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  1.    #1  
    Last week the day after the 2000th american soldier in Iraq was killed, Cindy Sheehan and others gathered in front of the White House in protest.

    I talked to several people there -- opponents and supporters -- and made this little ten minute video.

    Some of the righties may want to download Cindy's arrest, and use it for a screensaver.

    For others there's a modestly interesting "debate" of sorts in the second part between a veteran of the Iraq war, and a supporter of it.

    Any feedback -- constructive, destructive or otherwise is appreciated.


    (those attempting to hunt BARYE down will hear my actual voice, if they listen carefully -- though I've already been moved to a new undisclosable location).
    Last edited by BARYE; 11/04/2005 at 09:27 PM.
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  2. #2  
    Interesting video. I watched it and have to say 'good job'. I was equally impressed by the little boy's answer as to why we were in Iraq. (did you coach him? j/k)
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  3. #3  
    cute. Like how you beat up on the 21yr old who wasnt in the service. I'd like to remind you that supporting the govt and the military doesnt mean you have to enlist.

    The little kid is nice too. A 6 year old who is parroting the voice of his mother.

    Nice work though, maybe you'll win an award.
  4.    #4  
    Quote Originally Posted by t2gungho
    Interesting video. I watched it and have to say 'good job'. I was equally impressed by the little boy's answer as to why we were in Iraq. (did you coach him? j/k)
    VERY impressive kid.

    I seriously did NOT coach him -- you're seeing almost all his video. He did not look to his mom when talking to me (she was about 15 ft. away.)

    One bit cut out was him telling me that he was home schooled.
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  5.    #5  
    Quote Originally Posted by Woof
    cute. Like how you beat up on the 21yr old who wasnt in the service. I'd like to remind you that supporting the govt and the military doesnt mean you have to enlist.

    The little kid is nice too. A 6 year old who is parroting the voice of his mother.

    Nice work though, maybe you'll win an award.
    It doesn't mean you must enlist -- but when you are supporter of the war, healthly, and intelligent -- its easy to be perceived as a hypocrite and worse.

    That he was a "veteran" of ROTC doesn't make it any better either.
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  6. #6  
    Who is Cindy Sheehan? I vaguely remember hearing that name 15 minutes ago.
  7. #7  
    You remember- she was the darling of the left who so imploringly played the bereaved mother, purportedly unifying the spineless left into a solidarity of war-bashers, but who, like so many of her ilk, when the flower of her whacko, extremist opinions were exposed in full, was dropped by the left as if she was radioactive. *See Howard Dean.
  8. #8  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE
    It doesn't mean you must enlist -- but when you are supporter of the war, healthly, and intelligent -- its easy to be perceived as a hypocrite and worse.

    That he was a "veteran" of ROTC doesn't make it any better either.
    sure by lefty haters like you. Military service in this country is a choice. Choosing not to enlist doesnt make you less patriotic. Of course the left will always portray those that dont enlist and still support the military effort as hypocritical because they think those that dont enlist should be against it like they are. So what if he changed his mind about military service after being in ROTC, it's not for everyone. What branch did you serve in? If you didnt serve you have no right to judge someone else who did even if it was just ROTC.

    Why'd you leave the bit about the 6yr old being homeschooled out? Didn't anyone to easily figure out why he thinks the way he does? When he sits at home with his lefty Bush hating mom all day what the hell else is he gonna say?
  9.    #9  
    Quote Originally Posted by Gasmeister
    You remember- she was the darling of the left who so imploringly played the bereaved mother, purportedly unifying the spineless left into a solidarity of war-bashers, but who, like so many of her ilk, when the flower of her whacko, extremist opinions were exposed in full, was dropped by the left as if she was radioactive. *See Howard Dean.

    this is the second time that I've talked to and been around Cindy Sheehan.

    She is literally larger and taller than I expected.

    My impression is that she is at heart a fairly shy person, and that she is rather uncomfortable in the public role she has embraced.

    I’ve watched as she patiently talks to obscure journalists and random passerbys.

    Not a trained public speaker, she is liable to say politically embarrassing things that are inevitably awkward for conventional politicians to defend -– even Howard Dean may sometimes have felt that way.

    Her going to Crawford Texas to wait outside junior’s vacation ranch was a brilliantly powerful way of expressing her frustrations with this war, and the man who she held responsible for the death of her son.

    That protest resonated with the country because it reflected the growing unexpressed frustration and anger that ordinary americans have about this war and this president. Much of that emotion became manifest in her as waited in the sun for junior -– as he enjoyed another of his 6 weeks of vacation.

    Had her son not been killed in Iraq, I don't think we would ever have heard her name. And that would have been how she would have preferred it.
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  10.    #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by Woof
    sure by lefty haters like you. Military service in this country is a choice. Choosing not to enlist doesnt make you less patriotic. Of course the left will always portray those that dont enlist and still support the military effort as hypocritical because they think those that dont enlist should be against it like they are. So what if he changed his mind about military service after being in ROTC, it's not for everyone. What branch did you serve in? If you didnt serve you have no right to judge someone else who did even if it was just ROTC.

    Why'd you leave the bit about the 6yr old being homeschooled out? Didn't anyone to easily figure out why he thinks the way he does? When he sits at home with his lefty Bush hating mom all day what the hell else is he gonna say?

    There are lots of things that get left out when editing a video. That bit about being his home schooled was not germane so it was not included.

    The video was supposed to be 5 minutes in length -- but I wanted to give that 21 yr. old war supporter as much time as possible, so I edited his stuff pretty loosely.

    I left in the pauses between my questions and his answers so that it didn't seem as though I was badgering him or being unfair. I also got the impression that these were questions that he had not really resolved yet in his own mind and conscience.

    As you already know, I am very bothered that the architects of this war are men who supported Viet Nam but who themselves avoided serving -- because in **** Cheney's infamous quote: "I had better things to do ..."

    (and no Woof -- I have never been in the military)
    Last edited by BARYE; 11/05/2005 at 06:37 PM.
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  11. cardio's Avatar
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    #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE
    this is the second time that I've talked to and been around Cindy Sheehan.

    She is literally larger and taller than I expected.

    My impression is that she is at heart a fairly shy person, and that she is rather uncomfortable in the public role she has embraced.

    I’ve watched as she patiently talks to obscure journalists and random passerbys.

    Not a trained public speaker, she is liable to say politically embarrassing things that are inevitably awkward for conventional politicians to defend -– even Howard Dean may sometimes have felt that way.

    Her going to Crawford Texas to wait outside junior’s vacation ranch was a brilliantly powerful way of expressing her frustrations with this war, and the man who she held responsible for the death of her son.

    That protest resonated with the country because it reflected the growing unexpressed frustration and anger that ordinary americans have about this war and this president. Much of that emotion became manifest in her as waited in the sun for junior -– as he enjoyed another of his 6 weeks of vacation.

    Had her son not been killed in Iraq, I don't think we would ever have heard her name. And that would have been how she would have preferred it.
    She is no longer my neighbor . The constant protest at her house forced her to move to Berkley. Guess she could not handle her own medicine. Just so no one is confused, the protest were from her own family asking her to stop the nonsense and return to life. I have been told (by her family members) that she gets depressed if she does not have an article written about her or if someone does not have an interview at least scheduled. I do not know this first hand just what I was told.
  12.    #12  
    should anyone have had trouble watching that video (in that small Flash window) Google Video is now hosting it. (double clicking the window changes the viewing size).

    Google's is providing a potentially cool service -- what they are promising is the hosting of videos of unlimited length, for free.

    The quality of their playback is not as good as I would have liked -- and its taken about a week to get it posted and available -- but it is free, and its a real good resource for video makers to know about ...

    (BTW -- any feedback -- good & bad -- is still appreciated)
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  13. #13  
    Good job, but she's really hard to look at.

    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE
    (BTW -- any feedback -- good & bad -- is still appreciated)
  14. cardio's Avatar
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    #14  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE
    should anyone have had trouble watching that video (in that small Flash window) Google Video is now hosting it. (double clicking the window changes the viewing size).

    Google's is providing a potentially cool service -- what they are promising is the hosting of videos of unlimited length, for free.

    The quality of their playback is not as good as I would have liked -- and its taken about a week to get it posted and available -- but it is free, and its a real good resource for video makers to know about ...

    (BTW -- any feedback -- good & bad -- is still appreciated)
    Barye, good job on the video. I think it was probably a little too long and focused on the one prior military guy in the hat too much. Made it seem like very few people willing to talk about their opposition. The 21 year old studying philosophy would be sterotypical of a liberal, surprised he supported the war.
  15.    #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by cardio
    Barye, good job on the video. I think it was probably a little too long and focused on the one prior military guy in the hat too much. Made it seem like very few people willing to talk about their opposition. The 21 year old studying philosophy would be sterotypical of a liberal, surprised he supported the war.
    Thanks Cardio.

    you want the truth about my video ?? can you handle that truth ?? (To paraphrase Jack)

    The truth is that it was a very small demonstration – especially in the afternoon when most of the interviews were done.

    There were a couple of other veterans there, but they weren’t as articulate as “the guy in the hat”. His story, told matter of factly, was for me a compelling eyewitness to what is happening there.

    During the afternoon shooting the microphone that I use for interviews started to go intermittent. When I went back for the planned second part of the demonstrations, I left it home in frustration, planning to just get shots of the march and the arrests of Cindy Sheehan etc., and not do any interviews (because without a shotgun mic its pretty much impossible to get usable audio in the middle of a demonstration with just the built in mic).

    The night demonstration was larger – but still pretty modest in size. Police had set up ropes separating the pro and anti-war groups, and the protesters who wished to demonstrate the depth of their anger with the war laid down on the White House sidewalk symbolizing the Iraq’s 2000 dead, in anticipation of being arrested.

    Sometimes there are protests where the police behave badly and people get hurt. I will gladly post a video of mine taken at the White House before the war, where police behaved brutally, and an 80 yr. Woman was seriously injured.

    This was not one of those kind of protests.

    Everyone in advance knew the role that they would be expected to play – protesters, police, press and counter-protesters (with their ersatz pre-printed signs).

    Everyone behaved in a gently polite, civilized way. Those who wish to be arrested are accommodated by the police, spend a few hours in jail being processed, pay a fine and leave etc.

    Protest supporters shout slogans against the war –- pro-war rent-a-crowd yells taunts at the supporting protesters -– anti-war protesters taunt back. (Kind of like T/C OT ).

    I got the shots I was expecting and was preparing to leave when that pro-war 21 yr. got into an argument with the antiwar demonstrators. (loud and belligerent enough to get warned by a cop. – though really not THAT loud).

    I was lucky to catch him being warned – and doubly fortunate that he was willing to confide in me the thoughts with which he obviously was wrestling.

    Getting as close to him as possible, I used the built in mic to record our conversation. I was glad it was listenable.


    BTW -- thanks Advance, t2gungho, and Woof for the generous feed back (had it been your stuff, I'd have been MUCH crueler !!)
    Last edited by BARYE; 11/14/2005 at 02:28 AM.
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