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webOS Nation Forums > Other Forums > Off Topic > Destroying Healthcare in America
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Thread title chosen: 
Originally Posted by Micael:
Destroying Healthcare in America
Response to: Destroying Healthcare in America
Originally Posted by pasturing:
How can we achieve a better proposal?
How can we achieve a better proposal?
Originally Posted by Micael:
1. Open up the dialogue
Got Irony? 1. Open up the dialogue
Originally Posted by Micael:
Nothing I said indicated a time factor. It was a process layout. It could occur in a day, a week, a month, or a year. The point is to do the right thing, not the wrong thing that causes higher taxes, fines, and penalties for john q. public.
And enough of the name calling. If you don't agree, say so. I don't appreciate being called a moron.
OK, I don't agree. However, I do agree with your sigline. Nothing I said indicated a time factor. It was a process layout. It could occur in a day, a week, a month, or a year. The point is to do the right thing, not the wrong thing that causes higher taxes, fines, and penalties for john q. public.
And enough of the name calling. If you don't agree, say so. I don't appreciate being called a moron.
You may interpret my post however you want, and determine if I was calling anyone a name, other than those who want to delay and do nothing. That doesn't appear to include you, right?
Sorry....you are wrong about how rapid such an effort might take place. Realistically? Give me an estimate.
Originally Posted by davidra:
OK, I don't agree. However, I do agree with your sigline.
You may interpret my post however you want, and determine if I was calling anyone a name, other than those who want to delay and do nothing. That doesn't appear to include you, right?
Sorry....you are wrong about how rapid such an effort might take place. Realistically? Give me an estimate.
I guess it should take as long as it takes - and that's not meant as a smart*ss answer. It took decades to get us to this point, so "realistically" it won't be an up and down vote that turns this ship around.OK, I don't agree. However, I do agree with your sigline.
You may interpret my post however you want, and determine if I was calling anyone a name, other than those who want to delay and do nothing. That doesn't appear to include you, right?
Sorry....you are wrong about how rapid such an effort might take place. Realistically? Give me an estimate.
Originally Posted by Micael:
I guess it should take as long as it takes - and that's not meant as a smart*ss answer. It took decades to get us to this point, so "realistically" it won't be an up and down vote that turns this ship around.
Oh come on Micael, you know the magical Democrats and The One can fix anything almost immediately. Knowing what best for everyone, better than they know themselves gives you that kind of power. Where have you been?I guess it should take as long as it takes - and that's not meant as a smart*ss answer. It took decades to get us to this point, so "realistically" it won't be an up and down vote that turns this ship around.
Thing that most people over look is that the Public Option is simply an option. If you can afford private insurance then get it. If you cannot then you will have a Gov. funded option which may make seeking health care more accessible.
At least there is an attempt to remedy/fix the issues. Ex. being dropped b/c of some prior condition.
Also why not submit ideas to your local officials. Lets work to make this idea an reality!
At least there is an attempt to remedy/fix the issues. Ex. being dropped b/c of some prior condition.
Also why not submit ideas to your local officials. Lets work to make this idea an reality!
Originally Posted by kmehr:
Thing that most people over look is that the Public Option is simply an option. If you can afford private insurance then get it. If you cannot then you will have a Gov. funded option which may make seeking health care more accessible.
At least there is an attempt to remedy/fix the issues. Ex. being dropped b/c of some prior condition.
Also why not submit ideas to your local officials. Lets work to make this idea an reality!
Sorry. You are making the mistake of thinking that some of these people want to change the system. They voted against change, and now they are putting that vote into inaction. Additionally, when you say it's only an option, they say "you lie" because they don't believe you. Or the president. And as far as those who don't currently have access.....TS.Thing that most people over look is that the Public Option is simply an option. If you can afford private insurance then get it. If you cannot then you will have a Gov. funded option which may make seeking health care more accessible.
At least there is an attempt to remedy/fix the issues. Ex. being dropped b/c of some prior condition.
Also why not submit ideas to your local officials. Lets work to make this idea an reality!
Originally Posted by Micael:
I guess it should take as long as it takes - and that's not meant as a smart*ss answer. It took decades to get us to this point, so "realistically" it won't be an up and down vote that turns this ship around.
It took decades of obstructionism by republicans and special interests. That's true, you got me there. Maybe now we can actually get something done. For at least 15 years I've been saying that we were never going to get health care reform done until the cost got so high that middle income workers could not longer afford to have decent coverage. Nobody pays any attention to minimum wage earners, because they don't vote very much and they don't contribute much and nobody speaks for them at all. But middle income employees do vote. If something isn't done right now, and they are delayed for several years. things will only get worse, and then we'll be in an even more dire situation. Cost controls need to be implemented now, not in two years or until Grassley becomes even more demented. Republicans do NOT want change in health care; they never have. The few that have were essentially booted out of the party (try Jacob Javits, who developed a national health plan in the '70s). There still have not been any concrete proposals that do anything to control costs put forward by any republican in congress. There is no opinion here; those are the facts.I guess it should take as long as it takes - and that's not meant as a smart*ss answer. It took decades to get us to this point, so "realistically" it won't be an up and down vote that turns this ship around.
Originally Posted by davidra:
Sorry. You are making the mistake of thinking that some of these people want to change the system. They voted against change, and now they are putting that vote into inaction. Additionally, when you say it's only an option, they say "you lie" because they don't believe you. Or the president. And as far as those who don't currently have access.....TS.
As well you too are making a mistake thinking that people don't want change to come. Are you in health care????? My guess is NO! If you are ask your patients what do they really want and what concerns they have with the plan OUR PRESIDENT MR. OBAMA is pushing for. You will then see that they want change, however they are worried about the Gov. having a hand in the issue... This is not that much different from when Reagan was pushing for the Social Security system. Sorry. You are making the mistake of thinking that some of these people want to change the system. They voted against change, and now they are putting that vote into inaction. Additionally, when you say it's only an option, they say "you lie" because they don't believe you. Or the president. And as far as those who don't currently have access.....TS.
Now to the "You Lie." That comment was totally uncalled for and out of line. What are we in kindergarten? The major issue is that many Republicans are more concerned about tarnishing the image of Our President, instead of focusing on the "real" issues at hand. Better yet lets revert back to the last 8 yrs. and go to war because "he threatened my father" and then lets turn around and call it a "success" and miss lead everyone and give false expectation that the WAR will be "quick and simple" WOW that coming from a person who avoided the war.
If everyone took your view "And as far as those who don't currently have access.....TS" well, how will that help anything?
Yeah, I forgot about Nancy's fleet. You speak of supporting insurance companies. Look closer. We are actually going supporting the UAW and its retirement fund to the tune of $10,000,000,000.
Originally Posted by davidra:
We sure are. We're forced to buy billion dollar jets and aircraft carriers and pay for Blackwater thugs, and nobody asked my opinion. Too bad for me, right? Well, too bad for you too. At least we could simplify it by just paying for it out of taxes....but you'd rather waste your money supporting insurance companies. Great judgement.
We sure are. We're forced to buy billion dollar jets and aircraft carriers and pay for Blackwater thugs, and nobody asked my opinion. Too bad for me, right? Well, too bad for you too. At least we could simplify it by just paying for it out of taxes....but you'd rather waste your money supporting insurance companies. Great judgement.
Was it out of line? Barry effectively called Sara Palin a liar in his speech when he spoke of death panels. The thing is - death panels did exist in the legislation and do exist in a number of states - Oregon is one of them. Barry out-right lied on that count and did not blink an eye about it. Health care reform? It is not reform. It amounts to destroying the current system with a socialist system that does not work well, especially in a country as big as ours.
Originally Posted by kmehr:
As well you too are making a mistake thinking that people don't want change to come. Are you in health care????? My guess is NO! If you are ask your patients what do they really want and what concerns they have with the plan OUR PRESIDENT MR. OBAMA is pushing for. You will then see that they want change, however they are worried about the Gov. having a hand in the issue... This is not that much different from when Reagan was pushing for the Social Security system.
Now to the "You Lie." That comment was totally uncalled for and out of line. What are we in kindergarten? The major issue is that many Republicans are more concerned about tarnishing the image of Our President, instead of focusing on the "real" issues at hand. Better yet lets revert back to the last 8 yrs. and go to war because "he threatened my father" and then lets turn around and call it a "success" and miss lead everyone and give false expectation that the WAR will be "quick and simple" WOW that coming from a person who avoided the war.
If everyone took your view "And as far as those who don't currently have access.....TS" well, how will that help anything?
As well you too are making a mistake thinking that people don't want change to come. Are you in health care????? My guess is NO! If you are ask your patients what do they really want and what concerns they have with the plan OUR PRESIDENT MR. OBAMA is pushing for. You will then see that they want change, however they are worried about the Gov. having a hand in the issue... This is not that much different from when Reagan was pushing for the Social Security system.
Now to the "You Lie." That comment was totally uncalled for and out of line. What are we in kindergarten? The major issue is that many Republicans are more concerned about tarnishing the image of Our President, instead of focusing on the "real" issues at hand. Better yet lets revert back to the last 8 yrs. and go to war because "he threatened my father" and then lets turn around and call it a "success" and miss lead everyone and give false expectation that the WAR will be "quick and simple" WOW that coming from a person who avoided the war.
If everyone took your view "And as far as those who don't currently have access.....TS" well, how will that help anything?
The conservatives (not Republicans necessarily) do not believe the government has any reason to be in health care. Where in the Constitution does it state the government has the right/necessity to be involved in health care, education and many other areas it has forced itself in to. The private sector works in this country. The private sector got you your computer, not the government.
Originally Posted by davidra:
It took decades of obstructionism by republicans and special interests. That's true, you got me there. Maybe now we can actually get something done. For at least 15 years I've been saying that we were never going to get health care reform done until the cost got so high that middle income workers could not longer afford to have decent coverage. Nobody pays any attention to minimum wage earners, because they don't vote very much and they don't contribute much and nobody speaks for them at all. But middle income employees do vote. If something isn't done right now, and they are delayed for several years. things will only get worse, and then we'll be in an even more dire situation. Cost controls need to be implemented now, not in two years or until Grassley becomes even more demented. Republicans do NOT want change in health care; they never have. The few that have were essentially booted out of the party (try Jacob Javits, who developed a national health plan in the '70s). There still have not been any concrete proposals that do anything to control costs put forward by any republican in congress. There is no opinion here; those are the facts.
It took decades of obstructionism by republicans and special interests. That's true, you got me there. Maybe now we can actually get something done. For at least 15 years I've been saying that we were never going to get health care reform done until the cost got so high that middle income workers could not longer afford to have decent coverage. Nobody pays any attention to minimum wage earners, because they don't vote very much and they don't contribute much and nobody speaks for them at all. But middle income employees do vote. If something isn't done right now, and they are delayed for several years. things will only get worse, and then we'll be in an even more dire situation. Cost controls need to be implemented now, not in two years or until Grassley becomes even more demented. Republicans do NOT want change in health care; they never have. The few that have were essentially booted out of the party (try Jacob Javits, who developed a national health plan in the '70s). There still have not been any concrete proposals that do anything to control costs put forward by any republican in congress. There is no opinion here; those are the facts.
Originally Posted by bclinger:
Was it out of line? Barry effectively called Sara Palin a liar in his speech when he spoke of death panels.
And he was right in doing so.Was it out of line? Barry effectively called Sara Palin a liar in his speech when he spoke of death panels.
Originally Posted by :
The thing is - death panels did exist in the legislation
Show your work, please.The thing is - death panels did exist in the legislation
Originally Posted by :
Barry out-right lied on that count and did not blink an eye about it. Health care reform? It is not reform. It amounts to destroying the current system with a socialist system that does not work well, especially in a country as big as ours.
Where has your president spoken of this commitment to the US government taking ownership of US hospitals and placing all physicians on the Federal dime?Barry out-right lied on that count and did not blink an eye about it. Health care reform? It is not reform. It amounts to destroying the current system with a socialist system that does not work well, especially in a country as big as ours.
There are those of us who do not question the legitimacy of his birth certificate - what is questioned is why does he not provide it. Also, who frankly cares if he is a Muslim - I do not. His job though is to support American values, not apologize for them.
Barry hurts himself though by not doing the Fox scene. Heck, by its ratings, most of America agrees.
Barry hurts himself though by not doing the Fox scene. Heck, by its ratings, most of America agrees.
Originally Posted by Bujin:
OK, then, maybe he quite rightly realized that Fox's market share is because neo-cons are all concentrated on one channel, and since there's nothing that he can say to change a single mind on that channel.....similar to the way that no amount of facts can convince so many that his birth certificate is valid or that he's not a Muslim.....he didn't want to waste his time.
OK, then, maybe he quite rightly realized that Fox's market share is because neo-cons are all concentrated on one channel, and since there's nothing that he can say to change a single mind on that channel.....similar to the way that no amount of facts can convince so many that his birth certificate is valid or that he's not a Muslim.....he didn't want to waste his time.
Originally Posted by bclinger:
There are those of us who do not question the legitimacy of his birth certificate - what is questioned is why does he not provide it. Also, who frankly cares if he is a Muslim - I do not.
These lies are laughable.There are those of us who do not question the legitimacy of his birth certificate - what is questioned is why does he not provide it. Also, who frankly cares if he is a Muslim - I do not.
FactCheck.org: Born in the U.S.A.
FactCheck.org: Sliming Obama
What is your source for your "info"?
Originally Posted by bclinger:
The private sector got you your computer, not the government.
Well actually, that's not true. Computers and the internet were both funded by the government in response to wartime efforts or needs. The private sector got you your computer, not the government.
Really? Below is a link. Follow the link, do some reading and do some looking around.
Palin: "So Much For Civility" With Obama's Debunking of Death Panels | TPMDC
When you have a one-payer system, you have exactly that.
Palin: "So Much For Civility" With Obama's Debunking of Death Panels | TPMDC
When you have a one-payer system, you have exactly that.
Originally Posted by 1thing2add:
And he was right in doing so.
Show your work, please.
Where has your president spoken of this commitment to the US government taking ownership of US hospitals and placing all physicians on the Federal dime?
And he was right in doing so.
Show your work, please.
Where has your president spoken of this commitment to the US government taking ownership of US hospitals and placing all physicians on the Federal dime?
Everyone has seen it; however, why not do a photo copy of the original one and then post it in its entirety? Also, there are 4 versions types of birth certificates here in the state. Read the article closer.
Ok, Obama refuses to show the real birth certificate. McCain did show his real birth certificate. If McCain refused to show his real birth certificate and Obama showed his real birth certificate, what would you say?
Again, Obama refuses to show the original one - we are sure he has a copy of the original one. So there is no lie upon the questioners part. Show us the original, not the ones released to the public.
Ok, Obama refuses to show the real birth certificate. McCain did show his real birth certificate. If McCain refused to show his real birth certificate and Obama showed his real birth certificate, what would you say?
Again, Obama refuses to show the original one - we are sure he has a copy of the original one. So there is no lie upon the questioners part. Show us the original, not the ones released to the public.
Originally Posted by 1thing2add:
These lies are laughable.
FactCheck.org: Born in the U.S.A.
FactCheck.org: Sliming Obama
What is your source for your "info"?
These lies are laughable.
FactCheck.org: Born in the U.S.A.
FactCheck.org: Sliming Obama
What is your source for your "info"?
Another article of interest about Humana:
Republican Leaders Rush to Defend Insurer Humana from "Gag Order" | TPMMuckraker
Republican Leaders Rush to Defend Insurer Humana from "Gag Order" | TPMMuckraker
Originally Posted by kmehr:
As well you too are making a mistake thinking that people don't want change to come. Are you in health care????? My guess is NO! If you are ask your patients what do they really want and what concerns they have with the plan OUR PRESIDENT MR. OBAMA is pushing for. You will then see that they want change, however they are worried about the Gov. having a hand in the issue... This is not that much different from when Reagan was pushing for the Social Security system.
Now to the "You Lie." That comment was totally uncalled for and out of line. What are we in kindergarten? The major issue is that many Republicans are more concerned about tarnishing the image of Our President, instead of focusing on the "real" issues at hand. Better yet lets revert back to the last 8 yrs. and go to war because "he threatened my father" and then lets turn around and call it a "success" and miss lead everyone and give false expectation that the WAR will be "quick and simple" WOW that coming from a person who avoided the war.
If everyone took your view "And as far as those who don't currently have access.....TS" well, how will that help anything?
Ummmm.....clearly you haven't read the thread. First, my post was entirely sarcastic because I am totally committed to significant health care reform. Second, in fact, I am in health care. Look back over the thread and you'll get a feel for who I am and what I stand for. Meanwhile, allow me to welcome your assistance in pointing out how important this effort is.As well you too are making a mistake thinking that people don't want change to come. Are you in health care????? My guess is NO! If you are ask your patients what do they really want and what concerns they have with the plan OUR PRESIDENT MR. OBAMA is pushing for. You will then see that they want change, however they are worried about the Gov. having a hand in the issue... This is not that much different from when Reagan was pushing for the Social Security system.
Now to the "You Lie." That comment was totally uncalled for and out of line. What are we in kindergarten? The major issue is that many Republicans are more concerned about tarnishing the image of Our President, instead of focusing on the "real" issues at hand. Better yet lets revert back to the last 8 yrs. and go to war because "he threatened my father" and then lets turn around and call it a "success" and miss lead everyone and give false expectation that the WAR will be "quick and simple" WOW that coming from a person who avoided the war.
If everyone took your view "And as far as those who don't currently have access.....TS" well, how will that help anything?
Originally Posted by bclinger:
The conservatives (not Republicans necessarily) do not believe the government has any reason to be in health care. Where in the Constitution does it state the government has the right/necessity to be involved in health care, education and many other areas it has forced itself in to. The private sector works in this country. The private sector got you your computer, not the government.
Such tiresome clatter. There are no death panels. Just because you put kittens in the oven, that doesn't make them biscuits. As was said, show your work. Give details where decisions were made to end someone's life....except of course all those examples that come from private insurers refusing to cover treatments so that people die. You can start your education by watching Sicko, which I'm sure you've never seen and probably never will. Too bad. You might learn something. And what this boils down to is very simple. Until you or your loved ones are forced into bankruptcy by appendicitis, or your kids can't get preventive services, or you watch someone die because they can't afford treatment, you will continue to blabber on about how health care isn't provided for in the constitution. The conservatives (not Republicans necessarily) do not believe the government has any reason to be in health care. Where in the Constitution does it state the government has the right/necessity to be involved in health care, education and many other areas it has forced itself in to. The private sector works in this country. The private sector got you your computer, not the government.
You just don't see any difference between owning a car, having a nice house, and being protected against financial disaster by an illness you had nothing to do with. I do. If people don't have cars, or nice houses, that's up to them to provide. If they can pay for their health care, that's fine too. But if they can't, we as a country have the morality to not let people die in the streets. That's why we mandate care in ER's. But we cannot afford that any longer. Regardless of your denials, you've unmasked yourself as a birther, a deather, and mostly as someone who just doesn't care about people who get sick and can't pay for their care. You are the exact person that is supporting the status quo, which is unsustainable. Congrats.
webOS Nation Forums > Other Forums > Off Topic > Destroying Healthcare in America
