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About Porting webOS to devices
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Old 12/12/2011, 08:41 AM   #1 (permalink)
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I know, I know. Everyone here wants to have a Galaxy S2 kind of hardware running webOS ASAP. The issue is: if you want webOS evolve and have a future, you must re-elaborate your thoughts and leave the porting fancy to the hobbyists (there will be a lot, don't worry).

For now, we don't have more than a promise from HP on opensourcing the platform, and this will take months, probably more than a year. Meanwhile, and until every necessary piece of code is published, all the porting efforts will be slow and painful.

So, meanwhile, I think the user space debate must be different: webOS will not have future on the porting space away from us, webOS enthusiasts. The only way webOS will have a commercial future is getting OEMs on board. So, the users' community efforts must be headed towards getting OEMs on board.

If we get only one of the big ones on board, making one single device, the webOS landscape will change, and all the "webOS is dead" aligned media will have to change their minds, and webOS will be officially in the user space again. And this can be done, although there isn't any line of code opensourced yet. Palm people will sure help any OEM to make it possible.

All we can do is start the run, but it's the only thing that needs to be done.
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Old 12/12/2011, 10:46 PM   #2 (permalink)
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I completely agree with what you've stated here. My question is, what is the best way to get the ball rolling? Completely serious, I want more webOS devices out there ASAP.
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Old 12/12/2011, 11:31 PM   #3 (permalink)
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I completely agree with what you've stated here. My question is, what is the best way to get the ball rolling? Completely serious, I want more webOS devices out there ASAP.
honestly the only way i think we can do this is to either go to OEMs and try to persuade them to create a device for us or we all should come together and build a com,unity device. I honestly think its very possible espicialy with all the gifted minds on this site.

Honestly this is my dream device



A badass WebOS device designed by bhughes719 from our community.

Am i the only one who sees this possibility XD

(but we need to kill the pre name i like it but its tainted too much =[ )
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Old 12/13/2011, 04:03 AM   #4 (permalink)
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The problem is this - I can't think of any parallel where an OEM has entered any tech sector because of pleading by consumers who *promise* to buy a product. I know that we are suppose to big-up the community but we have to get real, at this stage the community is irrelevant, the numbers are too small.

Open source WebOS will live or dead based upon HP's ability to convince others it is a viable option and that means that HP needs to hand the transition carefully. At this stage, if people want to putting pressure on someone, it's pressure on HP rather than some random OEM.

Who can do this?

Odd as it seems the people with the most power are the small band of developers the platform has - they actually need to organise and say they will walk away if HP's time-scale is too long or the governance of the project is too restrictive to attract interest.
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Old 12/13/2011, 02:17 PM   #5 (permalink)
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honestly the only way i think we can do this is to either go to OEMs and try to persuade them to create a device for us or we all should come together and build a com,unity device. I honestly think its very possible espicialy with all the gifted minds on this site.

Honestly this is my dream device

Click to view quoted image

A badass WebOS device designed by bhughes719 from our community.

Am i the only one who sees this possibility XD

(but we need to kill the pre name i like it but its tainted too much =[ )
Probably an old joke, but how about the "Post?"
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Old 12/13/2011, 04:13 PM   #6 (permalink)
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According to Nielsen, webOS had more subscribers than Windows Phone last quarter. I think it's time to make sure that HTC, LG or Samsung have an interesting piece of the pie waiting for webOS devices.

Sure they know, but maybe they don't have though they can be the ones.

Any of them can reuse any cool device design and launch a webOS version of it in a matter of minutes (I'm exagerating, but you get the idea), and for companies like Samsung (with 90 phone models) or HTC, it's little to no risk to release a webOS device.

As usual in these cases, I think the way to proceed is to flood their contact methods (support forums, twitter, facebook, email) asking them about this. That doesn't assure absolutely anything at all, but it cost zero, and if we can get them to look at the options, there is the possibility they'll do it.

It's now the moment to get their commitment (not devices, it will take time). When webOS dissapears from the ratings (and in some cases like Nielsen it's going to happen sooner than latter) we'll not have any objective argument, other than technical ones.
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Old 12/13/2011, 04:50 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by CGK View Post
The problem is this - I can't think of any parallel where an OEM has entered any tech sector because of pleading by consumers who *promise* to buy a product. I know that we are suppose to big-up the community but we have to get real, at this stage the community is irrelevant, the numbers are too small.
It's not about promising anything. It's about try them to put their eyes here and evaluate the possibilities. As I've said, there is little risk for htc (as example) to run a small batch of, let's say, htc radar hardware with a different shell to evaluate the market.They've done it before, when they were a simple OMD with their i-mate, and half a dozen plus brands when the smartphone market was much smaller than now.

Also, HTC is platform agnostic, and they've spent all this year failing on their forecasts (although being profitable)... They must evaluate every possible alternative.
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Old 12/13/2011, 07:41 PM   #8 (permalink)
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well if this is any constallation, I myself am and have been committed to webos since its intial launch. I have contacted Samsung, HTC, and LG personally about licensing Webos and making a device as my record label will also promote and sponser such device running Webos with any or all of these venders. I will keep everyone up to date as to what they say. I have also contacted HP about the record label sponsering Webos smartphones if any new ones are made, when we go on tour, interviews, commerical etc. I like everyone here want to help as best as I can, because I dont want to see webos die off. IMO it is the best OS ever created, and needs continue support from all of us.
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Old 12/13/2011, 10:47 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Just tell me what to do and I will do it... for me a brand new WebOs device I'd easily shell out the cash (in contract or not). For the time being I'm fine with rocking the Pixi for the next year or so (especially considering a replacement brand new Pixi would only be $40)
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Old 12/15/2011, 10:19 AM   #10 (permalink)
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It really comes down to drivers and reference platforms. The Coby and Pantech-class of manufacturers usually take an ODM reference design, apply some stickers and a new case, and build it. These manufacturers are going to be the first wave of WebOS devices.

So WebOS needs a stable of drivers for existing and upcoming reference designs. I figure there are 4 tiers of drivers:
  1. usable as-is & open source/freely distributable license)
  2. usable as-is but needs licensing
  3. possibly workable & open/distributable
  4. does not work & closed source

My suggestion (not being a coder) would be to see what drivers could be plundered from Meego and Android. Meego is based on a linux kernel so odds are lots of Meego drivers will be usable as-is.

After that, see what are the common platforms not covered. If we are talking phones, I'd shoot for the WinPhone platform; every manufacturer has a WinPhone handset that isn't exactly flying off of shelves. They might be willing to experiment with WebOS if all it takes is reflashing the device and applying a different sticker to the case.

For tablets I'd target the BB Playbook/Kindle Fire platform, the NVidia Tegra series, and the Intel MID.

Why Intel? Meego only has limited uptake, mainly as a nav system, and a small user base. Intel could use the somewhat rabid WebOS fanbase to get one of those low-end OEMs to produce x86 WebOS tablets and possibly get some consumer market traction. And Intel is willing to spend money.
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Old 12/16/2011, 09:28 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deCorvett View Post
snip

For now, we don't have more than a promise from HP on opensourcing the platform, and this will take months, probably more than a year.

Snip

The only way webOS will have a commercial future is getting OEMs on board.

Couldn't agree more.... However, OEMs aren't even going to consider making a device until the open sourcing is complete and they have vetted it against possible IP claims. This could be 12 - 18 months from now.
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Old 12/16/2011, 09:53 AM   #12 (permalink)
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This sounds like a slow painful process.
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Old 12/16/2011, 10:29 AM   #13 (permalink)
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My Pre+ is dying and i need to make a change. I'm one of these guys that has never had a real problem with the Pre hardware. I love the size and keyboard. The Android phones are two big and I like having a keyboard.

The Torch seems like great hardware, can we get WebOs on it.
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Old 12/16/2011, 12:48 PM   #14 (permalink)
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What's the best way to get OEMs to take up webOS? The same way anyone gets interest, by providing a proof of concept device.

You may think people porting webOS is not a great way forward but it actually is the only way, at this time, to provide proof of concept and thus get interest.

Add to this a bit of fantasy based on something known and you get; Qualcomm who make the chipset for most phones publicly came out backing webOS, they were never going to buy it because it lay outside their business market, but they may be interested in allowing a sneak peek of the new Snapdragon platform to OEMs if they play with webOS. This provides incentives for OEMs to pick up webOS as well as Android/WP7.x and so we end up with devices.
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Old 12/16/2011, 01:10 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by kigmatzomat View Post
It really comes down to drivers and reference platforms. The Coby and Pantech-class of manufacturers usually take an ODM reference design, apply some stickers and a new case, and build it. These manufacturers are going to be the first wave of WebOS devices.

So WebOS needs a stable of drivers for existing and upcoming reference designs. I figure there are 4 tiers of drivers:
  1. usable as-is & open source/freely distributable license)
  2. usable as-is but needs licensin
  3. possibly workable & open/distributable
  4. does not work & closed source
My suggestion (not being a coder) would be to see what drivers could be plundered from Meego and Android. Meego is based on a linux kernel so odds are lots of Meego drivers will be usable as-is.
After that, see what are the common platforms not covered. If we are talking phones, I'd shoot for the WinPhone platform; every manufacturer has a WinPhone handset that isn't exactly flying off of shelves. They might be willing to experiment with WebOS if all it takes is reflashing the device and applying a different sticker to the case.
For tablets I'd target the BB Playbook/Kindle Fire platform, the NVidia Tegra series, and the Intel MID.
Why Intel? Meego only has limited uptake, mainly as a Nat system, and a small user base. Intel could use the somewhat
rabid WebOS fanbase to get one of those low-end OEMs to produce x86 WebOS tablets and possibly get some consumer
market traction. And Intel is willing to spend money.

Except I don't think MS is going to be thrilled w this idea, but they hardly have the same leverage w/ the mobile platform & it would be unwise to push a phone maker & risk future WM7 headsets.

The crazy thing is a phone maker could make the jump into truly offering a flagship phone to carriers that supports Android, Webos, & WM7. The customer comes in & buys the phone & can pick their OS. Huge money saver & you could pour more into making a truly awesome phone with 1 production line.

if only I had the capital.
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Old 12/19/2011, 12:23 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Most of the WinPhones are retreads of an android device already in the manufacturer's lineup. Microsoft chose very common hardware components to standardize on to make it easier to entice the OEMs. Following in their footsteps might irritate MS on some level but it's not like they were trailblazers by any means.

The main reason you'll never see a "load your own OS" in a carrier store is that it creates massive inefficiencies. Carriers have to load an OS before they activate your phone (ack!) and they'll have to have multiple user manuals for that device. What if the store was out of manuals for your flavor of OS?

Additionally, carriers don't really want to be responsible for the distribution of software (even if they want to control it) and it cuts out potential marketing dollars from the OS supplier. It's not uncommon for Google or MS to provide some money for a commercial that only demonstrates their OS.

The core difference between buying a PC at Dell and a phone from AT&T is that phones *must* work with a service and if you buy it from a carrier store, user's expect it to work immediately. Dell isn't responsible if your PC doesn't like to work with your DSL carrier, as long as the USB/network port is working correctly.
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Old 12/19/2011, 08:43 PM   #17 (permalink)
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I do like the idea of having the choice of the OS on the hardware you want.
Might not be possible at the Carrier's store, but the phones could be commercialized as such. Same hardware, similar name, different OS on the same carrier. Just a few more boxes for the carrier to hold in stock. Pick the box you want, with the hardware you want and OS you want...
Heck if the customer is not happy with the OS the phone can actually be flashed by the customer with ROMS available online with online manuals and so on...

How about an alternative if a customer is not satisfied with an OS!!! I like choice and most of us here on webOS nation do like to have a choice.
If this ever happens I'm in !
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Old 02/12/2012, 09:36 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Hmm. Reading the topic lead, I thought this was going to be about which devices people want to see webOS on. For me, this is two-fold. One, I think the Pre3 was a good device and was planning to buy it [I saved my upgrade since May of last year, and my wife's for over a year. I still have my wife's but I blew mine on a Droid 3 in Oct. I would trade it for a Pre 3. And I would have been waiting for a Pre4, 5, etc. I believed HP could make it happen since they were in a marathon not a sprint. Anyway, I would like to be able to port webOS to my Droid 3, and some future devices. But, it would have to have full functionality. Not, oh, the BT doesn't work, but it runs. Also, it needs to run well.

Anyway, I have been a webOS fan and before that Palm for many years. I have hope that webOS will gain more mindshare...
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Old 02/16/2012, 11:57 AM   #19 (permalink)
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I think mindshare is a big part of the game. Get touchpads basking in the glory that is opensource, pump up any porting attempts, show lots of love to developers, and keep reminding OEMs that we want webOS. I go onto HTC's facebook page at least once a week to complement their hardware and remind them that I can't wait for them to put out a webOS phone.

Granted, I'm just one voice - but if someone sees a positive post about webOS, I think that's better than nothing.

I also think it's important to be positive about it instead of negative! Good vibes bring great things! I am glad to see this community lighting up again after a dark few months.
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Old 02/19/2012, 06:12 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Just like someone at HP got Android on the TP, maybe some engineers at HTC, Samsung, etc might try to do the same thing with webOS (once it's fully out) on one or two of their devices, just to see how it runs?

There's a thought...
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