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Ok, Open Sourced, what are our top priorities/features?
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Old 12/11/2011, 01:00 AM   #61 (permalink)
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Graphics accelerated scrolling. I think this would add a lot to the general UI experience of webOS. Case in point: Switching apps...smooth. Launcher scrolling...smooth. Webpage scrolling...jitterjitterjitter. Email scrolling...jitterjitterjitter. I want this feature, and I'm sure many others do too.
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Old 12/11/2011, 02:24 AM   #62 (permalink)
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With HP out of the hardware game (for at least a year anyway), and webOS to be open sourced, I'm wondering if any company who does decide to make phones/tablets, will also produce a touchstone. It's not necessary, but the touchstone is kind of a big deal to me. Sure there is powermat, but it's a universal solution, thus less integrated.

-edit- sorry, it's a little off topic.
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Old 12/11/2011, 02:25 AM   #63 (permalink)
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techlover, have you updated to 3.0.4? I haven't seen a bit of a problem with any scrollers ever since, except in my own apps, where I tend to massively overload them while i'm doing data testing

Pretty sure that hardware assist is on on the scrollers on all or nearly all the stock apps.
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Old 12/11/2011, 02:34 AM   #64 (permalink)
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techlover, have you updated to 3.0.4? I haven't seen a bit of a problem with any scrollers ever since, except in my own apps, where I tend to massively overload them while i'm doing data testing

Pretty sure that hardware assist is on on the scrollers on all or nearly all the stock apps.
Updated the day it came out. I am not saying it is a problem, just that it could be improved. As an owner of both an iPod Touch and an HP TouchPad, I can definitively say that webOS's scrolling is nowhere near as smooth as iOS's. Don't get me wrong, I like webOS a lot, but the proof of webOS's ability to get to iOS's smoothness is evident throughout the system. Just look at the scrolling between cards. Then look at scrolling up and down a webpage. Then scroll in the launcher, then scroll in an email. I have read that both the launcher and card view are graphics accelerated, but apps are not. Granted, I know that there are homebrew patches like Buttah but I do not like to tinker with the stock system that much and I have read that those patches still do not smooth it out to the level of iOS or even Android. Also, you can tell by flicking the webpage. The flick is usually smoother than dragging it. Anyhow, it is just a thought.
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Old 12/11/2011, 03:14 AM   #65 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by woodmaster View Post
The Dalvik should be priority IMO, then I'd remove Android from my Touchpad.
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Originally Posted by rmausser View Post
-porting android app framework (run android apps as cards)
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Originally Posted by VisceralMonkey View Post
OK, for a serious response this time? Dalvik.
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I second that Dalvik is FIRST priority. When Android apps run on WebOS, thats when REAL traction comes. People, developers and tweakers alike, will come to WebOS with a more open mind and heart.
Something like that would probably be the final nail in the webOS' coffin. the ability to run Windows software is exactly what killed IBM's OS/2, because developers didn't develop for OS/2.
I think that our top priority is porting Enyo to all other existing platforms as soon as the code is available and try to make it the standard JS library. This way, every app developed in Enyo would run in webOS without modifications and without changing anything in webOS, and developers would develop in webOS standards (not Android).
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Old 12/11/2011, 03:48 AM   #66 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by ka1 View Post
Ok, now that WebOS is open-sourced, what features do we want?

How about:
1. Improved boot time/optimization?
2. JVM (Opera, Android, etc.)
3. Re-add support for Classic? Is the ROM.bin file allowed?
4. Bring back TABS!
we need to cover the basics first:
1) Make the OS truly worldwide, e.g. The phone part can be set to any country
2) maybe out of our hands, but no restrictions on app.cat. So anyone can buy apps.
3) backup & restore *any* data on the phone, like the user dictionary, messages
4) optimize OS use of hardware
5) boot time to be optimized
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Old 12/11/2011, 08:51 AM   #67 (permalink)
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Old 12/11/2011, 09:11 AM   #68 (permalink)
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Something like that would probably be the final nail in the webOS' coffin. the ability to run Windows software is exactly what killed IBM's OS/2, because developers didn't develop for OS/2.
I think that our top priority is porting Enyo to all other existing platforms as soon as the code is available and try to make it the standard JS library. This way, every app developed in Enyo would run in webOS without modifications and without changing anything in webOS, and developers would develop in webOS standards (not Android).
I hear what you are saying, no one will be developing FOR webOS. They'll still be developing for Android.

The sad reality is: Quality Apps = Mobile success. And yes webOS has SOME quality apps. But one can hardly compare webOS and Android apps and even put them in the same league. So to my mind, getting some quality useful apps running as native to the OS as possible is priority. The obvious target is Android apps. RIM knows it, Microsoft is struggling to learn it, webOS had better realize it quick. Without quality apps, chance of success = zero.

Swiping cards back and forth is great for a few weeks, but after that you need something else to do with a device. Without apps, you've got nothing. Everyone I know who got a Touchpad during the fire sale (6 people) has put Android on it, or intends to. And I'm not talking about smartphone geeks here - these are soccer moms and retirees. The truth is, the device is simply more useful with Android on it, and that comes down to one thing.....apps.

Get Android apps running. It just has to happen.
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Old 12/11/2011, 10:31 AM   #69 (permalink)
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I hear what you are saying, no one will be developing FOR webOS. They'll still be developing for Android.

The sad reality is: Quality Apps = Mobile success. And yes webOS has SOME quality apps. But one can hardly compare webOS and Android apps and even put them in the same league. So to my mind, getting some quality useful apps running as native to the OS as possible is priority. The obvious target is Android apps. RIM knows it, Microsoft is struggling to learn it, webOS had better realize it quick. Without quality apps, chance of success = zero.

Swiping cards back and forth is great for a few weeks, but after that you need something else to do with a device. Without apps, you've got nothing. Everyone I know who got a Touchpad during the fire sale (6 people) has put Android on it, or intends to. And I'm not talking about smartphone geeks here - these are soccer moms and retirees. The truth is, the device is simply more useful with Android on it, and that comes down to one thing.....apps.

Get Android apps running. It just has to happen.
webOS is not just cards or synergy, it's a whole new ideology of user and developer experience. Of course, at the beginning no one would start developing for a practically dead platform, but if we succeed in making Enyo the standard JS library for mobile development, and I'm talking from a developer point of view (although I'm not objective because I'm a webOS fan), developers would develop apps for iOS and Android in Enyo (which would also work on webOS) and would see how easy is to develop with Enyo and they would start developing FOR webOS and submitting for iOS and Android as well (that is assuming the open-source project won't be an absolute failure).

I know that eventually there will be a Dalvik port for webOS because the users will push developers to do so, but I do hope that it won't be integrated into the open-source project because developers are already developing in Enyo for the TouchPad and we should encourage webOS development, not helping killing it.

Take RIM for example. I don't know any developer that developed an app for the PlayBook, because it can run Android and BBOS apps, so no one wants to bother developing new apps (especially with its very small user base). Yes, the PlayBook OS has potential, but the sales show that it's dead, because it nedds more than just thousands of apps and good OS - it needs its own apps that have been developed especially for the OS's user interface.
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Last edited by isagar2004; 12/11/2011 at 10:37 AM.
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Old 12/11/2011, 12:43 PM   #70 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by techlover10 View Post
Updated the day it came out. I am not saying it is a problem, just that it could be improved. As an owner of both an iPod Touch and an HP TouchPad, I can definitively say that webOS's scrolling is nowhere near as smooth as iOS's. Don't get me wrong, I like webOS a lot, but the proof of webOS's ability to get to iOS's smoothness is evident throughout the system. Just look at the scrolling between cards. Then look at scrolling up and down a webpage. Then scroll in the launcher, then scroll in an email. I have read that both the launcher and card view are graphics accelerated, but apps are not. Granted, I know that there are homebrew patches like Buttah but I do not like to tinker with the stock system that much and I have read that those patches still do not smooth it out to the level of iOS or even Android. Also, you can tell by flicking the webpage. The flick is usually smoother than dragging it. Anyhow, it is just a thought.
This. Sometimes the drag scrolling on my Pre3s browser glitches and gets stuck on a sort of animated drag mode where the page animates behind your finger as you drag. It's much smoother and if sped up should definitely be the default for all scrollers.
The user interface needs to be as smooth and fancy-looking as iOS'. It needs that wow factor. It also needs modifications to the animation framework to prevent the ui from hanging when loading stuff, not super-nice.

Last edited by ShiftyAxel; 12/11/2011 at 12:48 PM.
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Old 12/11/2011, 04:46 PM   #71 (permalink)
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Many of us would want to be able to record phone calls,
first it was mic API an then legal stuff, now that it is open source i don't think we still have a problem,

Btw hi everyone this is my first post, a convert from Nokia Symbian to pre3
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Old 12/11/2011, 07:45 PM   #72 (permalink)
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It also needs better html5 support. Like being able to interact with html5 objects the same way you double tap to interact with Flash objects. Oh, and scroll bars.
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Old 12/11/2011, 09:57 PM   #73 (permalink)
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I haven't had time to read through the whole pile of posts, but my vote: Libre Office! Especially if the BT KB can be used to its full advantage, but that's a "nice to have" after LO has been ported.
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Old 12/11/2011, 10:17 PM   #74 (permalink)
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webOS is not just cards or synergy, it's a whole new ideology of user and developer experience. Of course, at the beginning no one would start developing for a practically dead platform, but if we succeed in making Enyo the standard JS library for mobile development, and I'm talking from a developer point of view (although I'm not objective because I'm a webOS fan), developers would develop apps for iOS and Android in Enyo (which would also work on webOS) and would see how easy is to develop with Enyo and they would start developing FOR webOS and submitting for iOS and Android as well (that is assuming the open-source project won't be an absolute failure).

I know that eventually there will be a Dalvik port for webOS because the users will push developers to do so, but I do hope that it won't be integrated into the open-source project because developers are already developing in Enyo for the TouchPad and we should encourage webOS development, not helping killing it.

Take RIM for example. I don't know any developer that developed an app for the PlayBook, because it can run Android and BBOS apps, so no one wants to bother developing new apps (especially with its very small user base). Yes, the PlayBook OS has potential, but the sales show that it's dead, because it nedds more than just thousands of apps and good OS - it needs its own apps that have been developed especially for the OS's user interface.
You make good sense. But..

Your vision mkes me sad. Not because your incorrect in your logic but because if you are correct, then webos is already dead. If native apps are the only ones worth a damn to the platform, then it's stuck in a catch 22. No one wants to buy or sell webos without tons of great apps, and no one wants to develop for a platform without a large user base. RIM played the only card they had left. I don't see webos having any better hand to play. A development framework is great, but your starting point is much better if you have most of the android Market to work from. One factor in the catch 22 has to change or nothing gets off the ground. We can't make developers use enyo or develop for webos, so it make sense to me that an early goal of webos should be to make android apps run as perfectly as possible. That is within our (the open source community) control. What app developers work on is not.
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Old 12/11/2011, 11:46 PM   #75 (permalink)
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Something like that would probably be the final nail in the webOS' coffin. the ability to run Windows software is exactly what killed IBM's OS/2, because developers didn't develop for OS/2.
I think that our top priority is porting Enyo to all other existing platforms as soon as the code is available and try to make it the standard JS library. This way, every app developed in Enyo would run in webOS without modifications and without changing anything in webOS, and developers would develop in webOS standards (not Android).
I've been thinking about this actually for the past couple of days... and its really difficult for me to either agree with or disagree with completely....

At first I was thinking about it and was like 'well if android apps run in cards that would be great', but then I started thinking about it like you were and kind of agreed with that as well.

Then I started thinking about linux and windows, people run linux (more and more people are switching to linux from windows every day it seems) but you can run a LOT of windows programs in linux under wine, and that doesn't stop people from running linux or developing for linux it actually encourages people to run linux BECAUSE they can run those things in linux as well.

As far as developing for webos tho... that may be another story in which you could be correct...

Is there a website out there for suggesting applications made in webos? (i don't mean forums, but a proper site dedicated to suggesting applications) The reason I ask is because now that I have a touchpad I want to start developing some applications for it, and possibly improve on some of the applications that are already out there that I use by making better versions of them, but I am more than willing to try to make applications based on requests if people have ios or android apps (or even just ideas) that they would like to see be made. Feel to private message me or whatever.
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Old 12/12/2011, 02:43 AM   #76 (permalink)
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Everything on this list should be added to the first post and then stickied. i think some admins should make this happen.
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Old 12/12/2011, 07:04 AM   #77 (permalink)
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When reading this thread I get the idea a lot of people don't really know what open sourcing webOS means... As if it is the holy grail to finally the success webOS has always needed... No it isn't.

Many of the requests in this thread can simply be delivered while webOS is still closed source, like all the app suggestions. These apps will NOT automagically appear when open sourcing webOS. The crux is developer support, which webOS always lacked, even MORE so when open sourcing! Face it, open sourcing webOS will NOT attract many more developers. I actually think it will be even harder, because now the few devoted webOS devs will not only have to build apps, but also contribute to the webOS and enyo development.

Still in my dreamworld and if we had enough manpower and knowledge and if HP also open sources the native apps on top of enyo (like the calendar, mail, messaging, etc.). My priority list would be:

Top prio:
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Originally Posted by neville View Post
Update the webkit engine
Even when HP is already working on it, I hope this can be accellerated. This is essential. The webbrowser is just unusable. I still need to fall back on a "real" webbrowser from time to time to get stuff done.

Other stuff:
- Extend/improve API functionality to support apps that are now still impossible
- Extend synergy. Android is miles ahead here already.
- Improve core webOS to speed up etc.
- And really I would also like to see some Dalvik support. We will not win many more developers. Some hybrid webOS Android OS seems the best option to me.
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Old 12/12/2011, 07:52 AM   #78 (permalink)
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I actually think it will be even harder, because now the few devoted webOS devs will not only have to build apps, but also contribute to the webOS and enyo development.
The general vision people has about Open Source is that it's done by and for private guys on their spare time. That's not that way.

The goal of opensource is to distribute the development efforts in a way that everyone can make use of the entire project. That includes individuals, but also companies. Individuals canīt make evolve webOS as fast as the current environment moves. They can share good ideas, and make it's implementation, but without the backup of large companies with several devs ready to deploy those ideas fastly, the opensource development isn't as fast as needed.

That's why this must be one of the top priorities.
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Old 12/12/2011, 08:28 AM   #79 (permalink)
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I know, but I believe webOS WON'T attract the needed companies, even with all your good intentions in the referenced thread.
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Old 12/12/2011, 08:53 AM   #80 (permalink)
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I know, but I believe webOS WON'T attract the needed companies, even with all your good intentions in the referenced thread.
Then sorry, but webOS will become a nostalgic and hobbyist OS, like those OS/2 or Amiga clones.

It's not a matter of good/bad intentions. It's a fact. Remember my words: if nobody joins and launches webOS devices, HP isn't going to do it, no matter what they've said.

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Well first I want to set expectations about time frame. This is going to take some time. If you look back at the history of Mozilla or Red Hat — these things did not become giant platforms over night. This in my view is a 4 or 5 year timeframe, and I want to make sure we really communicate that. And then I think the measures of success — and I'm not going to give you numbers here — but the measures of success are going to be: how many developers are writing for this platform? Have there been other hardware manufacturers who have signed on and built devices, whether they be tablets or devices of the future or smartphones? And ultimately, the ability of developers to make money.
HP has adopted a "me too" strategy with webOS hardware, and "me too" means that someone has done it before. If you think that HP is going to throw money forever on webOS, you're clearly wrong: probably in the next 12-24 months if nobody joins, HP will be done with webOS, and HP webOS division will cease to exist (or will be reduced to the minimum possible size, and that's one guy renewing the domain). You will have some 3rd party franken device with webOS on it, but that will be all you'll can expect from webOS.

I don't think it's so hard to try to make know HTC, Samsung, LG, Sony that there is a webOS market (2.2% of US smartphone market, an entire point over WP7) where they can throw a phone and will sell. Maybe not too much, but more than some of their models.
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