Fixing Healthcare

[Micael]

Originally Posted by zelgo

...yet they want someone to pay when they end up in the hospital with diabetes and other obesity complications because of stupid lifestyle choices--that someone is usually the government.

No, that someone is the taxpayer, or the other people paying into the insurance system, or the donations sponsored agency, or some/all of the above. The Goverment only prints money, or redistributes that which they've taken from others.

The question about raising taxes should be asked another way: Which is better--raising taxes on soft drinks and government financial assistance to your local hospital to take care of you if you need it or no more taxes and no government money to the hospital?

You really like to use that word "government" in front of anything financial, like it's some kind of sugar daddy that holds all the dough you just have to ask for.

But have you stopped and thought about who will be paying the majority of these taxes that will be added to low cost junk foods? You'll essentially be taxing the working poor.

Hang out at your local McDonalds for a few hours and tell us the mean income of it's customers. You might want to think this one through.

Otherwise, of course, no one would be for raising taxes!

Except you.

[Technologic 2]

Originally Posted by Micael

But have you stopped and thought about who will be paying the majority of these taxes that will be added to low cost junk foods? You'll essentially be taxing the working poor.

Hang out at your local McDonalds for a few hours and tell us the mean income of it's customers. You might want to think this one through.

Gee, tax the ones who will be using the services. Isn't that a novel idea. (But, I personally am against using taxes as a whip to control behavior)

[Micael]

Originally Posted by Technologic 2

(But, I personally am against using taxes as a whip to control behavior)

You've just recapped the current healthcare reform bill. There's no "reform" in it. It, in fact, restricts options and raises costs. It's a total sham.

Originally Posted by jmelan

is is disappointing that most americans oppose taxes on soft drinks. increased consumption in the past 20 years correllates well with obesity rates, as well as increasing healthcare costs. i think a little education could go a long way here. the increased tax on tobacco products has proven the power of economics already through decreased smoking rates.

How about this instead. Make people responsible for their own behavior. Stop making others responsible for paying for others healthcare, and you don't have to worry about taxing them.

Why should I be taxed if I want to drink a bottle of coke once in a while, just because some other idiot drinks 10 a day and is 100 pounds over weight?

Education? Is our educational system as is so pathetic that people aren't aware that consuming excessive sugar leads to weight gain? Likewise, as Smoking demonstrates--some people are going to smoke despite being told directly that doing so can kill you.

Here's the easier and more direct option--stop burdening others with the idiotic choices of others. Let them be responsible for their own behavior.

KAM

Hello Again,

We are in desperate need of actual health reform. We are not in need of massive expansion of government programs, which inevitably lead to much higher costs than they predict (and the predictions are already less than stellar).

Congress is pushing this forward, because they've placed so much political capital into it--they cannot "lose" this, so they will cobble together whatever they can, just so it passes, and then try and slip all their dream stuff back in (which will undoubtedly cost the American taxpayer) conference, or through subsequent regulation based on this.

Understand this--they will do whatever they can to get this passed. What it does, or doesn't do--that's not even important to them--its just the smokescreen. We have a government that is TOTALLY motivated by political goals and agendas, and they really don't care who this hurts or helps--its irrelevant.

POLITICS is all this was ever about, and as is normal--the American people will suffer for it. How much longer are we going to allow the government to victimize us?

KAM

[Technologic 2]

Originally Posted by Technologic 2

I personally am against using taxes as a whip to control behavior

Originally Posted by Micael

You've just recapped the current healthcare reform bill. There's no "reform" in it. It, in fact, restricts options and raises costs. It's a total sham.

And that is the main reason they want this passed. They want the power and control of the people. Sure people want healthcare reform (so do I). But, real "reform" doesn't need 2,000 pg bill that the people voting on it don't even understand it all.

[mrgrim800]

just some food for thought guys.... but in that 1000 page long mess that has constitutioal inclarity written all over it, seems to be the requirement of the RFID chip. So we can all be listed in the medical database.... just read this, it says it all.

Required RFID implanted chip
Sec. 2521, Pg. 1000 - The government will establish a National Medical Device Registry. What does a National Medical Device Registry mean?

National Medical Device Registry from H.R. 3200 [Healthcare Bill], pages 1001-1008:

(g)(1) The Secretary shall establish a national medical device registry (in this subsection referred to as the ‘registry’) to facilitate analysis of postmarket safety and outcomes data on each device that— ‘‘(A) is or has been used in or on a patient; ‘‘(B)and is— ‘‘(i) a class III device; or ‘‘(ii) a class II device that is implantable, life-supporting, or life-sustaining.”

Then on page 1004 it describes what the term "data" means in paragraph 1,

section B:
‘‘(B) In this paragraph, the term ‘data’ refers to information respecting a device described in paragraph (1), including claims data, patient survey data, standardized analytic files that allow for the pooling and analysis of data from disparate data environments, electronic health records, and any other data deemed appropriate by the Secretary"

What exactly is a class II device that is implantable? Approved by the FDA, a class II implantable device is an "implantable radio frequency transponder system for patient identification and health information." The purpose of a class II device is to collect data in medical patients such as "claims data, patient survey data, standardized analytic files that allow for the pooling and analysis of data from disparate data environments, electronic health records, and any other data deemed appropriate by the Secretary."

See it for yourself: http://www.fda.gov/downloads/Medical.../ucm072191.pdf

This new law - when fully implemented - provides the framework for making the United States the first nation in the world to require each and every one of its citizens to have implanted in them a radio-frequency identification (RFID) microchip for the purpose of controlling who is, or isn’t, allowed medical care in their country.

Don't believe it? Look it up yourself. Healthcare Bill H.R. 3200: http://waysandmeans.house.gov/media/...CA09001xml.pdf

Pages 1001-1008 "National Medical Device Registry" section.
Page 1006 "to be enacted within 36 months upon passage"
Page 503 "... medical device surveillance"

Why would the government use the word "surveillance" when referring to citizens? The definition of "surveillance" is the monitoring of the behavior, activities, or other changing information, usually of people and often in a secret manner. The root of the word [French] means to "watch over."

In theory, the intent to streamline healthcare and to eliminate fraud via "health chips" seems right. But, to have the world's lone superpower (America, for now) mandate (page 1006) a device to be IMPLANTED is not just scary. It is prophetic!

Chip Linked To Your Bank Account
The prophetic implications of this bill doesn’t stop with a mechanism by which you will be “chipped”. Section 163 of H.R. 3200, allows the government a direct, electronic access to your bank account, which will work in conjunction with an implanted chip.

Page 58 of H.R. 3200 Lines 5 through 15 reads:

(D) enable the real-time (or near real 6 time) determination of an individual’s financial responsibility at the point of service and, to the extent possible, prior to service, including whether the individual is eligible for a specific service with a specific physician at a specific facility, which may include utilization of a machine-readable health plan beneficiary identity detection card; (E) enable, where feasible, near real-time adjudication of claims

What does this mean? It means that the government will give everybody a health ID card that contains a machine readable device (magnetic strip or RFID chip) similar to a credit card. Embedded in this chip or strip containing your Health Identification Number When you visit a medical provider, the medical claims will be adjudicated [processed] while still in the office/facility. The medical providers will be paid in real time. The portion that you owe will be deducted from your bank account, in real time, according to HR 3200.

Notice here, in this part which is at the beginning of the bill, it is carefully worded “which may include utilization of a machine-readable health plan beneficiary identity detection card”. Here we are told that it may be a card. As you have already seen, deeper in the Bill [Sec. 2521 Pg. 1000] what this “may” utilize is clearly spelled out as a “class II device that is implantable”. We can only speculate at this point why the bill is set up this way. Could be a means of disguising the true intentions of chipping all citizens or could be a means of starting with a card for the sake of expedience while the process of chipping citizenry plays out.

H.R. 3200 Health Care Reform Bill - Obama Care links your bank account to U.S. Gov
Video About H.R. 3200 Health Care Reform Bill - Obama Care links your bank account to U.S. Gov! | Encyclopedia.com

***********

Hopefully by now you see what this is coming to. And before anyone discredits me look up the info in the Health Care Reform bill. And come back with quotes, That is if you can understand 1500 pages of jumbled up **** (Constitutional Clarity Please). This is running along nicely and people need to wake up. They will have to shoot me before they can stick a chip in me.

Road Ahead: Healthcare & RFID

[davidra]

Originally Posted by mrgrim800

just some food for thought guys.... but in that 1000 page long mess that has constitutioal inclarity written all over it, seems to be the requirement of the RFID chip. So we can all be listed in the medical database.... just read this, it says it all.

Required RFID implanted chip
Sec. 2521, Pg. 1000 - The government will establish a National Medical Device Registry. What does a National Medical Device Registry mean?

National Medical Device Registry from H.R. 3200 [Healthcare Bill], pages 1001-1008:

(g)(1) The Secretary shall establish a national medical device registry (in this subsection referred to as the ‘registry’) to facilitate analysis of postmarket safety and outcomes data on each device that— ‘‘(A) is or has been used in or on a patient; ‘‘(B)and is— ‘‘(i) a class III device; or ‘‘(ii) a class II device that is implantable, life-supporting, or life-sustaining.”

Then on page 1004 it describes what the term "data" means in paragraph 1,

section B:
‘‘(B) In this paragraph, the term ‘data’ refers to information respecting a device described in paragraph (1), including claims data, patient survey data, standardized analytic files that allow for the pooling and analysis of data from disparate data environments, electronic health records, and any other data deemed appropriate by the Secretary"

What exactly is a class II device that is implantable? Approved by the FDA, a class II implantable device is an "implantable radio frequency transponder system for patient identification and health information." The purpose of a class II device is to collect data in medical patients such as "claims data, patient survey data, standardized analytic files that allow for the pooling and analysis of data from disparate data environments, electronic health records, and any other data deemed appropriate by the Secretary."

See it for yourself: http://www.fda.gov/downloads/Medical.../ucm072191.pdf

This new law - when fully implemented - provides the framework for making the United States the first nation in the world to require each and every one of its citizens to have implanted in them a radio-frequency identification (RFID) microchip for the purpose of controlling who is, or isn’t, allowed medical care in their country.

Don't believe it? Look it up yourself. Healthcare Bill H.R. 3200: http://waysandmeans.house.gov/media/...CA09001xml.pdf

Pages 1001-1008 "National Medical Device Registry" section.
Page 1006 "to be enacted within 36 months upon passage"
Page 503 "... medical device surveillance"

Why would the government use the word "surveillance" when referring to citizens? The definition of "surveillance" is the monitoring of the behavior, activities, or other changing information, usually of people and often in a secret manner. The root of the word [French] means to "watch over."

In theory, the intent to streamline healthcare and to eliminate fraud via "health chips" seems right. But, to have the world's lone superpower (America, for now) mandate (page 1006) a device to be IMPLANTED is not just scary. It is prophetic!

Chip Linked To Your Bank Account
The prophetic implications of this bill doesn’t stop with a mechanism by which you will be “chipped”. Section 163 of H.R. 3200, allows the government a direct, electronic access to your bank account, which will work in conjunction with an implanted chip.

Page 58 of H.R. 3200 Lines 5 through 15 reads:

(D) enable the real-time (or near real 6 time) determination of an individual’s financial responsibility at the point of service and, to the extent possible, prior to service, including whether the individual is eligible for a specific service with a specific physician at a specific facility, which may include utilization of a machine-readable health plan beneficiary identity detection card; (E) enable, where feasible, near real-time adjudication of claims

What does this mean? It means that the government will give everybody a health ID card that contains a machine readable device (magnetic strip or RFID chip) similar to a credit card. Embedded in this chip or strip containing your Health Identification Number When you visit a medical provider, the medical claims will be adjudicated [processed] while still in the office/facility. The medical providers will be paid in real time. The portion that you owe will be deducted from your bank account, in real time, according to HR 3200.

Notice here, in this part which is at the beginning of the bill, it is carefully worded “which may include utilization of a machine-readable health plan beneficiary identity detection card”. Here we are told that it may be a card. As you have already seen, deeper in the Bill [Sec. 2521 Pg. 1000] what this “may” utilize is clearly spelled out as a “class II device that is implantable”. We can only speculate at this point why the bill is set up this way. Could be a means of disguising the true intentions of chipping all citizens or could be a means of starting with a card for the sake of expedience while the process of chipping citizenry plays out.

H.R. 3200 Health Care Reform Bill - Obama Care links your bank account to U.S. Gov
Video About H.R. 3200 Health Care Reform Bill - Obama Care links your bank account to U.S. Gov! | Encyclopedia.com

***********

Hopefully by now you see what this is coming to. And before anyone discredits me look up the info in the Health Care Reform bill. And come back with quotes, That is if you can understand 1500 pages of jumbled up **** (Constitutional Clarity Please). This is running along nicely and people need to wake up. They will have to shoot me before they can stick a chip in me.

Road Ahead: Healthcare & RFID

Hey, guess what? Your idea was ridiculous in the other post you started, and it's still ridiculous in this one. Congrats....wrong twice in such a short period of time.

[Micael]

Originally Posted by mrgrim800

just some food for thought guys.... but in that 1000 page long mess that has constitutioal inclarity written all over it, seems to be the requirement of the RFID chip. So we can all be listed in the medical database.... just read this, it says it all.

Required RFID implanted chip
Sec. 2521, Pg. 1000 - The government will establish a National Medical Device Registry. What does a National Medical Device Registry mean?

National Medical Device Registry from H.R. 3200 [Healthcare Bill], pages 1001-1008:

(g)(1) The Secretary shall establish a national medical device registry (in this subsection referred to as the ‘registry’) to facilitate analysis of postmarket safety and outcomes data on each device that— ‘‘(A) is or has been used in or on a patient; ‘‘(B)and is— ‘‘(i) a class III device; or ‘‘(ii) a class II device that is implantable, life-supporting, or life-sustaining.”.....

I could be wrong, but I think you're making a giant leap here, based on fear and not on logic. Where does it say they are injecting chips in everyone? They're talking about medical devices that are already inserted in us, like pacemakers. It makes sense to track their safety and effectiveness, so they can be improved over time and keep us alive. You post exactly what they mean by "medical devices", and then you go off on a tangent about everyone in the US getting chips? It's the device that has the chip. If you don't need a pacemaker, guess what? No chippee missee.