webOS Nation Forums >  webOS Discussion >  Open webOS General Discussion > What will I get in my Touchpad after few months (days?) of open source?
What will I get in my Touchpad after few months (days?) of open source?
View Poll Results: webOS open source benefits
Revamped look n feel to webOS 38 40.43%
More new apps & famous ones 52 55.32%
No traction 23 24.47%
Fragmented 8 8.51%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 94. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 12/14/2011, 05:13 AM   #21 (permalink)
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What will I get in my Touchpad after few months (days?) of open source?
A lump of coal, obviously.

* edit: My gf says you'll get PENGUINS. .. BIGGER PENGUINS.
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Old 12/14/2011, 05:54 AM   #22 (permalink)
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a lump of coal, obviously.

* edit: My gf says you'll get penguins. .. Bigger penguins.
penguins!! I am want!
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Old 12/14/2011, 01:57 PM   #23 (permalink)
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I like how your poll put "Fragmentation" down last as if it is a bad thing. That is why webOS will never succeed in an open source world.

Fragmentation is a GOOD THING!! If webOS becomes fragmented it is because people are using it the way that open sourcing intended! It means that manufacturers are picking it up and adding what they feel are competitive advantages to it in order woo people to their implementation.

Anyone who honestly things that webOS can stay on the straight and narrow with fragmentation and multiple manufacturers is completely out of touch with reality.

"Fragmentation Envy" -- what every webOS user should have....
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Old 12/14/2011, 03:22 PM   #24 (permalink)
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There will obviously be some form of fragmentation. To say that every future webOS product that comes out is going to be the same is mythical thinking.

The biggest thing that needs to be addressed is core functionality. All webOS devices running 3.x need to have the same core functionality and not be fragmented in that sense.

There will be fragmentation, it just depends on what level it comes.
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Old 01/09/2012, 02:32 AM   #25 (permalink)
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You could get all 4. Who's to say you don't end up with a "revamped look n feel to webOS" that has "more new apps & famous ones" but gets "no traction" resulting in different WebOS versions thus having a platform that is "fragmented?"
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Old 08/22/2012, 05:06 PM   #26 (permalink)
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You could also port WebOS to an iPad 2/3 by the time it's available.
people have attempt to port android to the iphone which was a success but future generations of apple device has to much security to port a operating system on to it. That's why the iPhone 3gs doesn't have android on it
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Old 08/22/2012, 11:19 PM   #27 (permalink)
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people have attempt to port android to the iphone which was a success but future generations of apple device has to much security to port a operating system on to it. That's why the iPhone 3gs doesn't have android on it
When you say porting to the iPhone was a success, you are, of course, referring to the iPhone 1. And you're correct; no successful full port of Android has been made to any iPhone/iPad since and why webOS has zero chance of ever living on Apple iOS devices.

Same goes for any future Windows RT/x86 tablets and WP7/8 phones. The bootloader is locked down hard, which means zero chance of porting webOS in that direction either.

Last I checked, Blackberry does the same thing but I can't imagine anyone wasting their time trying to port in to Blackberry hardware.

Basically, the only shot is Android, and only on those devices that don't have a locked bootloader. I still question how current and future Android phones with, say, NFC or other hardware webOS has never had a clue about (much less any apps to support them) would ever find support in webOS. Seems like a potential downgrade in features and hardware components in some cases just to run Open webOS.
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Old 08/22/2012, 11:30 PM   #28 (permalink)
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You could say that webOS actually pioneered NFC with the tap-to-share.

-- Sent from my TouchPad using Communities
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Old 08/23/2012, 02:47 AM   #29 (permalink)
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Old 08/23/2012, 07:56 AM   #30 (permalink)
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awesomeness may ensue.
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Old 08/23/2012, 10:48 AM   #31 (permalink)
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I still question how current and future Android phones with, say, NFC or other hardware webOS has never had a clue about (much less any apps to support them) would ever find support in webOS. Seems like a potential downgrade in features and hardware components in some cases just to run Open webOS.
What other features and hardware components besides NFC? Some of us have no need or use for NFC, let alone don't want it.

I can't think of any other hardware component, and in response to NFC, if folks are able to port open source software to a specific hardware, there is no reason NFC can't be enabled as well.
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Old 08/23/2012, 10:21 PM   #32 (permalink)
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You could say that webOS actually pioneered NFC with the tap-to-share.

-- Sent from my TouchPad using Communities
Mmm, not quite. TTS isn't even NFC in terms of using the actual NFC standard everyone else uses. Not even close.

NFC predated Touch-to-Share with a consortium created between industry heavyweights back around 2004 and the first standards created as of 2006.

If we want to go into the mobile space especially, Samsung had NFC baked into their Galaxy S a year (2010) before webOS announced Touch-to-Share (2011).

Even if webOS had succeeded, Touch-to-Share would never have been very successful given the penetration of the NFC standard in not only the mobile industry, but many, many others that required very-low power secure transaction and information transfer. For instance, a Google Wallet type of transfer using Touch to Share would have literally been impossible given the power requirements Bluetooth requires, while NFC tags initiating transactions with phones and other devices can exist powerless until accessed by a compliant device.

It was a nice little thing webOS had, but disappointing that they didn't recognize that true NFC--a technology perfectly capable of doing the same and much, much more than TTS ever could--was already running circles around it.

So no, again, TTS didn't really pioneer anything.

Last edited by dignitary; 08/23/2012 at 10:27 PM.
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Old 08/23/2012, 10:27 PM   #33 (permalink)
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You could say that webOS actually pioneered NFC with the tap-to-share.

-- Sent from my TouchPad using Communities
Mmm...no. Not at all, unless you ignore the history of NFC. TTS isn't even NFC in the context of the actual NFC standards everyone else uses. NFC isn't a generic term meant for any two devices that communicate at close proximity; it's a set of standards that very particularly spell out how it works.

First, NFC clearly predated TTS with a consortium created between industry heavyweights back around 2004 and the first standards created as of 2006. TTS does not follow these standards.

Second, and even more relevant, Samsung had NFC baked into their Galaxy S a year (2010) ready to go to market before webOS even announced TTS (2011).

Even if webOS had succeeded, TTS would never have been successful outside of its webOS sphere given the penetration of the NFC standard in not only the mobile industry, but many, many others that required very-low power secure transaction and information transfer.

NFC can be found in implementations including freight, advertising, inventory management, information sharing, mobile transactions, and high-security access control--and many dozens more. As an example of where TTS would end up falling short in the real world, a Google Wallet type of transfer using TTS would have literally been impossible given the power requirements Bluetooth requires. NFC tags can exist without power and remain accessable by a compliant device like a smartphone, just like your typical RFID card (NFC's dad, more or less). TTS cannot be used without power by its very nature of requiring Bluetooth to conduct the transfer.

A webOS device also can't interact with NFC tags because, again, 1) TTS isn't NFC, and 2) anything TTS interacts with must be powered.

TTS was interesting enough in its (extremely narrow) implementation, but completely disappointing that they didn't recognize that true NFC--a technology perfectly capable of doing everything TTS could and much, much more--was already running circles around it. NFC won before TTS was even born.

So no, again, TTS didn't really pioneer anything. If anything, TTS demonstrated a complete and utter disregard of where the rest of technology as a whole was going in that realm. And even then, they still couldn't even get it pushed out to all the webOS devices they advertised as supporting TTS.

Last edited by dignitary; 08/23/2012 at 11:25 PM.
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Old 08/23/2012, 11:08 PM   #34 (permalink)
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What other features and hardware components besides NFC? Some of us have no need or use for NFC, let alone don't want it.

I can't think of any other hardware component, and in response to NFC, if folks are able to port open source software to a specific hardware, there is no reason NFC can't be enabled as well.
How about 4G LTE radios, another aspect that webOS has never seen? That's a whole other bag of worms that's going to require some serious work; even CM9, when loaded on most Android devices, cripples 4G support completely. Why would one think that the same wouldn't happen with Open webOS loaded onto a native Android device when the CM9 gang can't even restore that critical functionality? Not to mention that, at least on Sprint, 4G is a $10 charge per month. That's like charging $120 a year to a Sprint user who can no longer use that functionality just so they can run Open webOS (or CM9) on their device.

How about HDMI video out, as yet another example? It's been infinitely useful in hotel rooms where I can just jack in my Android phone with Netflix into the hotel flatscreen and avoid the charges, or share movies and slideshows of my kid easily with relatives at their home or play Android games on a larger screen using Bluetooth or even USB controllers.

I mean, Android's so far and wide that if you did a survey of the current landscape, I'm sure you could come up with even more particular components that webOS currently doesn't have any way of accessing, much less any applications developers have created to support them.

(I haven't even gotten into the rabbit hole regarding driver development for all the varied hardware components that webOS supports on its own devices (like cameras, digitizers, etc) but can't talk to on others because the component itself is different.)

That's my point. If I'm going to slap another OS to override the OS originally found on the hardware, it would only make sense to ensure that by doing so I'm not losing functionality in the process.

Lest anyone think CM9's not just as guilty, the camera and compass support is still lacking last I checked, but in terms of overall functionality through the existing Google ecosystem, top-tier applications, and application variety with even growing support, the sting is a much easier to take. Not to mention that I don't have to worry about losing 4G on a device that doesn't even have a cellular radio inside of it.

On webOS, the opposite is true where there are a magnitude fewer apps in the App Catalog--which also faces stagnation and in many recent cases, shrinking--to take away the sting of losing hardware functionality. It's only compounded by the continued developer attrition on the platform, as evidenced most recently by the creator of Tapnote halting development for webOS. http://beckism.com/2012/08/whither-webos/

It all comes down to what price you're willing to pay for a modern smartphone device in order to load an OS that realistically will not support everything the device is capable of, and in some cases you may actually be paying a surcharge for functionality (4G on Sprint, perhaps others) you can't even take advantage of just to do it.

Last edited by dignitary; 08/23/2012 at 11:44 PM.
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Old 08/24/2012, 03:49 AM   #35 (permalink)
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Leaving aside the fact (as Dignity points) out NFC pre-dates TTS, on an implementation level they aren't even on the same planet - how long as TTS existed? Three years? And what can you do with it? Exchange a link between two TTS devices - big deal.

My house and office are seeded with NFC tags and it allows me to automate all sorts of things (Tablet goes to silent, turns off data connection, sets alarm in the bedroom), moreover as more and more NFC phones are released the opportunities for both frictionless sharing between individuals and clever consumer orientated apps will multiply.
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Old 08/24/2012, 07:31 AM   #36 (permalink)
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dignitary,

While you do point out a lot of totally valid points, the actually relevant part is what's missed -- The first widespread NFC capable mobile OS was Android 4.0. And considering how actually rare Android 4.0 is (if I'm not mistaken, the Android ecosystem is still very close to 2/3rd running 2.x), and you have to exclude the number of devices that actually run Android 4.0, that do NOT have NFC hardware in them (many of them), you pretty much are down to -- NFC is practically non-existant. And other than attempting to hack other NFC devices such as your Mobil speedpass cards, and other dedicated NFC devices, it's not actually being used for anything (at least, as far as I've heard -- which should get me a pass on that statement, as much as any politician would )

NFC has existed for longer than TTS, but was not available, for the most part at a consumer level until after webOS devices were killed. They do, to some degree, serve the same purpose. It is TTS that allows your TouchPad to communicate with your touchstones, and therefore know where it is charging at, and it is your TTS that allows your Pre3 and TouchPad to tap to share. Certainly, it never reached it's potential, as the devices were killed. But, it is most definitely a precursor to the NFC implementation that came out some months later in Android 4.0.

Add on top of that, the security issues that Android inevitably will bring to the NFC table, and we're in for a world of "***" if it ever really does take off.
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Old 08/24/2012, 07:55 AM   #37 (permalink)
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Add on top of that, the security issues that Android inevitably will bring to the NFC table, and we're in for a world of "***" if it ever really does take off.
Yeah, I guess that nobody actually has any devices to do anything with TTS (well unless they want to send links endless to themselves) is pretty good security.
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Old 08/24/2012, 11:40 AM   #38 (permalink)
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That was supposed to be a world of w-t-f.

In any case, my original point, is that NFC and TTS are basically different ways to achieve similar things. So, all this worrying about if webOS will support NFC is mystifying to me.

First, why wouldn't it, if the hardware's there, and has driver support?
Second, is there any software that does anything with it at all? I don't know, I don't think any of my devices support it hardware wise, so I've never really looked.
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