Classic after the latest update – what’s going on?

[hdhuntr]

Originally Posted by regnaD kciN

By the way, here's a suggestion for all you demanding that MotionApps fix something they can't physically or legally do: use WebOSDoctor to downgrade your Pres to 1.2.1. You'll lose a bunch of OS enhancements, but Classic will run as it should. If you don't like that solution, maybe you should be demanding Palm fix the problem they, not MotionApps, caused.

I cannot think if a single 'enhancement' from the most recent update...that is, one that I care about.

If Motion Apps can't do anything else, could they not at least use their presumed pull with Palm to give us SOME KIND OF IDEA when they plan to do something?

WE have a SOLUTION but YOU can't HAVE it is just wrong...

Sprint should give us the option of using 1.2.1 since Palm and Motion Apps are clueless. We should not have to try your suggestion which I don't even know is possible.

[DarthRepublican]

Well, if MotionApps can't do anything about this bug until Palm's next webOS update, I would appreciate if they would fix a problem of their own making. I'm speaking of the incredibly annoying full screen dialog which informs me that every single app which I use is not "Classic Certified." I didn't mind it when it was just a small dashboard notification but having a giant splash screen which I have to dismiss by tapping "OK" when I start an app is downright obnoxious. And now that Classic is much slower thanks to the 1.3.1 bug, it really slows down what I am trying to do with my PalmOS apps. I absolutely hate this dialog box and see no real use for it, except perhaps as a misguided attempt by MotionApps to pressure PalmOS developers to get their apps certified. Well, I'm not going to complain to Pimlico or Olivetree or splashdata about this dialog box, I'm complaining to MotionApps. I don't want to be stopped - even for a couple of seconds - from using one app which I paid for by another app which I paid for just because the author of the second app thinks that the author of the first owes them something. I'm sorry if that last sentence didn't make much sense, the splash screen annoys me so much I have trouble discussing it rationally.

[zonyl]

If you don't like that solution, maybe you should be demanding Palm fix the problem they, not MotionApps, caused.

Point of clarification to myself and those that keep claiming this not a MotionApps problem:

Who was responsible for testing the MotionApps Classic application with the newer releases of WebOS?

I would have to think that MA gets pre-release versions of WebOS on a routine basis for testing. Palm may be in the way of getting a fix out the door, but really who's Quality Assurance process is to blame?

[mflauer]

Originally Posted by DarthRepublican

Well, if MotionApps can't do anything about this bug until Palm's next webOS update, I would appreciate if they would fix a problem of their own making. I'm speaking of the incredibly annoying full screen dialog which informs me that every single app which I use is not "Classic Certified." I didn't mind it when it was just a small dashboard notification but having a giant splash screen which I have to dismiss by tapping "OK" when I start an app is downright obnoxious. And now that Classic is much slower thanks to the 1.3.1 bug, it really slows down what I am trying to do with my PalmOS apps. I absolutely hate this dialog box and see no real use for it, .............

Thats a big ditto from me too!

[regnaD kciN]

Originally Posted by zonyl

Who was responsible for testing the MotionApps Classic application with the newer releases of WebOS?

I would have to think that MA gets pre-release versions of WebOS on a routine basis for testing.

Knowing Palm, that may be way too much of an assumption. It wouldn't be surprising if Pre developers got their first look at 1.3.1 when it first showed up on Update.

Besides, if an OS upgrade is supposed to be backwards-compatible, anything that ran under the earlier version should work without modification on the new version.

From what MotionApps have said, any fix has to wait for a WebOS upgrade. Translation: if it was something they could kludge to let their program work under 1.3.1, don't you think they would have done it already? It seems there is a very big, very real problem in 1.3.1 that can't be "worked around" by third-party publishers.

[zonyl]

Originally Posted by regnaD kciN

Knowing Palm, that may be way too much of an assumption. It wouldn't be surprising if Pre developers got their first look at 1.3.1 when it first showed up on Update.

Most got it ahead of time. Im sure MotionApps get it even quicker seeing as they are a native app developer. http://www.precentral.net/webos-131-...ect-developers

Besides, if an OS upgrade is supposed to be backwards-compatible, anything that ran under the earlier version should work without modification on the new version.

I have never been at or aware of any company that will trust an OS vendor enough not to test software with newer versions. I wish I could instruct my support group to tell our customers to call Microsoft when our product fails to install under Windows 7. Instead we did what any rational software company does, gets on the early access program with the OS vendor, tests for problems ahead of time and either fixes them or issues a statement regarding compatibility by retail release.

Its a little bit different though when your users are forced to upgrade to newer versions of OS's. Cant say that I have experienced that joy yet and feel some compassion for MA.

From what MotionApps have said, any fix has to wait for a WebOS upgrade. Translation: if it was something they could kludge to let their program work under 1.3.1, don't you think they would have done it already? It seems there is a very big, very real problem in 1.3.1 that can't be "worked around" by third-party publishers.

All I am trying to point out that if you engage in a development partnership with a company that you know releases are going to be at the mercy of someone else's schedule, you do what you can to ensure your releases work well.

Im not expecting MA to catch every bug that comes along, but to solely point the blame at Palm for such a major issue seems unfair.

[situveux1]

Originally Posted by regnaD kciN

...which could have done more damage to your Palm. Don't you know the key combination for doing a proper soft reset? (It's orange key-sym-R.) By the way, since you obviously know this forum, you should have known about how WebOS broke Classic long ago. Why activate an app you know is already broken.

No, I didn't know about the reset, so I guess thanks. And I didn't know about this forum either until MA sent me here. I'm sure you remember me saying:

Originally Posted by situveux1

And of course, when I contact support, they send me to this forum. A lot of good that does me!

So while I could be just as nasty to you about your reading skills as you were to me about my typing skills, I'll choose instead to understand that you are probably just passionate about the subject and simply overlooked what I had written.

Originally Posted by regnaD kciN

Why is it that so many here only want classic to run some pharmacy program or another? It would seem to imply a very narrow market for Classic.

The reason is many of us get free software use from our employer or school, but it will only run on palm OS, not web OS. I see no reason to go and buy an outdated Palm for over $100 when I have a perfectly awesome Palm already that can do what I need with a $30 app. The other option is to buy the software myself for $175 and put it on an iPod or iPhone. Again, very expensive. So I guess that is a very narrow market, but it's also a very dependable market. Of course, if it doesn't work it's no market at all.

Originally Posted by regnaD kciN

That's "lo and behold." It always amuses me to read irate comments by someone who doesn't seem to bother getting their English right. It reminds me of the famous photo of the protester with the sign "Get a brain, morans!"

Again, I could make some really nasty comment about your reading skills, but I'm sure it was an oversight on your part, just as I sometimes make typing errors.

Originally Posted by regnaD kciN

As far as I know, there's no difference between "the trial app" and the activated one. The problem with WebOS 1.3.1, as manifested in Classic, tends to be intermittent failures. (I can get it to run perfectly most of the time, but then it will crash on startup or HotSync one time or another.) BTW, if you only need one app, it seems you could load it via USB rather than HotSync.

Well, as far as I know, this is a problem that seems to manifest itself in different ways, causing different problems at different times for all users. So I'm glad it's only intermittent for you, but to assume someone shouldn't have any problems simply because you don't know of any difference between the trial and paid version is just that; an assumption. The trial version worked fine for me but I couldn't get a hotsync to complete once I unlocked the app. I tried 20 different times to hotsync and it froze every time, as well as failing to load via USB five different times.

Originally Posted by regnaD kciN

Yes, MotionApps -- storm Palm HQ, and force them at gunpoint to release an update to WebOS right now! Don't you get it? It isn't MotionApps' fault, it's Palm's fault.

Perhaps they should. But as some have pointed out before, since this is an app that came original with the Pre it was clearly a priority for Palm. I would agree that it would make sense they are getting pre-release webOS updates from Palm to ensure their app continues to work correctly. This is an assumption you are not willing to accept, which is fine, but then I'd ask that you not make the assumption that just because your problems are only intermittent that that means everyone else's problems manifest in the same way.

I sympathize that according to them, their business model depends 100% on Palm, but that's the decision they made when they decided to sell this app. As a consumer I shouldn't and can't be held responsible for their poor decisions, whether it be Palm or MA. If I were to buy a computer program that only ran half the time and crashed my system the other half, it would be unacceptable to me no matter who's fault it was.

By saying it's Palm's fault it doesn't work and not MA's (which I think is still in question), you're wanting me to essentially donate $30 to MA out of sympathy. I've done a lot of app donating, but not for apps that don't work. And I'm certainly not going to donate $30 to a company that knows its product isn't working right and yet makes no mention of it on their official website or in their trial app and only acknowledges the problem after you've spent $30. And they have done their business no favors by then sending me to a public forum where, as far as I know, those that keep screaming it's Palm's fault could just as well be MA employees.

The fact that MA doesn't acknowledge a crash problem before purchase is to me enough of a reason to hold them responsible.

[Dr.Grace]

I'd guess that the problem is limited resources, both for Palm and MA. I'm sure they do internal testing of new Classic builds with each new WebOS release (they'd have to as a byproduct of the development), but they don't seem to do enough beta-testing with real-life users. However, since new WebOS versions come out monthly, there wouldn't be too much time for that. I have to say that Classic is working well enough for me, so it's possible that these problems may occur only under specific conditions, which may or may not arise during their in-house testing.

I'm not trying to absolve MA of their responsibility to resolve these problems, just saying that they do not have unlimited resources. Even the homebrew apps sometimes break when new WebOS versions are released, but the developers have the advantage of a larger pool of beta-testers. Moreover, as others have said, developing any kind of emulation software is not a trivial matter.

[justjill3]

to Palm and my app (not to the MotionApp people, themselves)
D@m&'t! I REALLY miss my smooth(er) running Classic. Hurry up, Palm!

[justjill3]

+10

[hdhuntr]

Originally Posted by Dr.Grace

I'd guess that the problem is limited resources, both for Palm and MA. I'm sure they do internal testing of new Classic builds with each new WebOS release.

LOL...It seems that actually not even one person tried it before the last update...

[regnaD kciN]

It has now been four weeks since MotionApps announced "we have a fix!" Still no WebOS update in sight...

[dcIIIxe]

I would feel a _*lot*_ better if Motion Apps would continue to proactively update us on progress and status rather than just continuing to respond to challenges with the same old tired excuse that it's not their fault.

[Classic by MotionApps]

Not much of an update, we're still here waiting for this release to fix Classic.

We do test our app prior to release, for what it's worth, we would never release something not working as intended. But you maybe remember we had a huge issue after 1.1.3 release in July, and almost each time an update goes out, there is something broken. It does not happen because we did not test Classic with the update, but because something happens in the release process itself. We submit a fully functional and tested app, but it comes out broken.

This is not comforting and we are aware of that, but we're trying to work out release process with Palm so that this does not happen again.

Reading this forum we see people trying to understand us, and Palm, and people without understanding (and rightfully so), but the bottom line is that you have a non-working app, and it does not make a difference whose fault it is anymore. We all just want to have a working app. And we hope it will be out soon. No definite date (not because we don’t want to say, but because we do not know it either).

Anyways, hang on, and feel free to contact us if there is anything we can do in the meantime.

[dcIIIxe]

something happens in the release process itself. We submit a fully functional and tested app, but it comes out broken.

That bodes very poorly for Palm — I hope you're breaking down their door to get them to fix this process!

[Dr.Grace]

I don't get this. If something is broken by the release, then why can't people simply use the WebOS doctor to restore their device to pristine condition, then download apps like Classic? This should work perfectly, if what you're saying is correct.

[Dmitri]

I know this makes no sense, but I haven't had a crash or data loss now in weeks! The only things that I can think of that I'm doing differently are: (1) I'm returning to the Palm OS launcher screen frequently now, as evidently that's when DateBk6 data are actually saved (thanks to those who pointed this out!), and (2) closing Classic before I connect to computer in "USB drive" mode. So, I consider myself quite fortunate now; Classic is actually working for me just the way it should! (Long may it last ...)

[jjeffcoat]

I've removed several of my patches in anticipation of 1.3.5 and it seems like the crashes in Classic are a little less frequent, but they are still happening.

[Dick99999]

Originally Posted by Classic by MotionApps

..........We submit a fully functional and tested app, but it comes out broken. .........but the bottom line is that you have a non-working app, and it does not make a difference whose fault it is anymore. ..........

Something else seems broken to me: the concept of the apps store and releaseability. Marketing/sales wise the apps store seems great for the developer. However, if a customer has to wait for a third party (Palm, Apple etc.) to get a bug release, I feel that this marketing advantage comes at my expense: I have a broken app and the direct response capability has been taken out of the equation. So in another way, it does matter who's fault it is: does the concept of the app need updating?

B.t.w as a customer, I always did have multiple app stores at my disposal for my Palms, Treos and others: third parties that sold great applications and had giveaways too. 'All they forgot' was the on-device catalog and buying, automated installations and updates.

Or is it perhaps the case that the app store is necessary to make a profit on selling devices?

[cyberprashant]

my sister's phone which still has classic 2.0.0 runs decently well with 1.3.5webos. anyway to roll back from classic 2.0.1 to 2.0.0?

this may be a non-issue with the imminent release of 1.3.5


UPDATE: Seems to work fine now with 1.3.5webos