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Will the time it takes to open source, kill WebOS?
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Old 12/13/2011, 07:29 AM   #21 (permalink)
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Nice analysis from Forbes on the webOS opportunity, I summarized it here:

http://forums.webosnation.com/webos-...portunity.html
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Old 12/13/2011, 08:39 AM   #22 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by ungenius View Post
i'll admit when i used the touchpad at the store when they first came out i was like 'meh'
but thats what i have been like for all the tablets (especially the playbook)
but when you get one at home and start using it, its actually pretty fun, and most of the stock apps are actually really well made (although they could be improved a little, specifically the music player)

when i side loaded android on to the touchpad i used it.. started installing apps (which there are some pretty nifty apps, which i think im probably going to start trying to make for the touchpad in the next few weeks) and got bored of it trying to do just normal **** like viewing email or webpages then going back and into an app.. nowhere near as nice as webos
Nifty??

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Old 12/13/2011, 09:16 AM   #23 (permalink)
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Every time a firesale takes place, I'm always amazed, I'm like, Who are all these people buying these tablets, and where are they coming from? I was surprised.
People who want a lot of something for very little. This is absolutely not rocket science; it's not even Economics 101. If you're surprised by this, then you should be absolutely dumbfounded by the masses of flesh hanging outside department stores and malls on Black Friday.

Also, obligatory and with tongue firmly in cheek: Slickdeals.

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Demand is WILD for it. Go outside with your TouchPad and see what happens.
I carry my dual-booted 32GB Touchpad wherever I go. But being a Sr. Developer by trade, I took a hell of a lot of **** from other developers for being a long-time webOS holdout (and webOS developer) with my Pre, Pre 2, and Touchpad after Palm/HP's awesome track record of marketing ineptitude. Most every other mobile and web developer I've come across in the local (giant) development community openly dismisses and/or mocks webOS. It's not all "OMG, look at that beautiful Touchpad!" out there like some people here seem to paint.

Even in general public, people don't exactly go out of their way to comment on my tablet. Most people couldn't manage to give a damn less about it.

It's a tablet. It's not an adorable kitten. It's not the Hope Diamond. It's not a controversial political slogan pinned to my messenger bag meant to garner attention. It's a freakin' tablet, and I get just a little more than creeped out by people who think an electronic device of any kind should get such attention in public. In fact, I'd prefer not to get attention in public when I'm carrying electronics in a major metropolitan area.

Actually, I did get one unsolicited comment while I was dining from a restaurant owner on who noticed my Pre 2 a couple of months back. He told me he'd owned a Pre since the start, but because HP discontinued their hardware and let webOS rot on the vine compared to Android he switched to a Galaxy II S--and then vociferously encouraged me to do the same.

Dude, that was an awkward meal.

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HP's TouchPad is a unique situation, it doesn't matter for the other tablet makers how low they'll go, I doubt it will recreate the popularity that HP has unwittingly managed to achieve.
People want value. Again, this isn't even Economics 101 we're talking here. You slash an electronics product in a generally high-demand form factor by 80%, and people buy in regardless of what's on it. It could have been Galaxy Tabs or even RIM Playbooks. Keep in mind that most firesale buyers didn't buy Touchpads for webOS; they bought it because it was a $99-$149 tablet from a top-tier manufacturer that normally retailed at iPad prices.

The half-dozen or so people I know that were fortunate enough to buy one did so on the promise that CyanogenMod was coming to the platform. Most still use webOS sparingly and love the UX, but 90%+ of their time's spent in Android to get the apps they want and, in several cases, they use the Touchpad with CM7 (while waiting for ICS) to augment the experience they get with their Android-powered smartphones without blowing $500 on a Samsung Galaxy Tab 2.

Last edited by independent1; 12/13/2011 at 09:26 AM.
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Old 12/13/2011, 09:20 AM   #24 (permalink)
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HP's TouchPad is a unique situation, it doesn't matter for the other tablet makers how low they'll go, I doubt it will recreate the popularity that HP has unwittingly managed to achieve.
The Amazon Fire surpassed it in many a week of sales? Two weeks?
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Old 12/13/2011, 09:31 AM   #25 (permalink)
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Nifty??

-- Sent from my Palm Pre3 using Forums
are you hating on my use of the word nifty?!?!
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Old 12/13/2011, 11:06 AM   #26 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Keanu_ View Post
Android's doing it. And with all their efforts, HP still managed to snag the #2 spot. I mean, how did that happen?

#2 is almost #1.
Not really - not by about 17 million units! Bear in mind WebOS sold 204,000 units via retail in that period and the combined android total was a couple of million (off the top of my head). They were higher than one android retailer, samsung not the combined total - if we class Amazon Fire as an Android tablet by year unit, they will be third and trailing by many millions of units.
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Old 12/13/2011, 11:46 AM   #27 (permalink)
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But they never handled operating systems before, so they couldn't have known what would happen, all they ever made was hardware. But now that it's open sourc- I will forgive them.
That's not quite correct. HP does a lot more than what you see in Best Buy. They've had HP-UX for their Unix workstations and servers since about 1984. They may not have had a consumer oriented OS before but they've certainly done software for quite some time. (HP-UX - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)
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Old 12/13/2011, 12:58 PM   #28 (permalink)
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A year of committed-ness to the TouchPad and it would have been #1. It would've been worth their billion dollar investment.
They were losing over $200 per Touchpad by selling it for $99. Selling it for that much over a year would sink even HP. If the Galaxy 10.1 would suddenly sell for $99 it would be the number one selling tablet in the world.
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Old 12/13/2011, 03:29 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Keanu_ View Post
But not so fast, a good chunk of those sales were not the $99 price.

I bet about a good 46% of the firesale pads were actually sold at a $300 price.

You have to remember, it was up to the retailers to push the $99 price. And many retailers, simply wouldn't do it.

TheNerds.net never sold a single $99 HP TouchPad. But their $300 stock was one of the first to sell out.

I think a good marketing strategy would have been a $300 main price, and several mini firesales. That's what their strategy basically turned into by the end of it.

And like I said, demand is still flourishing. It's on FIRE. That firesale was lame insanity, and the worldwide demand for it was just stunning.
Leo was too busy dismantling Palm to look at the big picture.
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Old 12/13/2011, 04:23 PM   #30 (permalink)
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regarding the OP:

i think it depends on what constitutes dead. And i don't really have an answer. I only have my opinion.

Regardless, my general comment is i don't think you'll see a single brand new piece of hardware with webos as it's primary OS within the next year. I think by and large 100% of webos will be hobbyist, altering the code to run on some existing device. And that in and of itself will limit the appeal of webos to the much smaller amount of people that are comfortable doing such things. I do think time idle while sorting out open source issues hurts the platform in the sense that there's not any devices coming out but not as much as the past. I'm also curious as to how HP's decision basically to abandon webos on phones will affect the direction. Does that mean only the touchpad code is open sourced. Does that mean only mean that most of their support will be aimed at tablet os at the expense of the phone os. I have no interest in webos on tablets and don't own a tablet so that situation is a little weird. regardless whether it's dead or not or will be dead it's not exactly on the tips of consumers tongues right now so it is what it is.
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Old 12/13/2011, 04:58 PM   #31 (permalink)
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And you've been one of the hardest critics of the Touchpad (although mostly of webOS itself). Although give you that webOS wasn't ready for prime time when Touchpad launched, I think this has been the general trend with this device.
My impressions are based on really short experience with TP. I haven't tried to open some more demanding web pages, to use it enough to feel app gap... Point is, when Touchpad arrived, and HP announced they ordered 3 mill devices for q3 and q4, I knew they expected sales in millions of units, and Touchpad's software and hardware wasn't good enough to deliver such high expectations. I was always saying that Touchpad's sales was better than sales of any Android tablet, but in some small percentage which was not even near HP's dreams about number two place in the game.
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Old 12/13/2011, 05:26 PM   #32 (permalink)
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My impressions are based on really short experience with TP. I haven't tried to open some more demanding web pages, to use it enough to feel app gap... Point is, when Touchpad arrived, and HP announced they ordered 3 mill devices for q3 and q4, I knew they expected sales in millions of units, and Touchpad's software and hardware wasn't good enough to deliver such high expectations. I was always saying that Touchpad's sales was better than sales of any Android tablet, but in some small percentage which was not even near HP's dreams about number two place in the game.

That was an absurd assumption on their part, frankly. The Touchpad is good enough to get traction, but not to be such a success. I also think it's a shame what happened to the Pre3. It's an awesome proposition as a mid-range device (and it's price was going to be mid-range too), so I think it would have sell. But I also think that Apotheker's plan was to kill webOS since the begining, so no matter how well they would have sell.
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