Classic - destination or transition?

[RJKinsman]

Forgive me if this has already been covered in forums, but I couldn't seem to find a thread that really covered this topic.

This is my question:

How do you view Classic's role in the WebOS experience:

A) A transitional tool. It fills the gap for applications that are not available on WebOS so that users coming from PalmOS can continue to function. The hope and expectation is that the need for Classic will eventually go away when all functions that we used to use under PalmOS are re-invented in WebOS.

B) Destination -- here to stay. There are some things that I use Classic for that I will never use in WebOS

C) Something else?

[Classic by MotionApps]

Our two cents - addition to B point:
B1) some apps cannot be developed for webOS (due to tech limitations) so Classic is the only way to use them

thanks RJKinsman, this is exactly what we would love to learn about

let the games begin!

[GoGayleGo]

Some developers are declining to make a WebOS version of their app b/c they know Classic is available...that's why I got Classic...essentially for 1) a single app whose developer isn't working on a WebOS version, and 2) to have access to my old PIM data - to be able to keep it separate from my contacts on the Pre (I keep EVERYONE'S data on PalmOS, but only want those folks I contact regularly to show up in the Pre's list, otherwise it becomes too overwhelming).

[davim00]

As long as Classic continues to be develooped and supported, there wiil be developers that will continue to develop for the old platform. If Classic ceases development and support, then the developers of the apps that run on it will be forced to either move over to the new platform or just close up shop altogether. So I think it all depends on Motionapps' intentions down the road. I do believe Classic will be around for a good long while, though. It's very difficult to just shut down the Palm OS cold turkey because it has 15+ years of heavy mainstream use under it.

[Classic by MotionApps]

Originally Posted by davim00

As long as Classic continues to be develooped and supported, there wiil be developers that will continue to develop for the old platform. If Classic ceases development and support, then the developers of the apps that run on it will be forced to either move over to the new platform or just close up shop altogether. So I think it all depends on Motionapps' intentions down the road. I do believe Classic will be around for a good long while, though. It's very difficult to just shut down the Palm OS cold turkey because it has 15+ years of heavy mainstream use under it.

Yes, we do understand Classic as “a platform” and this is how we want to establish it (as well as support it adequately – no question about that on our side).

[Classic by MotionApps]

This is a very interesting and important topic, so we just made it sticky.

As and addition to RJKinsman's question, we would love to hear about what would community expect that MotionApps does for and around Classic to make it a long term solution?

Give us your 2 cents!

[Sharper]

Originally Posted by Classic by MotionApps

This is a very interesting and important topic, so we just made it sticky.

As and addition to RJKinsman's question, we would love to hear about what would community expect that MotionApps does for and around Classic to make it a long term solution?

Give us your 2 cents!

As a longtime former Palm OS user and now a determined and happy Pre user, I've found Classic to be an extremely useful program for many of my old Palm OS apps.

As I've written in another forum and received a response about the difficulty to change Classic's UI (user interface), I hope there can atleast be another option. Perhaps an option that would keep the same UI but have the ability to hide it completely or collapse it when there is no need for it....such as reading, game playing or calulation...therefore, using the 'switch keyboard" option so that only the Pre's keyboard could be utilized. This would give us Classic users and lovers more Pre screen real estate. The abililty to take advantage of the entire screen of the Pre in Classic would make it extremely useful.

Also, as much as I appreciate MotionApps for their hard labor and good work, it would be nice, if possible, to omit the fade-in, fade-out MotionApps when opening Classic....and all

Just my 2 cents....love Classic!

[retrobits]

Originally Posted by Classic by MotionApps

This is a very interesting and important topic, so we just made it sticky.

As and addition to RJKinsman's question, we would love to hear about what would community expect that MotionApps does for and around Classic to make it a long term solution?

Give us your 2 cents!

To me, a long time Palm OS user, Classic is a destination. This is one of the big reasons I purchased a Pre. Sure, I like the web browser and media on the WebOS side, but the PalmOS apps are just as important to me. I am very happy with the functionality of Classic so far and also pleased with the focus that MotionApps is giving this project.

Here is my wantlist:
1. 320x480
2. Better hardware keyboard compatibility - Probably the number one compatibility issue I keep hearing about is hardware key mapping. There are many apps we cannot use due to the hardware keyboard input not being recognized. 320x480 mode (if implemented) should be able to receive input from the hardware keyboard.
3. Finer control of input by tapping. I'm don't know what the best solution is here, but I'm sure we can do better. The old PalmOS screens were designed with a stylus in mind. We need more visual cues to help on accuracy with those small buttons. One thought I had is a mouse pointer that could be moved by screen input and tapped by keyboard or gesture input. Maybe a mode where the input focus can "snap to" a nearby button. There's got to be a way to make this work -- needs some creative UI thought.

[bdhu2001]

Originally posted by retrobits:
. . 3. Finer control of input by tapping. I'm don't know what the best solution is here, but I'm sure we can do better. The old PalmOS screens were designed with a stylus in mind. We need more visual cues to help on accuracy with those small buttons. One thought I had is a mouse pointer that could be moved by screen input and tapped by keyboard or gesture input. Maybe a mode where the input focus can "snap to" a nearby button. There's got to be a way to make this work -- needs some creative UI thought.

I've noticed that the pinch feature for zooming in and out now works and it gives you more real estate so that you can be accurate when tapping. I don't recall that with WebOS 1.1, but it is the case in 1.2 and 1.21

On another note, I can't get Classic to work with all of my SplashID files. It's basically locks up when I tap on it. It says "sorting" and never comes out of it. I know that it's probably because of the number of files that I have, but SplashID and GroupWise sync are the two reasons that I still carry my Treo.

As a wish list, it would also be nice to be able to read books on the full screen (set up for Lifedrive or T50 instead of Treo). To have all that real estate and not be able to use it when reading, sucks.

[mahylo]

For me, as a medical professional, I have relied on Palm OS programs to get me through medical school, residency, and now towards the end of my fellowship and finally practice.

I heavily rely on Skyscape, but there are a myriad of medical programs that were written by individual programmers that will not be replicated for webOS (Palm ECG, etc.). So for me, Classic is both destination and transitional.

Classic is the reason I went with Palm OS. It saved me a lot of money by not having to repurchase a lot of software for a new platform (except for the $30 for Classic).

NOw that HOtsync has been utilized, I will have to see if my programs from Skyscape and Tarascon update via conduits like they used to on my Treo. If they do, Classic is here to stay!

[Khidr]

The only changes I'd like to see would be enabling more hardware support (multitouch inparticular), and as some have mentioned, allowing a true full screen mode, without the virtualized palm controls. If you did those things, and opened it up for development, you'd probably see a ton of new crossover apps, games, and other goodies that need a more native environment.

[TomJ]

Destination vs. Transition is largely out of the hands of Motion Apps, and in the hands of developers of WebOS. If the Palm OS apps we've come to "need" are implemented in WebOS, they'll have an intrinsic advantage, even if they don't exactly match in terms of functionality. This is because they'll be designed with the current hardware, and "cloud computing"/synergy concept in mind, making for a more positive user experience.

As long as Classic is constrained by the "virtual" physical limitations of emulating a Centro, (wasting 1/3 of the screen, trying to address 320x320 pixels with the much lower tap resolution of the Pre's capacitive touch screen), "transition" seems more likely.

But, that's really all that Palm needed out of the deal, isn't it?

Regards,
Tom

[RJKinsman]

Yes, thanks, Tom. I didn't really mean to ask the question from Motion App's standpoint, but I was just curious as to how other users saw Classic. I wanted to know if they saw it the same way I do.

For me personally, as soon as all of the functionality that I'm currently using in Classic is available in WebOS, then I'm done with it, and the sooner the better.

That having been said, I really like the usability improvements in 2.0. Using the gesture area to control the keyboard setting is wonderful. Also, getting rid of the constant notifications (err -- nags) about non-certified apps was much appreciated. And it doesn't seem to crash as much, at least for me. Also, of course, sync is great, although I haven't tried it yet, I'm trusting that it will work, or that Classic will get it to work. I've had two experiences with Motion Apps support, one not so great, the more recent one, pretty good.

So anyway, my reasons for using Classic are:
- Documents To Go. I mostly use it for spreadsheets. I will soon be migrating this function to my iPod Touch. If/when Dataviz finally comes out with this in WebOS, I'll go to that.
- Brainforest and Shadow for checklists (I mostly use Brainforest, but I have one checklist in Shadow). So far, there are no checklists for WebOS, good or bad.
- Clock+ - reminders. I would use Clock+ a lot more if Classic could support the sounds that Clock+ makes. This was a huge disappointment.
- MyBible. (Laridian) I mostly use my iPod Touch for bible reading, simply because the multi-touch navigation is much nicer. But I still have a lot of stuff in MyBible (notes and highlights) that I would like to migrate. I think it will have to be a manual process, so I think it will be quite a while before I give this up.
- TurboPass - passwords. There are some homebrew apps that have this kind of functionality, but I really like TurboPass's integration with the Windows desktop browsers. And, of course, when it comes to passwords, my philosophy is be slow, thoughtful, careful, cautious.
- Memorize! (Laridian) I should be using this one more!

-Roland

[Sharper]

Originally Posted by Classic by MotionApps

This is a very interesting and important topic, so we just made it sticky.

As and addition to RJKinsman's question, we would love to hear about what would community expect that MotionApps does for and around Classic to make it a long term solution?

Give us your 2 cents!

Now that quite a few folks have responded, I'm wondering what is MotionApps response to the multiple request to see a full screen (Pre screen size and not Centro screen size) version of Classic. Is it possible? Is it possible to omit or collaspe the virtual navigation and map it to the keyboard of the Pre? Now we're really talking "long term solution".

[Classic by MotionApps]

Full screen, oh full screen how I need thou…

Fair.

This is our take: if we find a way to develop the option to support full screen as you envision it, this would be a serious job development wise, and serious amount of time would be needed for this.

So the questions MotionApps as Classic developer must ask are:
1. how many of your favs support full screen?
2. do you think that developers of your fav apps would invest time and effort in redesigning their Palm OS apps to take advantage of the full screen – in case they do not so already?
3. how much would you pay for upgrading to Classic version supporting full screen/upgrading Palm OS apps versions supporting full screen

[Sharper]

Originally Posted by Classic by MotionApps

Full screen, oh full screen how I need thou…

Fair.

This is our take: if we find a way to develop the option to support full screen as you envision it, this would be a serious job development wise, and serious amount of time would be needed for this.

So the questions MotionApps as Classic developer must ask are:
1. how many of your favs support full screen?
2. do you think that developers of your fav apps would invest time and effort in redesigning their Palm OS apps to take advantage of the full screen – in case they do not so already?
3. how much would you pay for upgrading to Classic version supporting full screen/upgrading Palm OS apps versions supporting full screen

Thank you MotionApps for your response!
Here is an uneducated response to your posed questions...

1. I fully support the idea of having Classic utilizing the Pre's full screen

2. This one is tricky, since I'm not a Palms OS developer (nor Classic software programer), but here goes. I'm thinking Classic would have to emulate the Palm TX instead since it has a 3.8 in (320 X 480 res) whereas the Pre is 3.1 (320 X 480 res)..allowing the screen to scroll. Classic already has the function to map to the Pre's keyboard to move up/down/left/right/enter to choose. OR...the wonderful developers at Classic would "figure out" a similar solution. I'm thinking that having the option to collaspe the virtual nav or hiding it. Easy said then done...right? Will Palm developers redesign? Probably not, but then again, it's the day of webOS now!

3. I'd pay up to $10 to upgrade if Classic supported the Pre's full screen.

4. You didnt ask but if this couldn't be done, I'd patiently wait for my fav or most important Palm OS to migrate to the Pre or wait for a Pre developer to design a different solution.

5. I hope other Classic users will find, respond & follow this thread.

6. MotionApps folks have been extremely responsive to their end users.

[jp99]

I have Classic, but for me this is more transitional. I never had a Palm device before my Pre, so I don't have the legacy issues many of you do.

When I bought my Pre, I wanted a Bible reader package for it. I have Olive Tree's software on my iPAQ, and decided since native apps would take a while, Classic would fill my need. Unfortunately the navigation buttons are so tiny it renders Olive Tree's software nearly useless, and I was pretty disappointed. I even tried a capacitive stylus (purchased on Amazon) but it's worse than your finger for exact navigation. Thankfully the Simple Bible Web OS homebrew app came along.

That said, with HotSync in 2.0, Classic fills one hole in the Pre - getting a decent task manager and getting my notes from Outlook to my Pre. My iPAQ, sync'd to my Exchange server at work, syncs at home with my Outlook there, and I use HotSync to bring tasks and notes to the Pre under Classic.

I really regard Classic as transitional because these things I use under it are only because I have no viable solution in a native Web OS application. I expect there will be good solutions in the future, and the GUI of the Web OS is better than the Palm OS GUI in Classic - especially since Classic has a smaller useful screen, and the lack of a stylus to address the small button issues. With 15 years behind it, I expect good apps for Palm OS and many of you depend on them; for me, I don't have that and am looking forward to what Web OS looks like (with apps) in 3-5 years. When you combine this with searching on the device and Synergy, there are just too many advantages to Web OS to not use it for everything and cross reference all your data.

But I certainly understand why many of you view Classic as a destination. It makes sense for you.

[zonyl]

So the questions MotionApps as Classic developer must ask are:
1. how many of your favs support full screen?
2. do you think that developers of your fav apps would invest time and effort in redesigning their Palm OS apps to take advantage of the full screen – in case they do not so already?
3. how much would you pay for upgrading to Classic version supporting full screen/upgrading Palm OS apps versions supporting full screen

My 2 cents answering to all three.

The current Mojo API is very limited: Slow, No 2D/3D graphic engine, No advanced audio or recording, No Networking, No File Level access, No pre-existing application base (well very few anyway in the last 3 months). I dont see this dramatically changing anytime soon.

MotionApps classic supports most of those already and if you further support; Better compatibility (video streams), Full screen 320x480, Multi-Touch, Accelerometer, Call management integration, I firmly believe a lot of new and existing PalmOS devs will be attracted to create/expand their apps to suit those features. The Pre has the makings of the ultimate PalmOS platform if we enable the hardware beyond what the centro has.

This would firmly secure MotionApps as a Destination and one that has all of the _best_ apps for Palm Pre, consequently something everyone needs to buy to get them.

[SirWill]

Lack of true full screen 320x480 is the reason I haven't bought Classic yet. Also multi touch and pinch zoom and simply scrolling with pre type scrolling.

[chaspalm]

Originally Posted by bdhu2001

I've noticed that the pinch feature for zooming in and out now works and it gives you more real estate so that you can be accurate when tapping. I don't recall that with WebOS 1.1, but it is the case in 1.2 and 1.21

On another note, I can't get Classic to work with all of my SplashID files. It's basically locks up when I tap on it. It says "sorting" and never comes out of it. I know that it's probably because of the number of files that I have, but SplashID and GroupWise sync are the two reasons that I still carry my Treo.

As a wish list, it would also be nice to be able to read books on the full screen (set up for Lifedrive or T50 instead of Treo). To have all that real estate and not be able to use it when reading, sucks.

Same here with SplashID. Was Able to install a New copy with the Sample categories and data in Classic, but crashed when I tried to sync my own desktop database with it.

No sense in buying the PRE WebOS version of SplashID unless it syncs with my desktop, so I was hoping Classic would do the job

Still working on it

Chas Palm