Destroying Healthcare in America

[clemgrad85]

Americans are almost always hated until we are needed....after all....even Obama thinks we are arrogant.....so whatever.

[Toby]

Here's a hodgepodge of interesting ideas that I'm sure will probably upset everyone with some part of it...

Pull every American troop stationed abroad home. Use the money that we would be spending to finance rebuilding and improving the national highway infrastructure. Put the actual citizens who are unemployed and/or uninsured to work in this program, and thereby provide them with the same benefits as other federal employees. Some can additionally be put to work creating refinery and energy capacity. While we're at it, forcibly open the coasts to drilling to leverage the increased refinery capacity. California's budget problems solved. It'll bring the price of gas down (funny how nobody mentions gas prices being a large part of the economy originally slowing down), which will likely positively impact both the manufacturing and general retail sectors.

[groovy]

Originally Posted by Toby

Here's a hodgepodge of interesting ideas that I'm sure will probably upset everyone with some part of it...

Pull every American troop stationed abroad home. Use the money that we would be spending to finance rebuilding and improving the national highway infrastructure. Put the actual citizens who are unemployed and/or uninsured to work in this program, and thereby provide them with the same benefits as other federal employees. Some can additionally be put to work creating refinery and energy capacity. While we're at it, forcibly open the coasts to drilling to leverage the increased refinery capacity. California's budget problems solved. It'll bring the price of gas down (funny how nobody mentions gas prices being a large part of the economy originally slowing down), which will likely positively impact both the manufacturing and general retail sectors.

Well, I hear you. But, you forgot the part about saving up money for the ultimate re-deployment of troops to areas of the world that have been overrun since our departure. Like it or not, it's a dog-eat-dog world out there. If America is not promoting her own best interest in the rest of the world, someone else will fill the void to promote theirs. How we are promoting our best interest is a different story. But, that we should promote our best interest seems clear to me.

[clemgrad85]

Originally Posted by Toby

Here's a hodgepodge of interesting ideas that I'm sure will probably upset everyone with some part of it...

Pull every American troop stationed abroad home. Use the money that we would be spending to finance rebuilding and improving the national highway infrastructure. Put the actual citizens who are unemployed and/or uninsured to work in this program, and thereby provide them with the same benefits as other federal employees. Some can additionally be put to work creating refinery and energy capacity. While we're at it, forcibly open the coasts to drilling to leverage the increased refinery capacity. California's budget problems solved. It'll bring the price of gas down (funny how nobody mentions gas prices being a large part of the economy originally slowing down), which will likely positively impact both the manufacturing and general retail sectors.

Well....nothing in that really upsets me.....but just ain't gonna happen. I still say the thing that will make the most change in America is to implement term limits for EVERY elected position....and implement the Fair Tax. Of course, neither of those are gonna happen either. Grrrrrrrr.

[Micael]

Originally Posted by Woof

Hmmm I was just thinking about taking my family on a vacation to Australia. Should I expect that we will be hated upon when we get there? If it's just you, could you let us know whereabouts you live so I pick a different spot for our trip. I'd hate to run into you and subject my kids to your hate America attitude.

25 years ago I visited Australia while serving in the US Navy. While there I visited Perth, Freemantle, Melbourne, points in between, etc. As soon as I opened my mouth in any pub, I was identified as a Yank, and couldn't buy myself food or drink from that point forward. They were awesome to me. People offered me rides, women invited me into their homes. These were the sons and daughters for WWII veterans, and they still remembered that we had fought beside them and watched their backs during the war.

It seems now that with the advent of the internet and the hateful rhetoric that soon disseminated, the younger generation in Australia has picked up on all thats printed as negative about America. It's sad. It was a wonderful place once.

Sorry... I digress.... back to healthcare in America.

[Micael]

Originally Posted by groovy

Well, I hear you. But, you forgot the part about saving up money for the ultimate re-deployment of troops to areas of the world that have been overrun since our departure. Like it or not, it's a dog-eat-dog world out there. If America is not promoting her own best interest in the rest of the world, someone else will fill the void to promote theirs. How we are promoting our best interest is a different story. But, that we should promote our best interest seems clear to me.

It's true. Isolationism has its pluses, but as soon as we curl up in a ball, we'll lose market channels like crazy.

[Toby]

Originally Posted by groovy

Well, I hear you. But, you forgot the part about saving up money for the ultimate re-deployment of troops to areas of the world that have been overrun since our departure.

Why would anywhere be overrun? We're the source of all the problems in the world so with our troops gone, global warming will stop, there will be peace in the Middle East, and the economies of the world will be free to right themselves.

[Toby]

Originally Posted by Micael

It's true. Isolationism has its pluses, but as soon as we curl up in a ball, we'll lose market channels like crazy.

My proposal does not equate with isolationism (unless one assumes that our military presence is the only thing that keeps people trading with us).

[groovy]

Originally Posted by Toby

Why would anywhere be overrun? We're the source of all the problems in the world so with our troops gone, global warming will stop, there will be peace in the Middle East, and the economies of the world will be free to right themselves.

What was I thinking???

[groovy]

Originally Posted by clemgrad85

Well....nothing in that really upsets me.....but just ain't gonna happen. I still say the thing that will make the most change in America is to implement term limits for EVERY elected position....and implement the Fair Tax. Of course, neither of those are gonna happen either. Grrrrrrrr.

Californians are trying to get enough signatures to get a measure on the 2010 ballot that, if passed, would make the state legislature part-time. I say it's a good start. But I'm sure that it will be voted down in the best interest of the children and old folks and furry little bunny rabbits.

[clemgrad85]

Originally Posted by groovy

Californians are trying to get enough signatures to get a measure on the 2010 ballot that, if passed, would make the state legislature part-time. I say it's a good start. But I'm sure that it will be voted down in the best interest of the children and old folks and furry little bunny rabbits.

Your "children" comment caused me to laugh. Anytime I'm raising money for my Rotary Club, I always say it's "for the children" (which in many cases it is since we raise money for many local charities that involve children) and it is amazing how people feel they must give for the children....cracks me up. Which is the same for when a government program needs to be passed, you will always hear the politicians try and connect it to helping "the children". I mean, who would vote against something that would help "the children" (not to mention the furry little bunny rabbits). "Well, it's for the children, I guess we need to vote for it."

[JC Strat]

Originally Posted by clemgrad85

Your "children" comment caused me to laugh. Anytime I'm raising money for my Rotary Club, I always say it's "for the children" (which in many cases it is since we raise money for many local charities that involve children) and it is amazing how people feel they must give for the children....cracks me up. Which is the same for when a government program needs to be passed, you will always hear the politicians try and connect it to helping "the children". I mean, who would vote against something that would help "the children" (not to mention the furry little bunny rabbits). "Well, it's for the children, I guess we need to vote for it."

Agreed. Hence the age-old political tactic of local and state politicians who want to raise taxes further, cutting teachers before cutting any of the other thousands of government expenses. "You're hurting the children."

[perception]

Here's how it is. Australians are nice people. I dont hate you guys, i merely cant believe that people think that a free health system where everyone gets taken care of is a bad thing. I dont dislike you guys I dont have anti-american sentiment. However, I just cant believe that because there is so much opposition to the government trying to change the health system and to take some ownership of the problem.

Does anybody actually agree with me that this push for a better health system is actually a push for the greater good and that it will actually help far more people then it will impact on their rights. In Australia we tend not whinge about how bad we have it because most of us know that we have it better than alot of other people.

Give the system a go and if it doesn't work then vote Obama out.

Yes the USA did come to Australia in WW2 even though the only actual damage was done by air from japan. I must say that Australia has attended every major conflict since its federation and that none of them where started by us or imposed a great threat (apart from PNG) to material Australia.

Yes I am aware of the current health reform in Australia. And think that it is exciting that the system ,after more than 30 years, may change for the better.

Look flame me all you want. But why knock a system you haven't even tried. (before i am flamed for that, yes i do have private health insurance and that is because i can afford it and it allows the less fortunate to have greater access to the public system. As a child though my parents couldn't afford private health insurance). I think that you would find that all those countries that have public health systems would say that it should never revert back to an insurance type system.

[Woof]

Originally Posted by perception

Here's how it is. Australians are nice people. I dont hate you guys, i merely cant believe that people think that a free health system where everyone gets taken care of is a bad thing. I dont dislike you guys I dont have anti-american sentiment. However, I just cant believe that because there is so much opposition to the government trying to change the health system and to take some ownership of the problem.

you fake the anti american sentiment very well. You also use the word "free". That i think is a large part of the problem, people thinking the system is free. It's not free, it's paid for by taxing everyone with a certain income level. Since I fall in that proposed income level I have issue with that. I work my behind off to earn the money I make and, call me cold, but I have no desire to pay for someone who doesnt.

Does anybody actually agree with me that this push for a better health system is actually a push for the greater good and that it will actually help far more people then it will impact on their rights. In Australia we tend not whinge about how bad we have it because most of us know that we have it better than alot of other people.

The greater good at what expense? The greater good isnt good if it penalizes the haves in favor of the have nots. Notto mention the folks that have no interest in having health insurance. Why should they be forced to?

Give the system a go and if it doesn't work then vote Obama out.

Youre quite naive i think. You dont restructure a nationwide system for 300+ million people and then decide a couple of years later to change it back. Nice thought but it's not quite that easy.

Yes I am aware of the current health reform in Australia. And think that it is exciting that the system ,after more than 30 years, may change for the better.

If it needs reform perhaps its not as great as you make it out to be.

Look flame me all you want. But why knock a system you haven't even tried. (before i am flamed for that, yes i do have private health insurance and that is because i can afford it and it allows the less fortunate to have greater access to the public system. As a child though my parents couldn't afford private health insurance). I think that you would find that all those countries that have public health systems would say that it should never revert back to an insurance type system.

Emphasis mine. I can think of so many analogies to counter that statement. Most of them vulgar. The fact remains that not having tried something is no justification for supporting it. "Dude don't knock crack cocaine until youve tried it. It really is awesome. They do it in all kinds of places and theyre all fine and great. Cmon man give it a shot"

2nd emphasis... How noble of you to advocate coverage for the less fortunate. Too bad you dont think enough of your glorious system to save yourself some money and participate in it. Where I come from that call being a hypocrite. Also it is sad to hear your folks couldnt afford health insurance, and yet here you are.

[perception]

The health system is not crack cocaine.

May you all live a cashed up employed or extremely healthy life.

I dont mind paying for people who may not be as well off as I. Your sentiment is one of self worth. You woof are no more important than the bum sleeping under the cardboard box. Do you think that your life is worth more than his.

And once more your rhetoric is all about you, dont worry about anyone else.

[groovy]

What about Woof's family? That's Woof's primary responsibility. Not the bum under the cardboard box.

[perception]

what if woofs family one day is under the cardboard box?

[clemgrad85]

Why should that man be under a cardboard box? That seems rather cruel. Why not give him a home? Perhaps he wouldn't have as many health problems if he wasn't under a cardboard box. And while we're at it, why not give him a car.....doesn't seem fair that others might have an advantage at job opportunities if they have transportation and he doesn't. Oh wait....how about education? Maybe he wouldn't have even been under that cardboard box if he had the chance to college. So, let's pay for his education as well. My point....where does it end? It would be nice if everyone had a nice home, education, health care, transportation that worked, food on their table every night, a nice retirement plan....but it seems like if that were the case....everyone would be the same so what is the motivation to study hard, work hard, and get ahead?

I to get annoyed at this word "free". Polls here in America often show people would definitely want "free" healthcare....but when you throw in the part about having to pay for it, the polls change. Nothing is free....someone is paying for it and the people Obama wants to fund any and everything simply can't afford to pay for all his wish list.

[perception]

So why can so many other countries afford it? And consider the cost as a % of population.

[Micael]

Originally Posted by groovy

.... and furry little bunny rabbits.

You hate furry little bunny rabbits?!?!