jobs stopped them from having tons of warehouses full of inventory. Then there was the imac. It was a different box, an all inclusive box and a colored box in a sea of white boxes. That was a large part of its appeal. It had no floppy drive. It was different. Better products, less wasted inventory all helps. Not to mention they stopped cannibalizing their own products by ending licensing deals with people make PowerMacs or powerpcs or whatever the name was.

Also the iPod was a massive contribution to Apple's resurgence. It was a game changer. It started the transformation of music consumption along with itunes obviously. That wasn't the first hard drive player but it was the best. It destroyed Sony Walkmans as a product. Itunes basically destroyed the cd as the option for legally buying music. (Can't ignore Napster as a real catalyst too). But itunes made it legal and easy. At one point ipod accounted for more of Apple's profit then computers. It was their most successful product. So HP needs to introduce a product that revolutionizes an industry, that is drastically above everything else in the market. That is a tall order these days. Maybe do to tvs, vcrs, and dvd what ipods did to walkmans, tape decks, and burners but nobody has been successful at that yet. It's a tough ask to say make something that changes the game like the ipod did.

And those were company wide changes and changes to the Apple philosophy where as we wouldn't be talking about a change in HP philosophy but a change in a product. Hell Leo tried to change HP's companies philosophy to try to make them a more enterprise focused company. That got webos where it is now.

Another point about your strategy i'd add is of garage band, iphoto, itunes ect. the most successful is itunes and it's multiplatform because to make selling music and ipods feasible it had to hit pc users. I wouldn't disagree that someone would have to at least make good basic apps but i guess my feeling is apples approach to do it all itself was very different to Microsoft's which was to license the OS and let others make plenty of other apps. Microsoft won that fight by a landslide. And even one of their biggest apps suits, Office, is a multiplatform suite. So the company that is winning the desktop OS war is doing it all while having software that runs on multiple hardware. I think it's would have been a much better strategy.

Interestingly Apple dropped unprofitable products at this time too. Things Jobs thought were not up to par like the Newton. Using that same rational the sad part is the unprofitable product at HP was all the webos devices. Thus i'm not sure strict adherence to what Jobs did at Apple really is what the webos faithful want.

Another thing that helped Apple a great deal was the emergence of the internet. Where before a lack of apps really hurt Apple, (interesting as it hurts webos too) with the growth of the internet, email, social communities like AOL, compuserve etc, much of what people do went onto the internet. Go to Best Buy and count how many people are in software section. Not many. Computer use went internet. the "i" in iMac originally meant internet. Apple didn't need the apps as much. That's why we had the browser wars and litigation over things like bundling browsers with operating systems.

And one thing i'd mention is webos already had a photo app, a video editing app. It's not like they never had a chance to do these correctly. And i'm just not sure how important a note taking or schoolbook app is. Not really sure what that is. And ereader? That shouldn't be hard. There's already kindle. I mean you say create a few apps that people think they need but personally i'm not sure all the ons you mentioned are what most people are screaming they need. As for live sports. Live streamed video is a separate license that has to be negotiated. if you want to stream the NFL you need to buy the rights from the NFL. I may be wrong but it's possible only the NFL official app streams the NFL. But the same applies for all sports. If you want a network that like ABC or something that broadcasts live sports on tv they can only stream that game over the net if they have the streaming rights. These are things that are not entirely up to tech companies to merely have on a device and many things are flat out just expensive. I know you don't care about cost but the tough reality is anyone actually doing it would care.

Generally, Apple's resurgence is more then just making a few good apps and even so i don't think it's directly analogous to HP's or Webos's current situation.
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Old 12/31/2011, 11:29 PM   #43 (permalink)
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You made a lot of good points about Apple & the way they turned things around as a company and maybe we got off track a little bit w/ how to make WebOS a viable option for the long term future....

You are right the i in imac originally stood for internet, but you fail to mention that the imac / ibook were their first internet ready computers which didn't come out until years later compared to other Desktop computers. Their computers were so far back in the beginning (i had the purpble imac) expensive, pretty and ran Mac OS9 Loved it believe it or not, but that's because I was a true mac guy at heart. I loved the idea of making the computer a part of your home rather then a metal box no one wants to see or look at. So in that regard, apple did a lot of things to turn around that company.

But when you bring up the Ipod or Itunes that goes right in hand w/ what I've been saying - They made a few very Good very thought out applications aka Itunes & then Garageband so people can add their own music to Itunes & podcasts.. Granted the IPOD was a device, but you had to download Itunes to use it.

Back to your point.. You said I may have thought of some bad applications .. Well, maybe we should be brainstorming to think of 4-5 applications-uses that could become the stepping stone for people to leave Apple/Windows to come to WebOS.

I'm not sure of a video editing/Music editing program out there for my touchpad But I haven't found any either.. I sadly have misplaced my touchpad right now and can't search their App- catalog at the moment..

But I believe if WebOS really catered to a market maybe (Education) where people will think they have to buy a WebOS tablet to really get the best out of Schoool then we have a strong grass root movement.
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Old 01/01/2012, 03:17 AM   #44 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Zukny View Post
You made a lot of good points about Apple & the way they turned things around as a company and maybe we got off track a little bit w/ how to make WebOS a viable option for the long term future....

You are right the i in imac originally stood for internet, but you fail to mention that the imac / ibook were their first internet ready computers which didn't come out until years later compared to other Desktop computers. Their computers were so far back in the beginning (i had the purpble imac) expensive, pretty and ran Mac OS9 Loved it believe it or not, but that's because I was a true mac guy at heart. I loved the idea of making the computer a part of your home rather then a metal box no one wants to see or look at. So in that regard, apple did a lot of things to turn around that company.

But when you bring up the Ipod or Itunes that goes right in hand w/ what I've been saying - They made a few very Good very thought out applications aka Itunes & then Garageband so people can add their own music to Itunes & podcasts.. Granted the IPOD was a device, but you had to download Itunes to use it.

Back to your point.. You said I may have thought of some bad applications .. Well, maybe we should be brainstorming to think of 4-5 applications-uses that could become the stepping stone for people to leave Apple/Windows to come to WebOS.

I'm not sure of a video editing/Music editing program out there for my touchpad But I haven't found any either.. I sadly have misplaced my touchpad right now and can't search their App- catalog at the moment..

But I believe if WebOS really catered to a market maybe (Education) where people will think they have to buy a WebOS tablet to really get the best out of Schoool then we have a strong grass root movement.
I just looked it up and seems the original iMac G3 shipped with an internal 56k modem http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:IMac_G3_Panel.jpg

I didn't say they were "bad" apps. I love podcasting. I was just saying i'm not sure they are what most consumers want, specifically school and notetaking. Apple catered to schools with its macs. Still barely dented the windows market share. And i'm not sure i see how a touchpad is any more useful then anything else in an education sense. Especially if it doesn't have a fully functioning office suite. But i don't think you're gonna sway people from other platforms with one app or 4 or 5 apps because tastes around the world and even among friends varies. People want choice and options. That's why they want lots of apps. One guy may want fox news another NPR. I dont' netflix or twitter. But others do. And most of the apps people want a HP can't just build. Netflix must make the netflix app. Starbucks Card app must make a starbucks app cause it logs into a card with cash on it. If you need an Etrade app or a Mint.com app it's likely only coming from Etrade or Mint.com because it accesses financial records. I just don't think there's a silver bullet of a few apps. No offense intended. I just think, for webos, it's a flawed strategy. Because people are buying iphones & ipads for the whole package and Android phones simply offer more options, more apps, more forms, and more features.

I don't have a touchpad but i have a pre and it has a video editing app so that's all i know. If there is one on a pre and not a touchpad then they are stupider then i thought they were.

anyways that's my two cents. i'm off to make a cup of coffee even though i have no business drinking caffeine at this hour.
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Old 01/01/2012, 01:36 PM   #45 (permalink)
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I know the Imac g3 was internet ready.. but my point was that many people had "Internet Ready" computers for years before Apple was able to put one on the market. When apple put that computer on the market they were pretty far behind compared to what other companies were doing.. Are u a mac guy? I was one until they ****ed me off w/ the iphone & flash amongst other things.

Anyway,

I guess we disagree about the App situation. To me, people aren't going to use WebOS if they can't do anything on it. There is just no incentive for them to go WebOS w/ out Essential applications. Netflix = essential, Hulu = Essential, Video editing app (not crappy = Essential, and A 4track/ Garageband = Essential... How can anyone convince someone to switch platforms if we don't have some essential apps?

My point has been all along that instead of creating a WebOS platform for every tablet that hits the market, people instead put more effort into creating great apps for it.

I guess my feeling w/ the Education is also different then urs. I envision people going to school w/ just a tablet.. Nothing else. No paper, pencil, anything. Where the Tablet just makes it so easy that it almost becomes a necessity to have. Here is 1 thing we can all bank on as a whole.. No matter what your opinion is.. In The Future, People will ONLY use tablets in school.. How far are we from that? I don't know, but I Would love to be part of a OS that leads the way.

I want my tablet to record the lecture as I type my notes. While the lecture syncs w/ my notes & My notes sync w/ the book i'm using for class. (maybe there already is an app that does that on the ipad) but I really don't know.. And I think it would be an amazing piece.

Well.. I feel like i'm losing this battle but i just want good things to happen so i'm sitting here dreaming.
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Old 01/01/2012, 04:15 PM   #46 (permalink)
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oh i say we are very close... just a couple of many articles if you google...

3 Canadian Colleges Move to iPad Textbooks -- Campus Technology

Replacing a Pile of Textbooks With an iPad - NYTimes.com

DailyTech - Maine to Spend $200K on iPads for Kindergarteners

these kids growing up will be lucky... i remember going to campus with about 30+lbs of books in my jansport stuffed until the seams were showing.

so close where you only need one tablet, record the lectures with voice recorder, take pics of the board for certain notes and paste it all on a electronic journal... or imagine soon all classes will have wifi so that all board work will be transmitted to wirelessly and watched through your tab.

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In The Future, People will ONLY use tablets in school.. How far are we from that? I don't know, but I Would love to be part of a OS that leads the way.
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Old 01/01/2012, 08:04 PM   #47 (permalink)
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Yes, but luckily most tablets including the Ipad don't have the 'precision' needed to write the quality notes you would want to write on a tablet yet.

I know my touchpad doesn't have it either and it's disspaointing.

I am ready to draw top notch drawings on Photoshop & write perfect/small font notes on my tablet... Right now it's possible to do that w/ certain tablets but they are sick pricing I Believe. & they usually use regular windows on them rather then actually have a OS - app made applications
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Old 01/01/2012, 08:58 PM   #48 (permalink)
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well, your last post you sounded like you were generalizing a world where students can just take a tablet to class so I was just giving examples. I think for general use of going to classes and taking notes, i think apps like goodnotes show that we are getting closer and imo the ability of notes looks to be getting there.

i would imagine for more precision fonts you can add a bt keyboard maybe attached to a tablet cover or a la asus transformer or one of the many apps available will have ability to type keys via the virtual keyboard for certain areas of the note or graphic. again, i dont think we are very far off.

GoodNotes - Take Notes & Annotate PDF docs w/ Dropbox for iPad on the iTunes App Store



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Yes, but luckily most tablets including the Ipad don't have the 'precision' needed to write the quality notes you would want to write on a tablet yet.

I know my touchpad doesn't have it either and it's disspaointing.

I am ready to draw top notch drawings on Photoshop & write perfect/small font notes on my tablet... Right now it's possible to do that w/ certain tablets but they are sick pricing I Believe. & they usually use regular windows on them rather then actually have a OS - app made applications
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