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  1. #21  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE
    maybe you should rewind your VCR and watch junior's 7 minutes of "deer in the headlights" -- trying to remember those briefing about the imminent threat presented by bin laden.

    or when he was coming into that disputed office, Clinton and his staff pounded on him to wach for bin laden.

    no, someone like junior needs his 6 weeks in Crawford.
    The most rested president in history...ya 9/11 was Clinton'sfault -- just loke Katrina...
    Wrong bush that Clinton and his staff were pounding.

    Of course Clinton was telling Bush about bin Laden. I believe what he said was "Not my problem any more". Don't rewrite history. Clinton dropped the ball, then he dropped the other ball, right after he dropped his pants.

    Clinton knew what bin Laden and al Qaeda were doing, what they wanted to do, and decided to invade Haiti instead.
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  2. #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by t2gungho
    I don't know if that is what he is completely saying but arguably one could make the argument that when fewer people die during your presidency then that would be a 'good' thing.
    It was exactly what he was saying.
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  3. #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by NRG
    So if we follow your logic on this, then Bush is responsible for 9/11, right? Also, who had prior knowledge of an attack but continued to 'clear brush'.
    Bush is responsible for Clinton's failure to deal effectively with terrorism? Is that what you're arguing?

    I asked you want knowledge did Bush of of 9/11. What actionable intelligence was he presented with?

    You're right. You'd have pink stains from drinking the DailyKos Koolaid.
    Last edited by 1911sforever; 11/10/2005 at 01:18 PM.
  4. #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by jmill72x
    Wrong bush that Clinton and his staff were pounding.
    missed that one on first read.

    But unless you can cite evidence of staff participation -- I think you should refrain from such aspersions.


    Of course Clinton was telling Bush about bin Laden. I believe what he said was "Not my problem any more". Don't rewrite history. Clinton dropped the ball, then he dropped the other ball, right after he dropped his pants.

    Clinton knew what bin Laden and al Qaeda were doing, what they wanted to do, and decided to invade Haiti instead.
    Clinton and his NSC staff were particulary explicit in telling junior that terrorism and Bin Laden are going to be THE central focus of your administration.

    The peace keeping mission to HAiti cost no american soldiers their lives -- and kept thousands of Haitians from migrating to Florida.

    Clinton had his staff and military beat the bushes in the search for bin laden -- while neocons and righties couldn't have spelled his name and were instead obsessed with sniffing out for jism stained dresses ..
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  5. #25  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE
    But unless you can cite evidence of staff participation -- I think you should refrain from such aspersions.
    I just meant HIS staff. Not his staff.

    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE
    The peace keeping mission to HAiti cost no american soldiers their lives -- and kept thousands of Haitians from migrating to Florida.
    Wouldn't have mattered anyhow. We repatriate all Haitian refugees back to Haiti, we don't offer them the same courtesy as we do to their Cuban brothers. They apparently don't have it as bad, according to Washington. Hypocrasy at it's finest.
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  6. #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by jmill72x
    I just meant HIS staff. Not his staff.
    ewwww ! that stung -- another I did n't see comin ...

    Wouldn't have mattered anyhow. We repatriate all Haitian refugees back to Haiti, we don't offer them the same courtesy as we do to their Cuban brothers. They apparently don't have it as bad, according to Washington. Hypocrasy at it's finest.
    with you all the way on that -- wish we had the same policy on the cubans (remember the nonsense on sending that Elian kid back to his dad ??)

    Gore would've won Florida by an even greater margin had they sucked up to the cubans that own Florida -- instead they courageusly did the right thing.
    Last edited by BARYE; 11/10/2005 at 01:56 PM.
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  7. #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE
    with you all the way on that -- wish we had the same policy on the cubans (remember the nonsense on sending that Elian kid back to his dad ??)

    Gore would've won Florida by an even greater margin had they sucked up to the cubans that own Florida -- instead they courageusly did the right thing.
    Oh yeah, I remember the Elian fiasco all too well. Miami was so close to a race war it wasn't even funny. The animosity between Hispanics on both sides on the fence was boiling, it definitely wasn't a Hispanics-against-the-world thing, it was a Cubans-against-the-world thing.

    Too me, it just seemed like such a simple issue. Then again, I'm not Cuban.

    Gore did do the right thing by not sucking up, the right thing for Elian and the right thing for his election chances. The militant Cuban vote is shrinking as a new generation of Cuban-Americans is eligible to vote.
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  8. #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE
    Gore would've won Florida by an even greater margin had they sucked up to the cubans that own Florida -- instead they courageusly did the right thing.
    I agree with the theme of your post, but can you cite even one example of an official or an after the fact independent recount that showed that Gore won Florida?

    Man, a six year old thorn in your side caused by a false understanding of the reality of history based on total flights of biased fancy must itch like crazy. You gotta love the far left liberal urban legends!
  9. #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by HobbesIsReal
    I agree with the theme of your post, but can you cite even one example of an official or an after the fact independent recount that showed that Gore won Florida?

    Man, a six year old thorn in your side caused by a false understanding of the reality of history based on total flights of biased fancy must itch like crazy. You gotta love the far left liberal urban legends!

    Hobbes -- try to watch the documentary "UNPRECEDENTED" -- it persusively describes the multiple ways that that election, and the Presidency, was stolen.

    off the top of my head I'll recall a few:

    disallowing hundreds and perhaps thousands of black voters -- who were wrongly identified as ex- felons

    entangling black voters and poor districts with insufficient voting booths, long wait times, and scrambled registration lists -- all of which subtracted from the Gore vote

    Having the Florida official who was in charge of making sure the election was fair be a top official in junior's campaign (katherine Harris)

    Having the state's most powerful official be junior's brother.

    using punch card balloting in poor disticts where inadequate ballot maintenance allowed punched chads to accumulate -- making it harder to punch them through completely. These marked ballots were then disallowed.

    absentee ballots -- post marked AFTER election day were counted -- from the military -- because the republicans were certain that most would be theirs.

    in south Florida districts with large elderly jewish retired communities -- traditional liberal democrats, hostile to Pat Buchanan -- Buchanan garnered the most votes because of the confusing instructions they received.

    Others had their votes disqualiifed because they were told to vote on every page --

    A fair and comprehensive recount -- as would be routine in nearly any state -- was blocked by republican appeals to the republican controled Supremes.
    Last edited by BARYE; 11/11/2005 at 01:12 PM.
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       #30  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE
    Hobbes -- try to watch the documentary "UNPRECEDENTED" -- it persusively describes the multiple ways that that election, and the Presidency, was stolen.

    of the top of my head I'll recall a few:

    disallowing hundreds and perhaps thousands of black voters -- who were wrongly identified as ex- felons

    entangling black voters and poor districts with insufficient voting booths, long wait times, and scrambled registration lists -- all of which subtracted from the Gore vote

    Having the Florida official who was in charge of making sure the election was fair be a top official in junior's campaign (katherine Harris)

    Having the state's most powerful offfial be junior's brother.

    using punch card balloting in poor disticts where inadequate ballot maintenance allowed punched chads to accumulate -- making it harder to punch them through completely. These marked ballots were then disallowed.

    absentee ballots -- post marked AFTER election day were counted -- from the military -- because the republicans were certain that most would be theirs.

    in south Florida districts with large elderly jewish retired communities -- traditional liberal democrats, hostile to Pat Buchanan -- Buchanan garnered the most votes because of the confusing instructions they received.

    Others had their votes disqualiifed because they were told to vote on every page --

    A fair and comprehensive recount -- as would be routine in nearly any state -- was blocked by republican appeals to the republican controled Supremes.
    WRONG!! Barye, the excuse you use that is easiest to laugh at would be the statement "Having the state's most powerful offfial be junior's brother" I beleive he is an elected official, or did he steal that election also. Next would be the race card , Chads!!! did you not watch the exhausting coverage of hours upon hours of election officials holding up cards to see if there was any indent on Gore and if so it counted regardless of other punched out chads. Absentee ballots postmarked after the deadline? need a cite on that one. Absentee ballots were rejected because they did not have the electors voter registration number on them (state failed to provide) Confused voters? Can't help you there, it was a pretty simple process for most, everyone even got advanced examples to eliminate confusion.

    Gore did not ask for a statewide recount. He only wanted the heavily democratic counties recounted.
  11. #31  
    Who can forget the image of Gore's lawyers high fiving each other after getting as many military absentee ballots disallowed as they could?
  12. #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by HobbesIsReal
    I agree with the theme of your post, but can you cite even one example of an official or an after the fact independent recount that showed that Gore won Florida?
    In fact, Bush won Florida any which way you count it:

    http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2001/flo...ries/main.html

    "A comprehensive study of the 2000 presidential election in Florida suggests that if the U.S. Supreme Court had allowed a statewide vote recount to proceed, Republican candidate George W. Bush would still have been elected president."
    "Suppose that Gore got what he originally wanted -- a hand recount in heavily Democratic Broward, Palm Beach, Miami-Dade and Volusia counties. The study indicates that Gore would have picked up some additional support but still would have lost the election -- by a 225-vote margin statewide."
    "The National Opinion Research Center at the University of Chicago study was commissioned by eight media companies -- The Associated Press, The New York Times, The Wall Street Journal, CNN, the St. Petersburg Times, The Palm Beach Post, The Washington Post and the Tribune Co., which includes the Los Angeles Times, Chicago Tribune, the Orlando Sentinel and Baltimore Sun, as well as other papers."
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  13. #33  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE
    Hobbes -- try to watch the documentary "UNPRECEDENTED" -- it persusively describes the multiple ways that that election, and the Presidency, was stolen.
    I can't believe that I am responding a six year old grudge.

    I never doubted that things happened on BOTH sides (which is a prime example of why I am not affiliated with any party and look at the man and the situation), so unless that documentary also covered the following small sample of examples of what the Dems did during that time as well, to offer a complete view of the situation, I don't feel it would be worth my time to see only a one sided point of view:

    • 75% of illegal 'felon' votes cast in Florida were cast by registered Democrats. Around 2,000-5,000 felons - some recruited by Democrat trolling operations of the county jails -- have had their illegal ballots counted and included in the election numbers. The Herald found among them 62 robbers, 56 drug dealers, 45 killers, 16 rapists and seven kidnappers who cast ballots. At least two who voted are pictured on the state's online registry of sexual offenders. To find felony voters, The Herald compared a list of voters in those counties with a Department of Corrections database listing felons who had served at least a year in prison. If the pattern found in the study is the same statewide, more than 5,000 felons likely cast illegal ballots. (Excerpted from the Miami Times story 12/1/00 by Times reporters David Kidwell, Phil Long, and Geoff Dougherty.)
    • post-election more than 1,000 military votes have been disqualified by mainly Democratic Florida officials Gore lawyers visted the Florida counties and called on the precincts where the votes were being taken. Armed with a campaign legal memo, they showed it to ordinary citizens attempting to count the incoming votes into believing - falsely -- that the law disallowed military ballots without postmarks, even though the voter registar recorded the ballot recieved PRIOR to the election taking place.
    • The Dems are the ones that designed, reviewed, proposed, and approved the infamous "Butterfly Ballot" that they claimed was too confusing for those over 65 yrs old.
    • That Gore only wanted to recount only Dem heavy counties and refused to recount the whole state when offered. Even though he gave an announcement to have the the whole state recounted, he later tried to remove the rep heavy counties from a state wide recount.
    • The false early announcements that Gore won the state BEFORE the polls closed, promting many to leave while standing in line waiting to vote.
    Last edited by HobbesIsReal; 11/12/2005 at 10:41 PM.
  14. #34  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE
    Hobbes -- try to watch the documentary "UNPRECEDENTED" -- it persusively describes the multiple ways that that election, and the Presidency, was stolen.

    of the top of my head I'll recall a few:

    disallowing hundreds and perhaps thousands of black voters -- who were wrongly identified as ex- felons

    entangling black voters and poor districts with insufficient voting booths, long wait times, and scrambled registration lists -- all of which subtracted from the Gore vote

    Having the Florida official who was in charge of making sure the election was fair be a top official in junior's campaign (katherine Harris)

    Having the state's most powerful offfial be junior's brother.

    using punch card balloting in poor disticts where inadequate ballot maintenance allowed punched chads to accumulate -- making it harder to punch them through completely. These marked ballots were then disallowed.

    absentee ballots -- post marked AFTER election day were counted -- from the military -- because the republicans were certain that most would be theirs.

    in south Florida districts with large elderly jewish retired communities -- traditional liberal democrats, hostile to Pat Buchanan -- Buchanan garnered the most votes because of the confusing instructions they received.

    Others had their votes disqualiifed because they were told to vote on every page --

    A fair and comprehensive recount -- as would be routine in nearly any state -- was blocked by republican appeals to the republican controled Supremes.
    Coming from someone who lives in the thick of this disputed area during the 2000 election, I can admit that some of these are true (especially about disallowing black voters who were labeled as ex-felons), but the one that always gets me is the confusion on the Palm Beach (which is where I live) ballots about whether you were voting for Gore or Buchanan. I've seen the ballots, if you mistakenly voted for Buchanan instead of Gore, you are blind, senile, or just plain stupid, and probably shouldn't have been allowed to drive to the polls, let alone vote. That had NOTHING to do with any sort of Bush-led conspiracy, to actually think this is true is ridiculous.
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  15. #35  
    Quote Originally Posted by jmill72x
    Coming from someone who lives in the thick of this disputed area during the 2000 election, I can admit that some of these are true (especially about disallowing black voters who were labeled as ex-felons), but the one that always gets me is the confusion on the Palm Beach (which is where I live) ballots about whether you were voting for Gore or Buchanan. I've seen the ballots, if you mistakenly voted for Buchanan instead of Gore, you are blind, senile, or just plain stupid, and probably shouldn't have been allowed to drive to the polls, let alone vote. That had NOTHING to do with any sort of Bush-led conspiracy, to actually think this is true is ridiculous.
    thanks for confirming the phoney black felon voter exclusions.

    BTW, I'm not saying that the butterfly ballot mistakes were the product of a nefarious conspiracy -- rather it was an example of how the process of the vote contradicted the intent of the voters.

    I've watched old people be befuddled by things simpler than ballots --- people of that generation are easily overwhelmed by new stuff-- how many VCRs have had a blinking 12:00 12:00 12:00 for 20 years ??
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