DateBk6 users - anyone have alarms working?

bitmage · 07/28/2009, 01:47 PM

If you use DateBk6 under Classic, do your alarms play when your Pre is sleeping?

On mine, you have to leave Classic running 24/7 if you want alarms. The 'launch Classic for alarms' option causes Classic to start up when a scheduled alarm arrives, but the sound never plays. In DateBk's alarm manager it sometimes shows as scheduled for the next day, sometimes the alarm just vanishes.

I've been corresponding with MotionApps on this but they cannot reproduce the issue. I've tried hard resets of Classic, uninstall/reinstalls, and a partial wipe of the Pre. Nothing worked.

I could try a WebOsDoc total wipe and rebuild, but before I go that far I'd like to know that someone has it working...

Classic by MotionApps · 07/29/2009, 06:40 AM

Just to support bitmage's request: we've spent quite some time on this, never managed to recreate it to be able to figure out what goes wrong.

If you recreate behavior bitmage reported, report here and include as many details as possible on how it happens.

bitmage · 07/30/2009, 03:44 PM

Ok, to save anyone else the pain...

I used WebOS Doctor to completely wipe my Pre. After a clean install of DateBK6 on the freshly rebooted Pre, alarms still won't play when sleeping.

Off to recreate my bookmarks, re-pair all my Bluetooth devices, reconfigure all my apps...

Classic by MotionApps · 07/31/2009, 05:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bitmage

Ok, to save anyone else the pain...

I used WebOS Doctor to completely wipe my Pre. After a clean install of DateBK6 on the freshly rebooted Pre, alarms still won't play when sleeping.

Off to recreate my bookmarks, re-pair all my Bluetooth devices, reconfigure all my apps...

Ouch.

We're about to follow all the steps you described (in support request you sent in), and will report back on our results if any change compared to previous testing results.

bitmage · 08/06/2009, 06:35 PM

Not looking good here.

MotionApps was finally able to reproduce my issue. Unfortunately, they blamed it on DateBk6's alarm handling.

I contacted Pimlico, he blames it on Classic not fully emulating the Palm.

So, Motionapps is pointing the finger at Pimlico, Pimlico is pointing the finger at Motionapps, and DateBk users are just getting the finger.

This makes 'Classic Certified' a weak approval at best. If an app can be missing major functionality (like alarms in a calendar app) and still be certified, then basically it means "didn't crash our test unit in a quick check".

I still feel this ball is in MotionApps court - if the application runs fine on a real Palm then the author has little incentive to rewrite it for the even smaller market of Classic users. But I'm not holding my breath (or wiping my Pre) anymore.

daveandjen1999 · 08/27/2009, 01:40 AM

Yeah, you're right, the ball is in MotionApp's court. We really need to hear that progress--or at least investigation--is still being made on this and that it's a top priority for motion apps. No disrespect to MotionApps, but DateBk6 is one of the most reliable programs I've ever used on any platform. Had it for 5+ years and on 6 palm devices--number of failed alarms: 0. The problem has to be with the Classic environment. In general, it seems that when a program runs a background task in Classic, Classic will trigger just fine, but the PalmOS program in Classic will fail to execute. I've experienced this with DateBk6, Resco News, & NVBackup.

Classic by MotionApps · 08/27/2009, 08:25 AM

This is an interesting discussion guys, and we really appreciate your insight. From Classic perspective, the point is on playing ball, and that means getting all the functionalities working as you as users need it to work.

Classic is the emulator, a rather complicated concept that can support (emulate) most of the Palm OS functionalities. However, some functionalities are handled in a certain way and cannot be handled (emulated) differently. And in such cases, this is due to a tech “limitation” within emulation concept, something we cannot bypass.

If a particular app uses a “path” supported in Classic to perform certain functionality (such as alarms in this case), then it will work out of the box. But if the app performs this using a different “path”, only developer of the app can implement this adjustment on their side and get it to rely on “path” as supported with Classic. (Not to repeat ourselves, but we have provided documentation and an easy way to do this, to support Palm OS dev community)

For example, the alarms within Calendar (and some other third party apps) will work within Classic, because they rely on functionality that Classic supports. And some apps use different way to play alarms – a way not supported within Classic. Implementing a modification means taking the ball we passed.

There are rules in emulation game, which allow us to go to a court line, but we cannot go across (bypass the limitation), because the game is then lost. So this is when we pass the ball to third party developer.

In any case, we can assure you that we are a fair player, playing for the crowd and not just for the points

daveandjen1999 · 08/29/2009, 11:30 PM

MotionApps--thanks for continuing the sports metaphor, I guess. If this is the case, it is my opinion that DateBk6 should not be classic certified. Otherwise, the label has lost most of its meaning.

Classic by MotionApps · 08/31/2009, 10:14 AM

This is a valid opinion, and it depends on how you understand Certification. The test cases an app must pass to get Classic Certified status are available within Classic Certification Kit (you can download it on our website at Classic for Developers - MotionApps). You can review documentation within if you would like to get an insight in Certification.

Additionally, we changed Certification procedure so that developers manage the whole process on their own (just announced the news at MotionApps: Classic Certification now free and simple as 1-2-3). We believe this will partially address the "concern" you have.

VetDoctor · 09/08/2009, 09:25 PM

If you uncheck the "DB6 handles alarms" box in the alarms menu does it work?

mitchoh1 · 11/22/2009, 07:26 AM

has anyone found a solution to this. i have the same problem with alarms not working if classic is closed...or alarms cause classic to crash.

_jaap_ · 11/23/2009, 09:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Classic by MotionApps

If a particular app uses a “path” supported in Classic to perform certain functionality (such as alarms in this case), then it will work out of the box.

But it is much work if you use your "path" the first time. We just want to help out users who like to run their old PalmOS apps for the time being until there is a WebOS replacement.

The most elementary method to do sound in PalmOS is SndDoCmd. Why not implement this real easy function? Then at least the alarms in some apps would work. Pretty sounds is another story.
Jaap (BellTime dev)

Dmitri · 11/23/2009, 06:39 PM

The alarms in DateBk6 don't work consistently -- even if Classic is running. CESD is aware of the problem and, at least a month or two ago, didn't have any further solutions.

_jaap_ · 11/24/2009, 07:54 AM

I meaned this generally, not just for DateBk6. So I opened a new thread: http://forums.precentral.net/officia...s-working.html

mitchoh1 · 11/25/2009, 11:50 AM

DATEBK SHOULD NOT BE ON THE CERTIFIED LIST UNTIL THIS IS RESOLVED. Like others, the only reason i bought the pre and classic was to continue having functionality of a datebk ... calender and task manager with alarms....no alarms then might as well just use the built in calender and task apps.

mitchoh1 · 01/30/2010, 10:09 AM

is this forum closed...has anyone found a solution?

PREtarted · 01/30/2010, 12:15 PM

still waiting to hear of solution as well.

swieder · 01/30/2010, 12:22 PM

the primary reason for me to buy Classic would be for Datebk6 support. Not have alarms is a big problem. Thanks for saving $30.

swieder · 02/08/2010, 01:43 PM

With the latest update to Classic, v2.1.2 MotionApps claims to have fixed the alarms. Can anyone verify this?

thanks

Dmitri · 02/08/2010, 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by swieder

With the latest update to Classic, v2.1.2 MotionApps claims to have fixed the alarms. Can anyone verify this?

I can verify that it's *not* the case. On the other hand, MA have done a very good job otherwise; I rarely have a crash any more and Classic runs nicely.

07/28/2009, 01:47 PM	#1 (permalink)
bitmage Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 139 Likes Received: 0 Thanks: 4 Thanked 50 Times in 16 Posts	DateBk6 users - anyone have alarms working? If you use DateBk6 under Classic, do your alarms play when your Pre is sleeping? On mine, you have to leave Classic running 24/7 if you want alarms. The 'launch Classic for alarms' option causes Classic to start up when a scheduled alarm arrives, but the sound never plays. In DateBk's alarm manager it sometimes shows as scheduled for the next day, sometimes the alarm just vanishes. I've been corresponding with MotionApps on this but they cannot reproduce the issue. I've tried hard resets of Classic, uninstall/reinstalls, and a partial wipe of the Pre. Nothing worked. I could try a WebOsDoc total wipe and rebuild, but before I go that far I'd like to know that someone has it working... __________________ Palm IIIx-->Palm Vx-->Kyocera 6035-->Kyocera 7135-->Treo 650-->Treo 700p-->Pre
	Liked by

07/29/2009, 06:40 AM	#2 (permalink)
Classic by MotionApps webOS Developer Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 350 Likes Received: 0 Thanks: 162 Thanked 70 Times in 43 Posts	Just to support bitmage's request: we've spent quite some time on this, never managed to recreate it to be able to figure out what goes wrong. If you recreate behavior bitmage reported, report here and include as many details as possible on how it happens.
	Liked by

07/30/2009, 03:44 PM	#3 (permalink)
bitmage Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 139 Likes Received: 0 Thanks: 4 Thanked 50 Times in 16 Posts	Ok, to save anyone else the pain... I used WebOS Doctor to completely wipe my Pre. After a clean install of DateBK6 on the freshly rebooted Pre, alarms still won't play when sleeping. Off to recreate my bookmarks, re-pair all my Bluetooth devices, reconfigure all my apps... __________________ Palm IIIx-->Palm Vx-->Kyocera 6035-->Kyocera 7135-->Treo 650-->Treo 700p-->Pre
	Liked by

08/06/2009, 06:35 PM	#5 (permalink)
bitmage Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 139 Likes Received: 0 Thanks: 4 Thanked 50 Times in 16 Posts	Not looking good here. MotionApps was finally able to reproduce my issue. Unfortunately, they blamed it on DateBk6's alarm handling. I contacted Pimlico, he blames it on Classic not fully emulating the Palm. So, Motionapps is pointing the finger at Pimlico, Pimlico is pointing the finger at Motionapps, and DateBk users are just getting the finger. This makes 'Classic Certified' a weak approval at best. If an app can be missing major functionality (like alarms in a calendar app) and still be certified, then basically it means "didn't crash our test unit in a quick check". I still feel this ball is in MotionApps court - if the application runs fine on a real Palm then the author has little incentive to rewrite it for the even smaller market of Classic users. But I'm not holding my breath (or wiping my Pre) anymore. __________________ Palm IIIx-->Palm Vx-->Kyocera 6035-->Kyocera 7135-->Treo 650-->Treo 700p-->Pre
	Liked by

08/27/2009, 01:40 AM	#6 (permalink)
daveandjen1999 Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 6 Likes Received: 0 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Yeah, you're right, the ball is in MotionApp's court. We really need to hear that progress--or at least investigation--is still being made on this and that it's a top priority for motion apps. No disrespect to MotionApps, but DateBk6 is one of the most reliable programs I've ever used on any platform. Had it for 5+ years and on 6 palm devices--number of failed alarms: 0. The problem has to be with the Classic environment. In general, it seems that when a program runs a background task in Classic, Classic will trigger just fine, but the PalmOS program in Classic will fail to execute. I've experienced this with DateBk6, Resco News, & NVBackup.
	Liked by

08/27/2009, 08:25 AM	#7 (permalink)
Classic by MotionApps webOS Developer Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 350 Likes Received: 0 Thanks: 162 Thanked 70 Times in 43 Posts	This is an interesting discussion guys, and we really appreciate your insight. From Classic perspective, the point is on playing ball, and that means getting all the functionalities working as you as users need it to work. Classic is the emulator, a rather complicated concept that can support (emulate) most of the Palm OS functionalities. However, some functionalities are handled in a certain way and cannot be handled (emulated) differently. And in such cases, this is due to a tech “limitation” within emulation concept, something we cannot bypass. If a particular app uses a “path” supported in Classic to perform certain functionality (such as alarms in this case), then it will work out of the box. But if the app performs this using a different “path”, only developer of the app can implement this adjustment on their side and get it to rely on “path” as supported with Classic. (Not to repeat ourselves, but we have provided documentation and an easy way to do this, to support Palm OS dev community) For example, the alarms within Calendar (and some other third party apps) will work within Classic, because they rely on functionality that Classic supports. And some apps use different way to play alarms – a way not supported within Classic. Implementing a modification means taking the ball we passed. There are rules in emulation game, which allow us to go to a court line, but we cannot go across (bypass the limitation), because the game is then lost. So this is when we pass the ball to third party developer. In any case, we can assure you that we are a fair player, playing for the crowd and not just for the points __________________ Follow us on Twitter Hang out with us on Facebook Stay Tuned with news and updates on our blog
	Liked by

08/29/2009, 11:30 PM	#8 (permalink)
daveandjen1999 Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 6 Likes Received: 0 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	MotionApps--thanks for continuing the sports metaphor, I guess. If this is the case, it is my opinion that DateBk6 should not be classic certified. Otherwise, the label has lost most of its meaning.
	Liked by

08/31/2009, 10:14 AM	#9 (permalink)
Classic by MotionApps webOS Developer Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 350 Likes Received: 0 Thanks: 162 Thanked 70 Times in 43 Posts	This is a valid opinion, and it depends on how you understand Certification. The test cases an app must pass to get Classic Certified status are available within Classic Certification Kit (you can download it on our website at Classic for Developers - MotionApps). You can review documentation within if you would like to get an insight in Certification. Additionally, we changed Certification procedure so that developers manage the whole process on their own (just announced the news at MotionApps: Classic Certification now free and simple as 1-2-3). We believe this will partially address the "concern" you have. __________________ Follow us on Twitter Hang out with us on Facebook Stay Tuned with news and updates on our blog
	Liked by

09/08/2009, 09:25 PM	#10 (permalink)
VetDoctor Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 71 Likes Received: 0 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	If you uncheck the "DB6 handles alarms" box in the alarms menu does it work?
	Liked by

11/22/2009, 07:26 AM	#11 (permalink)
mitchoh1 Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 5 Likes Received: 0 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	has anyone found a solution to this. i have the same problem with alarms not working if classic is closed...or alarms cause classic to crash.
	Liked by

11/23/2009, 06:39 PM	#13 (permalink)
Dmitri Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: United States Posts: 57 Likes Received: 0 Thanks: 21 Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts	The alarms in DateBk6 don't work consistently -- even if Classic is running. CESD is aware of the problem and, at least a month or two ago, didn't have any further solutions.
	Liked by

11/24/2009, 07:54 AM	#14 (permalink)
_jaap_ Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 7 Likes Received: 0 Thanks: 0 Thanked 4 Times in 3 Posts	I meaned this generally, not just for DateBk6. So I opened a new thread: http://forums.precentral.net/officia...s-working.html
	Liked by

11/25/2009, 11:50 AM	#15 (permalink)
mitchoh1 Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 5 Likes Received: 0 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	DATEBK SHOULD NOT BE ON THE CERTIFIED LIST UNTIL THIS IS RESOLVED. Like others, the only reason i bought the pre and classic was to continue having functionality of a datebk ... calender and task manager with alarms....no alarms then might as well just use the built in calender and task apps.
	Liked by

01/30/2010, 10:09 AM	#16 (permalink)
mitchoh1 Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 5 Likes Received: 0 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	is this forum closed...has anyone found a solution?
	Liked by

01/30/2010, 12:15 PM	#17 (permalink)
PREtarted Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 65 Likes Received: 0 Thanks: 8 Thanked 14 Times in 6 Posts	still waiting to hear of solution as well.
	Liked by

01/30/2010, 12:22 PM	#18 (permalink)
swieder Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 1,968 Likes Received: 0 Thanks: 241 Thanked 67 Times in 61 Posts	the primary reason for me to buy Classic would be for Datebk6 support. Not have alarms is a big problem. Thanks for saving $30. __________________ Pilot 5K->Palm IIIc->Tungsten T/T2->Treo 650/680 -> Pre+ (1.4.5 & Uberkernel)
	Liked by

02/08/2010, 01:43 PM	#19 (permalink)
swieder Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 1,968 Likes Received: 0 Thanks: 241 Thanked 67 Times in 61 Posts	With the latest update to Classic, v2.1.2 MotionApps claims to have fixed the alarms. Can anyone verify this? thanks __________________ Pilot 5K->Palm IIIc->Tungsten T/T2->Treo 650/680 -> Pre+ (1.4.5 & Uberkernel)
	Liked by

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