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Old 12/10/2011, 11:14 AM   #121 (permalink)
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I don't find it exciting... I would have preferred one buyer and let them go with it. Open source... I feel webos will get fragmented and changed so much it wont look like it does now. Guess well just have to wait... But I don't see any phones out for another year... That's a long time.
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Old 12/10/2011, 11:30 AM   #122 (permalink)
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None of that changes the fact that in the last 90 days there were several ODM's interested in webOS (including HTC and Amazon) but they didn't like HP's asking price. Now they get it for FREE. Why wouldn't they use something for free that they were willing to pay at least something for in the last 90 days.
answer: patents and phone companies. Open source without patent protection would open up companies to lawsuit. Until that is part of the package, no company will consider it.

THEN

You have to get phone companies to support it and buy phones. Good luck there! They have all been badly burned by webOS, and are unlikely to invest in it. In this country, USA, few people buy phones full price on open market. They get them as part of a contract.

So my beloved webOS phones are good now, but unlikely to ever be available from sprint, ATT, Verizon, etc.

And while I like the idea of an HTC running webOS, it still wouldn't have the major medical apps I need, as all the medical companies jumped the sinking ship. I think the # of physicians still using webOS phones can be counted on 1 hand. A darn shame, as we helped drive Palm to respectability and profitability by making it a tool with medical apps, not just a glorified notebook.

I see webOS as the next Ubuntu; interesting, and fun to install as a dual-boot for us enthusiasts, but irrelevant otherwise.

As a dev, my first medical app, Bishop Scores, came out not quite a year ago and has had over 4000 downloads. My second app, EquiAnalgesia came out a month or so ago, and has had 175. I think most users follow phones they can use, not tablets they can play on.

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Old 12/10/2011, 11:47 AM   #123 (permalink)
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No one willing to buy webos at their asking... So they open source it instead of letting it die and fade away with no way to recover their investment... Gain interest that way until a company that has played with it find interest and offer HP enough money to get it of webos.

Remember, they just spent 12 billon on autonomy... The company is going in a completely different direction... They are all in which 2012 will probably make clearer.

They'll dump webos like IBM eventually got rid of think pad to lenovo.
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Old 12/10/2011, 12:05 PM   #124 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by k4ever View Post
At least webOS has a bigger head start on Android in this market. WebOS 3.x and Enyo were designed for tablets from the start. If we could just get an Enyo based NetFlix app, we would be one step closer to perfection for most tablet users.


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Here the flip to that - I wonder in 2012/2013 you can launch a mobile OS that is basically tablet-only (I don't think phones are a realistic proposition in the short-term because of the complexity of carrier adoption)?

It will be interesting to find out.
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Old 12/10/2011, 12:16 PM   #125 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by donm527 View Post
I don't find it exciting... I would have preferred one buyer and let them go with it. Open source... I feel webos will get fragmented and changed so much it wont look like it does now. Guess well just have to wait... But I don't see any phones out for another year... That's a long time.
I share this apprehension. I don't want to see webOS on 1,000 devices and app compatibility become a nightmare. I just want it on a handful of really fantastic devices. Also, I would hate to see webOS covered up by something like Sense or Blur.
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Old 12/10/2011, 12:34 PM   #126 (permalink)
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They'll dump webos like IBM eventually got rid of think pad to lenovo.
On the other hand, IBM is a big supporter of Linux. I hope for a similar relationship between HP and WebOS.
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Old 12/10/2011, 01:52 PM   #127 (permalink)
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answer: patents and phone companies. Open source without patent protection would open up companies to lawsuit. Until that is part of the package, no company will consider it.

THEN

You have to get phone companies to support it and buy phones. Good luck there! They have all been badly burned by webOS, and are unlikely to invest in it. In this country, USA, few people buy phones full price on open market. They get them as part of a contract.

So my beloved webOS phones are good now, but unlikely to ever be available from sprint, ATT, Verizon, etc.

And while I like the idea of an HTC running webOS, it still wouldn't have the major medical apps I need, as all the medical companies jumped the sinking ship. I think the # of physicians still using webOS phones can be counted on 1 hand. A darn shame, as we helped drive Palm to respectability and profitability by making it a tool with medical apps, not just a glorified notebook.

I see webOS as the next Ubuntu; interesting, and fun to install as a dual-boot for us enthusiasts, but irrelevant otherwise.

As a dev, my first medical app, Bishop Scores, came out not quite a year ago and has had over 4000 downloads. My second app, EquiAnalgesia came out a month or so ago, and has had 175. I think most users follow phones they can use, not tablets they can play on.

-- Sent from my HP TouchPad using Communities
First off HP has already stated that they are going to hold onto the patents and use them to defend webOS users from the likes of apple and microsoft.

Secondly there is no risk to the phone companies if a manufacturer decides to back webOS and put out devices. They don't have to do anything except provide the phone services. A smart company could make a killing by just putting out affordable phones using the webOS software.

If you can put out a $200 or $99 tablet don't tell me it can't be done with a phone as well.

I know carrier agreements aren't that cut and dry but they could be.

Let's just say for arguments sake that HTC or LG decided to test the waters with an entry level webOS phone. They could go to Sprint or AT&T or whoever and say hey we have this new phone we would like to sell we will give you x amount of phones to stock your stores with and you collect a percentage off of each phone sold in return.
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Old 12/10/2011, 01:57 PM   #128 (permalink)
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People are afraid of skinning WebOS and fragmentation, but you have to remember that WebOSInternals will most likely do alot of the ports to different devices, and I can almost guarantee they won't change any visual aspects of it. They will keep it stock, clean.
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Old 12/10/2011, 02:41 PM   #129 (permalink)
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People are afraid of skinning WebOS and fragmentation, but you have to remember that WebOSInternals will most likely do alot of the ports to different devices, and I can almost guarantee they won't change any visual aspects of it. They will keep it stock, clean.

but like in the android community, people will take those ports and skin them... plus you will have the OEMs skinning.
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Old 12/10/2011, 06:04 PM   #130 (permalink)
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Unless HP can prevent device manufacturers and networks from smearing feces all over the basic OS like they do with Android this is pretty much the worst thing that could have happened. It doesn't matter that some companies make good Android devices, the thousands of terrible ones drag the reputation of the OS into the gutter. And the open source aspect means you get companies pulling **** like installing crapware you can't delete. Not to mention open source developers aren't well reknowned for their UI design, coherance and usability which is one of the remaining draws of WebOS. There are already people on this forum asking for the UI to be stripped out and replaced with something android like.

WebOS will never compete with Android's head start in the bottom of the barrel device market and unless HP pulls off a miracle with the steering group it'll lose any advantage it had in consistancy and polish.
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Old 12/10/2011, 10:01 PM   #131 (permalink)
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WebOS will never compete with Android's head start in the bottom of the barrel device market...
So in your eyes Apple is the top of the market and everything else is "bottom of the barrel"? LOL. There are more Android devices sold than Apple devices and personally I haven't liked ANYTHING Apple has made since the Apple IIc. Their devices are no better than some of the top competitor devices. Then you also have to consider that Apple's motto seems to be: "This isn't Burger King, you get it OUR way or you don't get the S.O.B at all." I just cannot support a company like that.
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Old 12/11/2011, 12:44 AM   #132 (permalink)
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er, Maverickz, that doesn't make sense at all. The last numbers I heard, was that there were more than 4 -times- the number of iPod/iPhone/iPad devices than there are Android devices out there in the world.

There are a ****-ton of junk devices at the bottom of the market, at the $59, $99, $129, $149 price in tablets, that are running like Android 1.6 or 2.1 or something like that, and are just complete and total junk when compared to any of the devices that we talk about on a regular basis around here.
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Old 12/11/2011, 01:02 AM   #133 (permalink)
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er, Maverickz, that doesn't make sense at all. The last numbers I heard, was that there were more than 4 -times- the number of iPod/iPhone/iPad devices than there are Android devices out there in the world.

There are a ****-ton of junk devices at the bottom of the market, at the $59, $99, $129, $149 price in tablets, that are running like Android 1.6 or 2.1 or something like that, and are just complete and total junk when compared to any of the devices that we talk about on a regular basis around here.
That must have been well over a year ago. As of April 2011 Apple only had more total devices sold IF you counted the iPOD MP3 Player. As THIS article points out, it doesn't make a lot of sense to compare market share including MP3 players for one group when the other group doesn't really compete in that market. That would be like comparing computer hardware sold between Apple and HP but allowing HP to also count servers. Removing iPODs from the equation, counting phones and tablets Android had a slight edge in April and was gaining market share FASTER than Apple.

As of October Apple CEO Tim Cook shared the linked chart showing that Android was on 43.7% of Smartphones while iOS was only on 27.3% of smartphones. This of course does NOT include tablets. This is a little more fair to Apple since we are not counting those $50 Android tablets but you can see Android has gained a HUGE share of the pie.

Now I will agree that there are some truly horrible tablets out there with Android, as you mentioned running very outdated versions and with barely enough hardware to turn on. I am not sure if those count toward anything. I would hope people are smart enough to know you aren't going to get any kind of quality from an electronic computing device purchased for $50 at your local gas station.
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Old 12/11/2011, 01:15 AM   #134 (permalink)
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The Best Buy associate was like, "The Kindle Fire and the iPad have games" and the woman said, "I don't care about games, I want something I can do work on- just Word and PDF's."
She needed a netbook. Tablets are great and all but even with a windows tablet I wouldn't want to do "work" on one. To really be productive and work with a lot of documents you will probably need a really good physical keyboard which defeats the purpose of having a tablet.
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Old 12/11/2011, 02:28 AM   #135 (permalink)
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Maverickz,
I think you should probably include tablets there -- there's 11 million+ iPads out there. And I'd be reasonably certain that the Android numbers include their tablets.

Again, though, I may be off. I don't really watch the markets, I just absorb news from the interwebz.
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Old 12/11/2011, 02:33 AM   #136 (permalink)
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Maverickz,
I think you should probably include tablets there -- there's 11 million+ iPads out there. And I'd be reasonably certain that the Android numbers include their tablets.

Again, though, I may be off. I don't really watch the markets, I just absorb news from the interwebz.
The April numbers did include tablets with Android in the lead and gaining market share.
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Old 12/11/2011, 04:42 AM   #137 (permalink)
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So in your eyes Apple is the top of the market and everything else is "bottom of the barrel"? LOL. There are more Android devices sold than Apple devices and personally I haven't liked ANYTHING Apple has made since the Apple IIc. Their devices are no better than some of the top competitor devices. Then you also have to consider that Apple's motto seems to be: "This isn't Burger King, you get it OUR way or you don't get the S.O.B at all." I just cannot support a company like that.
No, part of the reason I own a Pre 3 is I feel that Palm/HP managed to find a good midpoint between the freedom of Android and the coherance of iOS. They were happy for you to modify your device if you were an enthusiast but they also provided a walled garden for the rest of the world who don't want or need to. Google's biggest mistake was letting those $50 tablets use the Android branding as well as the OS because it reduces the public opinion of the OS. If HP still cares about WebOS they'll limit the branding and patent protection to companies who ship their devices with stock code on hardware of a minimum standard.
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Old 12/11/2011, 04:47 AM   #138 (permalink)
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No, part of the reason I own a Pre 3 is I feel that Palm/HP managed to find a good midpoint between the freedom of Android and the coherance of iOS. They were happy for you to modify your device if you were an enthusiast but they also provided a walled garden for the rest of the world who don't want or need to. Google's biggest mistake was letting those $50 tablets use the Android branding as well as the OS because it reduces the public opinion of the OS. If HP still cares about WebOS they'll limit the branding and patent protection to companies who ship their devices with stock code on hardware of a minimum standard.
I think that is why HP is setting up the counsel to control those very aspects. We'll see I guess.
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Old 12/11/2011, 05:04 AM   #139 (permalink)
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I think that is why HP is setting up the counsel to control those very aspects. We'll see I guess.
This is where the politics comes in - If Sony (for example) comes in and says "We want to do WebOS but we want to do it this way, take it or leave it" - HP isn't negotiating from a position of strength, so it will be interesting to see what leverage they have in reality regardless of what this counsel is suppose to do.

For all the flaws of it's model, Android grew so quickly because Google pretty allows people to do what they like, in the long-term HP might feel the same pressure if they want this to take off.
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Old 12/11/2011, 05:46 AM   #140 (permalink)
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Sony isn't going to be the people trying to run it on 200MHz Pentium 2s with EGA grade touchscreens. (yeah i'm exaggerating.. slightly)
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