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  1.    #1  
    What do the Muslims want? Respect? Not being discriminated against? Whatever, there is no reason that justifies cutting off the heads of other people, blowing other people up or destroying property (i.e. France). Why won’t respectable factions of Islam stand up to these thugs that have imprinted terrorism to their own religion? I think they are clouding 'hating America' and denouncing terrorism. You can have both. Until they stand up to the Muslim terrorists, they will continue to lose legitimacy. I think we are seeing the future of Europe in France. This will continue throughout Europe. If Muslims do nothing, it will one day become an all out war with the World against Muslims.
  2. #2  
    IMHO the people who commit violence under the guise are really not Muslims, they are just terrorists. As it is now, there is a all out war against terrorists so I think your prediction has come true.

    Would I like Muslims to be more forthcoming about denouncing terrorism and acts of violence...absolutely.
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  3. #3  
    Quote Originally Posted by t2gungho
    IMHO the people who commit violence under the guise are really not Muslims, they are just terrorists. As it is now, there is a all out war against terrorists so I think your prediction has come true.

    Would I like Muslims to be more forthcoming about denouncing terrorism and acts of violence...absolutely.
    Nicely said....I fully agree.
  4. #4  
    Victor Davis Hanson in the National Review

    http://www.nationalreview.com/hanson...0511040840.asp

    A fantastic column with far too much to fairly excerpt here. Read it.
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  5. #5  
    From the Counterterrorism Blog, a lengthy list of Islamo-fascist act of "tolerance".

    "Not Just Omar Sharif"
    http://counterterror.typepad.com/the...st_omar_s.html

    Here are more reminders we are fighting a world war against a trans-national fascist movement - not a series of regional disturbances as some might prefer to believe.
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  6. vw2002's Avatar
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    #6  
    if some muslims are so dreadfully resentful of the western civilizations in which they live, why can't they just recognize their incompatibility there and SIMPLY GO BACK to their homelands?!!!!!!!??? Leave people alone!!!

    stop chopping heads off, bombing buses and train stations and just go back to your homeland!!!

    if they want us to leave their homelands alone and cut off all contact with us, LETS OBLIGE!!! Seriously.

    let those in their homelands deal with these people.
    I gotta have more cowbell
  7. vw2002's Avatar
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    #7  
    "first, despite the various professed grievances (e.g., India should get out of Kashmir; Russia should get out of Chechnya; England should get out of Iraq; Christians should get out of Indonesia; or Westerners should get out of Bali), the perpetrators were all self-proclaimed Islamic radicals. Westerners who embrace moral equivalence still like to talk of abortion bombings and Timothy McVeigh, but those are isolated and distant memories. No, the old generalization since 9/11 remains valid: The majority of Muslims are not global terrorists, but almost all such terrorists, and the majority of their sympathizers, are Muslims."



    I've said this all along.
    Last edited by vw2002; 11/06/2005 at 08:59 PM.
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    #8  
    and after they have cut themselves off from the rest of the civilized world, I'm sure they won't mind that we abstain completely from offering them ANY sort of aid or humanitarian or technological support for anything WHATSOEVER.

    we should offer absolutely no financial, food or medical help at all during or after a natural disaster or military tragedy from this day forward. stop importing cars to their countries, stop selling them technology and ANY OTHER form of transactions. refuse to do business of ANY kind with those countries.

    oh, what is that? earthquake destroys your region killing 100,000 people? tough sh:t. Genocide involving massacre of thousands of people? Hey! Tough sh:t. Deal with it. They deserve help from no one.

    if they want us to leave them alone, we should do so, and avoid any type of humanitarian or financial relations with these barbarians from now on. Period. Let them war themselves into extinction if this is how they view and treat the rest of the world. to hell with them.
    Last edited by vw2002; 11/06/2005 at 08:40 PM.
  9. #9  
    Amazing. Incredibly amazing.
  10. #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by vw2002
    and after they have cut themselves off from the rest of the civilized world, I'm sure they won't mind that we abstain completely from offering them ANY sort of aid or humanitarian or technological support for anything WHATSOEVER.

    we should offer absolutely no financial, food or medical help at all during or after a natural disaster or military tragedy from this day forward. stop importing cars to their countries, stop selling them technology and ANY OTHER form of transactions. refuse to do business of ANY kind with those countries.

    oh, what is that? earthquake destroys your region killing 100,000 people? tough sh:t. Genocide involving massacre of thousands of people? Hey! Tough sh:t. Deal with it. They deserve help from no one.

    if they want us to leave them alone, we should do so, and avoid any type of humanitarian or financial relations with these barbarians from now on. Period. Let them war themselves into extinction if this is how they view and treat the rest of the world. to hell with them.
    Maybe I am missing your point.

    If I understand you correctly...you want to punish all extreme muslims by having the U.S. and other countries abstain from giving aid or commerce. If that is true, I understand the intention but what would be the effect?

    Remember that even if the majority of all terrorists are Muslim, by doing what you propose, you are punishing all Muslims (not just the terrorists). Why punish all Muslims for the acts of a few terrorists (who happen to be Muslim)?

    Set that argument aside for one moment...everyone would pretty much agree that the U.S. (and every other oil consuming country) has a vested interest in keeping the oil coming from the Middle East area. How would your solution work out for that issue?
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  11. vw2002's Avatar
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    #11  
    I'm referring to the radical muslims whom we classify as terrorists. if they hate us so very much, then leave our countries.
    they should simply go back to where they came from, and leave us alone. we should get out of those countries that consider us unwelcome - this includes iraq when the job is finished as well - and leave those countries alone.
    of course I am not directing this toward ALL muslims, but rather at all those who have come to america, england, australia, spain, france or any other country and find themselves at war with the people and established civilization there.
    if you don't like our country, then get out, and we'll make sure to leave YOUR country alone as well. I'd say that's only fair.
    I gotta have more cowbell
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    #12  
    "Remember that even if the majority of all terrorists are Muslim, by doing what you propose, you are punishing all Muslims (not just the terrorists). Why punish all Muslims for the acts of a few terrorists (who happen to be Muslim)?"

    - t2gungho



    it might give the civilized muslim community an even stronger incentive to go after these terrorists and eliminate them. you said yourself you would like to see a stronger voice from the muslim community condemning these acts. well, if they feel some of the consequences of what these renegade radicals are bringing about in the world, maybe THEN they would indeed take a more proactive role in going out to take control of the lawless "few".
    I gotta have more cowbell
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    #13  
    Set that argument aside for one moment...everyone would pretty much agree that the U.S. (and every other oil consuming country) has a vested interest in keeping the oil coming from the Middle East area. How would your solution work out for that issue?"

    - t2gungho


    the US should stop acquiring oil altogether from the middle east and instead divert to drilling in the alaskan reserves and all other areas where oil is located.

    I would think in doing so, this would give us a stronger incentive to develop alternative sources of energy - ie hydrogen powered automobiles which mix hydrogen and oxygen for fuel while emitting nearly zero emissions.
    in effect we would not only eliminate our dependence upon the middle east for oil, but also enact a more urgent incentive to develop a fuel source which would benefit the environment dramatically at the same time.
    we should tap the alaskan oil reserves to get us by while we develop the automotive technology of alternative fuel sources. when technology achieves successful hydrogen-powered cars, we stop drilling in alaska and ANYWHERE else for that matter and become self-sufficient.
    no one is punished then. the environment benefits, western civilization benefits by pulling away from hostile relationships in the middle east, and becomes an independent nation - the way it should be.
    I gotta have more cowbell
  14. #14  
    Quote Originally Posted by vw2002
    I'm referring to the radical muslims whom we classify as terrorists. if they hate us so very much, then leave our countries.
    What makes you think that someone that radical is living in the U.S. (I can't speak for other countries...but the logic is the same.) If they are truly fundamentalists and radicals, I can't imagine that they would live in a democratic country such as ours? (only 1/2 joking...don't you think they would have gotten 'thrown' out under current laws?)

    Quote Originally Posted by vw2002
    if you don't like our country, then get out, and we'll make sure to leave YOUR country alone as well. I'd say that's only fair.
    Arguably it would be 'fair' but we have too much at stake with our globalization policy of encouraging democracies around the world. We can't just leave countries alone...globalization is happening now. There are a lot of untapped markets out there and the argument is that businesses that don't want too much risk do not want to go into a country that doesnt have a stable economy/government in place.
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  15. #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by vw2002
    the US should stop acquiring oil altogether from the middle east and instead divert to drilling in the alaskan reserves and all other areas where oil is located.
    I thought I read that it will be 10 years before a barrel of crude comes from ANWR (obviously we can't wait till then). We could not do what you propose without waiting for either:

    1. more oil from somewhere else (and if we could, don't you think we would have with all the trouble we have in the Middle East?)
    2. more available options for hybrids (and tax incentives to make them more affordable to the average family while still encouraging R&D for the next phases of cars)

    Quote Originally Posted by vw2002
    no one is punished then. the environment benefits, western civilization benefits by pulling away from hostile relationships in the middle east, and becomes an independent nation - the way it should be.
    I agree...it just doesn't seem feasible mainly because we have not spent the money to create the dependence up until now. IMO our energy policies have been very short-sighted which costs us more and more money as supplies diminish.
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    #16  
    "Arguably it would be 'fair' but we have too much at stake with our globalization policy of encouraging democracies around the world. We can't just leave countries alone...globalization is happening now. There are a lot of untapped markets out there and the argument is that businesses that don't want too much risk do not want to go into a country that doesnt have a stable economy/government in place"


    - t2gungho


    that's true, but companies also don't want to go into a country which contains a sector of the population that has declared war on their interests either - stable government or not.
    I understand that globalization is the goal, but if a company cannot carry out business inside these countries without radical terrorists bombing their infrastructure daily despite stable govt, how can globalization proceed? if the govt shows an active effort in pursuing these terrorists and controls them successfully, then companies will come.
    but if we've tried globalization but the people still oppose it despite years of work, then we have to consider our security and best interests - just as any company would.
    I gotta have more cowbell
  17. vw2002's Avatar
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    #17  
    " I thought I read that it will be 10 years before a barrel of crude comes from ANWR (obviously we can't wait till then). We could not do what you propose without waiting for either:

    1. more oil from somewhere else (and if we could, don't you think we would have with all the trouble we have in the Middle East?)
    2. more available options for hybrids (and tax incentives to make them more affordable to the average family while still encouraging R&D for the next phases of cars

    - t2gungho



    1) I would think so, but I'm not convinced that our govt has considered that alternative seriously enough. why can't we import our oil from russia instead for those ten years?

    its unfortunate that it will take 10 yrs before we see the first barrel of crude oil - I wasn't aware of that fact - that's certainly a problem then.


    2) I agree. recently, I read an article which stated israel is close to developing a hydrogen-powered prototype car by 2008 ( I believe ). and they propose that they can release such an automobile which won't have to sell for more than the costs of the asking prices of the today's current vehicles.
    so the technology is getting there..
    I gotta have more cowbell
  18. #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by vw2002
    I would think so, but I'm not convinced that our govt has considered that alternative seriously enough. why can't we import our oil from russia instead for those ten years?
    Does Russia have that type of oil supply? I am not sure. (And that still doesnt get us to the goal of oil independence, it just addresses the short term problem of getting off Middle Eastern oil.)

    Quote Originally Posted by vw2002
    I agree. recently, I read an article which stated israel is close to developing a hydrogen-powered prototype car by 2008 ( I believe ). and they propose that they can release such an automobile which won't have to sell for more than the costs of the asking prices of the today's current vehicles.
    so the technology is getting there..
    LOL, you know what will happen...they will try to export the car to the US, the major car manufacturers will lobby for high tariffs and then the car will end up costing more than the toyota prius.

    Because the government (IMO) has not looked long term for alternate energy sources, the private businesses don't want to make large advances/R&D into different cars...its a vicious cycle. The real question should be 'how do we motivate private businesses (car manufacturers) to get serious about producing a hydrogen fuel cell (or alternative) in mass quantities for consumers to purchase'. (And if they have, then why are they not available? I know I'd buy one.)
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  19. #19  
    Quote Originally Posted by vw2002
    that's true, but companies also don't want to go into a country which contains a sector of the population that has declared war on their interests either - stable government or not.
    I understand that globalization is the goal, but if a company cannot carry out business inside these countries without radical terrorists bombing their infrastructure daily despite stable govt, how can globalization proceed? if the govt shows an active effort in pursuing these terrorists and controls them successfully, then companies will come.
    but if we've tried globalization but the people still oppose it despite years of work, then we have to consider our security and best interests - just as any company would.
    I totally agree. My own preference is that we focus on improving the US before we go about trying to help every other country.
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  20. #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by vw2002
    "Remember that even if the majority of all terrorists are Muslim, by doing what you propose, you are punishing all Muslims (not just the terrorists). Why punish all Muslims for the acts of a few terrorists (who happen to be Muslim)?"

    - t2gungho



    it might give the civilized muslim community an even stronger incentive to go after these terrorists and eliminate them. you said yourself you would like to see a stronger voice from the muslim community condemning these acts. well, if they feel some of the consequences of what these renegade radicals are bringing about in the world, maybe THEN they would indeed take a more proactive role in going out to take control of the lawless "few".
    OR it would just fuel the smoldering hate and feeling of being treated wrongly...
    You would only escalate things the wrong way..

    Its like saying we should punish all american soldiers because of the mistreatment/torture that some soldiers did..
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