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What is the Open Source timescale?
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Old 12/10/2011, 03:15 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Here's a question - When is WebOS going Open Source - we know they have to rewrite code to remove all of the licensed elements before they do but have HP given any timescale for when this will happen?
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Old 12/10/2011, 03:44 AM   #2 (permalink)
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We are going to need to give them time to be able to answer questions like that. Until today, only upper management types were in the know about what decisions were being made.

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Old 12/10/2011, 03:50 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Here's a question - When is WebOS going Open Source - we know they have to rewrite code to remove all of the licensed elements before they do but have HP given any timescale for when this will happen?
they have not given a timeframe yet, i suspect that it will start coming to light in the next few weeks/months...

hopefully they work hand in hand with one of the best homebrew community i've seen for a device in a long time in webos-internals as well as other very successful opensource projects and foundations such as ubuntu, redhat, mozilla for guidance..

they have a really snug little install base with people who have phones as well as all the people buying 'firesale' touchpads, its not super huge but its nothing that can be ignored, hp could really play this extremely right by getting a solid opensource community going and keep it very tight (organized) to avoid the fragmentation that other devices/os's have had as well as use their size to help leverage some larger companies to help out..

i got a developer touchpad a few weeks ago and i love it, i took it into the bank where my girlfriend works the day i got it and everyone there was like 'oh cool!' so i showed them some of the basic stuff and how it works and all of them were like 'its so slick! how much did it cost?' so i told them 150$ and they were blown away 'can you get me a couple for my daughters?' etc from all of the people there, so i explained to them that it has just been a developer sale and a firesale for the devices and they are basically done with the hardware so are just selling off remaining ones, to which they said 'if you can get any more let us know'.

they didn't care at all about the lifepsan of the hardware, or all the apps, they saw what they were interested in with a few minutes of me showing them what i had on mine, facebook, email, viewing webpages, watching videos, listening to music, pictures synced from my photobucket, facebook etc, ebook reading which was WAY more than enough for them to be willing to shell out 150$ for one.

every firesale that they have had so far has sold out like crazy... its not going to change, and every sale they have puts TONS of new devices into hands of people who honestly might not have ever even gotten a tablet pc (at least not for a few more years), none of the ladies at the bank would have considered even 300$ for a tablet at the moment let alone an ipad priced one, and i can guarantee you if i showed them an android tablet that was a couple hundred dollars they wouldn't have been impressed at all.. they would have been lost in the ui.

anyway.. sorry for the rant that ended up a bit offtopic

what hp has been doing tho with the firesale is getting product into peoples hands. have i sideloaded android? sure..
have i sideloaded linux into a card? sure..
do i continue to use android on my touchpad? not really.. not unless its something i very specifically need that i can't do in linux or webos.. i think that given a bit of time if the opensource community can get their hands on the right parts and work quickly webos might turn into something pretty cool, there is a lot of hype/popularity right now involving tablet computing, even ubuntu is working on 'going mobile'
i guess we will see in the next few months how it starts to pan out
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Old 12/10/2011, 04:17 AM   #4 (permalink)
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I see on twitter, Rod is estimating that it will be three months at least for enyo and longer for anything else.
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Old 12/10/2011, 04:30 AM   #5 (permalink)
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I see on twitter, Rod is estimating that it will be three months at least for enyo and longer for anything else.
sounds like a pretty solid number...
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Old 12/10/2011, 05:04 AM   #6 (permalink)
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At this point, we must care about who's joining to the project. I don't think you can't expect it to be done in 2012, but I think the user community efforts must be pointed to OEMs, and make pressure on them to join the project, and make devices.

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Old 12/10/2011, 05:18 AM   #7 (permalink)
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At this point, we must care about who's joining to the project. I don't think you can't expect it to be done in 2012, but I think the user community efforts must be pointed to OEMs, and make pressure on them to join the project, and make devices.

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Right - Open source software isn't something I spend an awful lot of time researching but from the little I do know, those things live or dead from strong leadership and some sense of common direction - otherwise, you just end up with small tribes and lots of in-fighting about what should be done. Without OEMs committed to making hardware, hard to grow the base (which according to Meg is currently around 750,000 units).

I wonder if the first movers are going to be the Chinese companies turning out generic tablets and people like Corby (sp?) or do they tend to concentrate on low margin/volume so will stick to android?
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Old 12/10/2011, 08:47 AM   #8 (permalink)
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With a company open sourcing code that used to be proprietray the main delay seems to be always the time it takes the lawyers to go through it all and check for liability.

On the plus side - large parts of webos where always open source to begin with (kernel, webkit, couchdb, nodejs, etc ...

Anyway it will be several months until the first source dumps and might easily take a year for all of it to be available.



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Old 12/10/2011, 08:50 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Right, plus rewrites to remove stuff that can't be used.

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Old 12/10/2011, 10:44 AM   #10 (permalink)
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At this point, we must care about who's joining to the project. I don't think you can't expect it to be done in 2012, but I think the user community efforts must be pointed to OEMs, and make pressure on them to join the project, and make devices.

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yes that and a separate project to investigate porting android apps.
I would like to see hp and webos-internals write a business plan and then give the community direction. Webos-internals has been the most clear and consistent and trustworthy of either palm or hp. I don't think it was good start that hp set up a call with rod and then was a no show--they need way better communication.

edit: Enyo open source sounds like a better way to go than porting Android apps. That way all apps written in Enyo could be used across platforms nicely.

Last edited by bluenote; 12/11/2011 at 09:23 AM.
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Old 12/10/2011, 10:45 AM   #11 (permalink)
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I'd guess a year.
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Old 12/10/2011, 02:05 PM   #12 (permalink)
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I would also guess a year, but not much longer than that. Alot of WebOS' structure is already open source, and for all we know HP might have been working on this for a month by now.

Also, I don't think HP is going to make it simple simple, where they just throw a file at developers. They will probably make it available via a developer account, and have a set of instructions/drivers etc.. This is probably costing them money, so perhaps they are making their engineers work double time.
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Old 12/10/2011, 02:37 PM   #13 (permalink)
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I think they will need to do as quickly as possible in order for it to be successful(beyond a small hobbyist platform). If it does indeed wind up taking a year or longer it might be to late by then as Android and the rest of the mobile world will likely have advanced dramatically by then.

Sadly this will again leave WebOS at a major disadvantage. First developer interest, particularly major mobile players, will be hard to come by if they already have better already established platform options in place. Secondly the current hardware will be on its last legs by then and it will be hard to get manufactures to make new devices because they wont want to take the risk involved when they see little interest from the mainstream consumer market and lack of multiple big name developers behind it.
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Old 12/10/2011, 02:47 PM   #14 (permalink)
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I'm guessing a year until it becomes available. Then who knows how long after that before better apps can be made and that OS can be modified to catch up to the OSes out at that time period
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Old 12/10/2011, 02:51 PM   #15 (permalink)
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that's why i think it will be more successful with an asian company utilizing webos... with so many people untapped and maybe a many still new to tech, a market like that will be more forgiving of a new phone with rough edges and give time to refine... like the 2g iphone was when it came out. in western world, people will not give that kind of time for a new phone... it better go head to head with the best right now.

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I think they will need to do as quickly as possible in order for it to be successful(beyond a small hobbyist platform). If it does indeed wind up taking a year or longer it might be to late by then as Android and the rest of the mobile world will likely have advanced dramatically by then.

Sadly this will again leave WebOS at a major disadvantage. First developer interest, particularly major mobile players, will be hard to come by if they already have better already established platform options in place. Secondly the current hardware will be on its last legs by then and it will be hard to get manufactures to make new devices because they wont want to take the risk involved when they see little interest from the mainstream consumer market and lack of multiple big name developers behind it.
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Old 12/10/2011, 02:54 PM   #16 (permalink)
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i mentioned baidu or meizu in other posts... but lenovo could do it too... a webos phone for asian markets only first and then as it gets refined brining out to western markets.

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Old 12/10/2011, 02:56 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Sadly this will again leave WebOS at a major disadvantage. First developer interest, particularly major mobile players, will be hard to come by if they already have better already established platform options in place. Secondly the current hardware will be on its last legs by then and it will be hard to get manufactures to make new devices because they wont want to take the risk involved when they see little interest from the mainstream consumer market and lack of multiple big name developers behind it.
Correct. Developer interest has already been hard to come by throughout the life of the Pre to now. This doesn't make it any better.

This move is basically Whitman cutting their losses, retaining webOS since nobody would even buy the thing, and outsourcing development so they can focus elsewhere.
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Old 12/10/2011, 02:59 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Speaking of competition is there much interest being shown in Tizen?
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Old 12/10/2011, 10:22 PM   #19 (permalink)
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dont count on webOS OSS to be meaningful if no hardware manufacturer pick it up soon.

Although I am glad this happened, it won't be a quick change.

Netscape open sourced mozilla in 1998, they waited years without a fruit. Firefox version 1 was released in 2004.

and this smartphone market is much much much more competitive. It can't wait for 6 years. It has to happen in 18 months, and a hardware support has to be at least announced in next 6 months.

Without hardware makers behind it, it will just be a community product that will move along slowly with little chance to expand. But, at least, its not dead.

I see possibility with HTC, it is sliding in the android market behind samsung, maybe expand their business is a good idea for them.
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Old 12/11/2011, 05:16 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Netscape open sourced mozilla in 1998, they waited years without a fruit. Firefox version 1 was released in 2004.

and this smartphone market is much much much more competitive. It can't wait for 6 years. It has to happen in 18 months, and a hardware support has to be at least announced in next 6 months.

I see possibility with HTC, it is sliding in the android market behind samsung, maybe expand their business is a good idea for them.
And the only reason that Firefox took off was because Internet Explorer was horrible. There was a need and an opening for Mozilla. There's really no "need" for another mobile OS. If it takes a year for the source code to be released then won't it already be behind everyone else?

Windows 8 will be around then, IOS 6 should be out with new features, and "Jellybeans?" will probably be close to ready for Android. WebOS is on par with IOS 4 and current Android OS(Gingerbread and Honeycomb) but all three of those will continue with their increase in apps available, putting WebOS further behind and the OS will also fall behind. I just don't see how an OS can catch up when it was already way behind the top 2 in apps and features and it'll be stagnant in growth and innovation until it's released.

Also, HTC already has an 2nd mobile OS they develop phones for, Windows 7. HTC also, according to the last numbers released, sell 50% more Android phones than Samsung had in the last quarter. I think you'd have to replace HTC with Samsung if you want it to be correct.

Last edited by kalel33; 12/11/2011 at 05:21 AM.
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