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  1. #21  
    I wonder how much of this is political. If we ignore the graphics programs (ie. niche) the only general software for the Mac is really all from Microsoft (Office and Internet Explorer).
    Huh? Obviously, you have not been subjected to the never-ending stream of MacWarehouse catalogs then...

    Honestly, I wish Apple would port OS X to the x86 chipset. They can do that and still make a profit.
    Perhaps...but it wouldn't be much of a company then. Apple is very much about the hardware just as much as the software. They aren't going to jepordize one over the other.

    James, I also don't your argument that you'd possibly switch to OSX if it were ported to Intel chipsets. Most people have an investment in the OS...NOT the hardware. I'm sitting at work with a $1400 G4 that has about $5000 worth of software on it. For a lot of people that depend on their computers for work, the hardware is typically the smallest financial portion of their entire system. If a person is willing to spend $5000 to switch their software and OS, they aren't going to balk at a $1000 hardware purchase.

    Now, in your case, I suppose you'd just have to upgrade Office and Photoshop, but realize you aren't a typical consumer of the Mac OS. Apple doesn't expect all of these wintel users that have a few apps to swtich OSs...that just won't happen.

    Woulnd't porting OS X to the x86 would also make Win emulation faster?
    It wouldn't be emulating...it'd run natively on the Intel Chip.

    Ultimately, the PowerPC Architecture is superior...it's just that Motorola isn't doing a whole lot to take full advantage of that. I agree with Apple in not porting the OS. Had they done that 10 years ago, the PPC would have never been, and, most likely, the push for outstanding industrial design at Apple probably would have never blossomed.

    Why can't people just leave Apple be?
    We're all naked if you turn us inside out.
    -David Byrne
  2. #22  
    Originally posted by lennonhead
    [snip]
    I forgot to say that VPC runs at about the half the speed of your Mac, so don't expect to run anything processor intensive. Also 3-d games are out of the question (except maybe Doom). It is a great program if you need the extra compatibility and if you want to play old games.
    Actually, quite the contrary. I ran Halflife at very acceptable speeds on my G4/400 with an 8MB VooDoo2 (The ONLY type of Hardware 3D support VPC has built-in). CounterStrike Beta6 (It's been a while) Multiplayer wasn't playable however. But I doubt it would be playable on an iMac, with no 3D Hardware (The Built-In ATI Card Isn't usable for 3D by VPC).

    Half the speed is accurate. I used to have a p133 (now upgraded), and my G4/400 ran a little bit faster when emulating games (Which is the only reason I even have a PC).
  3. #23  
    Originally posted by Eug
    [snip]
    OS 9 really isn't a very good operating system. It doesn't multitask very well, and it's not quite stable.
    Your right that it doesn't Multitask well (if I take it that you mean it can't run three extremely processor heavy apps at the same time very well. The frontmost one gets the lion's share of the Processor, the the other two are left doing not-too-much. but if you mean that it's hard to navigate between many open applications at the same time, I strongly disagree with you), but it is extremely stable. I leave my G4/400 on for weeks at a time, and the only time it crashes is when I try to run a Beta Mod for Quake3, or if some Java Applet Crashes IE5. But then again, same goes for my Win98 Machine. I think they have both been running non-stop for a week and a half.


    I am very excited about Mac OS X, but I can't justify buying a laptop for OS X when the OS is still beta, and virtually no software exists for it. I also find it strange that Apple hasn't taken care of the file sharing issues with Windows systems. It's hard to justify spending another $200 (CAD) on Dave just to get basic file sharing functionality.
    Explain to me why this is Apple's responsibility?
    Software exists for BOTH platforms for cross compatible file sharing. It's just as much Windows fault as it is the MacOS.


    The Cube IS cool (pun intended), but in truth it takes up more desk space than a G4 because most people just stick the G4 under the desk. Makes more sense.
    Who would ever dream of putting their beautiful G4 Tower UNDER THEIR DESK?!?!? You're insane!!! remember, you don't have to hide an ugly beige case anymore
    Have you even seen the Cube in person? The first time I saw it, I was in awe. Print doesn't do it justice when it's shown next to G4 towers that look the same size in print.


    Yes, Apple, port OS X to Intel. If you do that you are going to have an all out war! However, you may actually win part of that war. Personally, I love the idea of OS X on a PC. If I could I'd dual boot Win 2000 and OS X in a shot. But I can't.
    Never going to happen. Apple would be only a fraction of the company it is today by selling only software.


    P.S. I wonder how much of this is political. If we ignore the graphics programs (ie. niche) the only general software for the Mac is really all from Microsoft (Office and Internet Explorer).
    He he he he .....
    I have one sound for you : <gameshow buzzer>



    [Edited by Vertigo on 12-11-2000 at 01:53 PM]
  4. #24  
    Have you even seen the Cube in person?
    Excellent point, Vertigo. I wasn't overly excited about the cube when it first came out. I thought...'that's kina neat' but that was about it.

    My wife just got one for herself at work and I went to look at it and i was compleely blown away at how intelligently designed it is.

    I think a part of the problem with the Cube is that not enough people see it in person...it certainly changed my opinion of it.

    We're all naked if you turn us inside out.
    -David Byrne
  5. #25  
    Originally posted by homer
    i was compleely blown away at how intelligently designed it is.
    Hmm. Well, to each his own. I agree that the cube is quite sexy and radical in design. But ultimately, it is an impractical design for mainstream consumers. From what I understand, there is no power switch. You simply "touch" the top of the cube which then boots the system. Exactly why do we need this feature? A simple power button will suffice. It also has NO (internal) expandability. Just an AGP slot. What about CDRW? If I decide to later add an extra drive, or whatnot, I have to upgrade to an entirely NEW system. As I stated earlier, Mac users never asked for the cube! Most Mac users I talk to all request faster processors, more memory, larger hard drives, CD-RW, and lower prices. Not yet have I ever over-heard Mac fans saying; "What we need now is an 8 inch cube, sans fan!". And yet, Apple seems to think they are on the right track. I have to admit, there is a part of me that Wants to jump on the Mac bandwagon, but when Apple releases odd-ball products such as the cube, I have to wonder where their head is!

    What I want is a G4 tower (possibly new design) with at least 750MHZ, 128 Ram, 40 GB hard drive, ATI Radeon (or nVidia GeForce2), CD-RW, more PCI slots, and a list price of $1499. What did I get so far? A Cube! Regardless of anyones opinion here, I have visited enough Mac message boards to see that the natives are restless, to say the least. A year ago, I would often read messages like; "Steve Jobs rules!!!". Today they read: "F*ck you Apple, and your little dog too!!!".
  6. #26  
    Originally posted by foo
    From what I understand, there is no power switch.
    Just because there is no tactile sensation when you turn the thing on doesn't mean that it doesn't have a power switch. It isn't like one of those lamps that you can touch anywhere to turn it on, there is a sensor on the top that you touch which turns it on.

    Originally posted by foo
    If I decide to later add an extra drive, or whatnot, I have to upgrade to an entirely NEW system.
    There are a few options you are overlooking, but before I mention them- the Cube was not designed for those people that need four drives in their computer, that is why the towers still exist. If down the line a Cube owner needs more HD space they can always replace the internal drive with something larger. In terms of CD-RW, if you know of a slot loading one, then I'm sure you could install one of those in place of the DVD drive (no, I don't think any exist). Other methods such as external cases work well too. I just bought a QUE! firewire external CD-RW which works (and looks) great. You can find good prices on these drives, mine was just over $200 which is around the price of comparable internal CD-RW's. One of the major drawbacks of the current towers is their lack of a second full size drive bay in the front, which is why I went external (alternatively you can get a DVD/CD-RW combo drive and replace the stock DVD drive).

    The Cube isn't for everyone. I wish it could fulfill my needs because it is the most beautiful computer out there. You have to see it in person, as others have said, and you'll dream about it for weeks afterwards .

    Apple should not have expected the Cube to make us power users happy. The G4 towers are in desperate need of a major update and an 8" cube didn't do anything for us, but that is not to say that I regret its announcement. It has its place among users and looks damn good while it does its job.
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  7. #27  
    Personally, I LOVE the G4 tower. The "door" in particular. I have no idea why it has taken so long for PC makers (Wintel) to accept style as part of the "out of the box experience". This is the one key point that continues to give Apple its edge of cool looking computers. I am sick to death of boring beige box PCs, especially DELL. Obviously style and design are NOT the single most important aspect to a desktop, but it does have some merit in purchase decisions by consumers.

    I don't believe for a minute that the PC is dead. But if it is, I sure as hell won't miss the color beige!
  8. #28  
    Have you even seen the Cube in person?
    But of course.

    In truth, I like the look of it, but it is impractical, especially for someone like me. I consider myself a power user, and would never get one of these for my primary machine. It would look good in my office, but it would get irritating after a while, since every inch of desktop space is precious to me. I'd rather have my tropical fishtank there than a Cube.

    I like the look of the G4 tower, although I do think it does look a tad cheesy. However, it's superior to 99% of PC cases out there, which just look plain ugly. But even more, I like the design of the case. Superior to most PC cases for ergonomics and build quality.

    Unfortunately, the cost premium for the Apple stuff is just a bit too much for me. I would pay $150 more for Apple looks in a desktop, but not several hundred more.
  9. #29  
    Foo:

    I think Lennon pretty much summed it up, but, just to reiterate (that's what forums are for, right...reiterating my opinion? ) you are NOT the target audience for a Cube.

    That is why apple has different computers. They each are for a different segment of the market. Apple didn't make all three to meet your needs.

    From what I understand, there is no power switch. You simply "touch" the top of the cube which then boots the system. Exactly why do we need this feature?
    Why do you need a power switch? Apple just decided it was unecessary. I agree.

    A simple power button will suffice. It also has NO (internal) expandability.
    True. But that's what the G4s are for.

    If I decide to later add an extra drive, or whatnot, I have to upgrade to an entirely NEW system.
    Hmm...those EXTERNAL firewire drives are looking quite nice...plenty of USB CDRWs...plus, I can take them home with me.

    As I stated earlier, Mac users never asked for the cube!
    Current users? No. That's why Apple made these. A LOT of Mac users want faster processors (myself incliuded). A LOT of Mac users are out there with Power Mac 7200s...coasting along as happy as can be. The Cube was meant for those people who could care less about what is inside their mac. As long as it is a Mac, and it looks cool, they are happy.

    Not yet have I ever over-heard Mac fans saying; "What we need now is an 8 inch cube, sans fan!".
    I don't think anyone 'asked' for a Palm OS handheld with a slot in the back to add a cell phone to it. If all companies just made things that people asked for, we'd all end up with some pretty bland ideas. (Remember the car Homer Simpson designe?...sorry...had to throw in a Simpson's reference)

    I'm pretty sure few people asked for 'no fan'. Why? Because no one questioned it. Comptuers have fans, why should I ask for one without one? Apple decided to remove the fans without asking...one of the most welcome 'features' to come along in a long time, IMHO.

    I have to wonder where their head is!
    In the clouds. Where it should be. Leave Dell and Gateway to make the everyday workhorse computer.

    What I want is a G4 tower (possibly new design) with at least 750MHZ, 128 Ram, 40 GB hard drive, ATI Radeon (or nVidia GeForce2), CD-RW, more PCI slots, and a list price of $1499.
    So do I.

    I have visited enough Mac message boards to see that the natives are restless, to say the least.
    Remember that those restless Mac users that post to the boards are a very small part of the overall Mac community.

    A year ago, I would often read messages like; "Steve Jobs rules!!!". Today they read: "F*ck you Apple, and your little dog too!!!".
    Well, in the end, it's just a computer. Is apple perfect? Far from it. But their approach to software and product design is still innovative enough for me to stick with them.

    We're all naked if you turn us inside out.
    -David Byrne
  10.    #30  
    [/B]What I want is a G4 tower (possibly new design) with at least 750MHZ, 128 Ram, 40 GB hard drive, ATI Radeon (or nVidia GeForce2), CD-RW, more PCI slots, and a list price of $1499.[/B]
    I'd take a graphite G4 tower (new design) with a dual-processor 750 Mhz ppc, 512mb RAM, 80gb HD w/RAID support, DVD-RAM, 4 pci slots, an external 17" 1280x1024 TFT -- all for $2500.

    My Toshiba 4080 laptop has a 14" TFT. It has never dropped any pixels that I can see in nearly two years of operation. Only problem: 800x600 & 640x480 are smaller than the 14" screen with a black frame. Toshiba became aware of this flaw only after the microcode was frozen.
  11. #31  
    Foo:

    Maybe they are listening to you...

    http://www.macuser.co.uk/guest/php3/...le.php3?id=520

    This article mentions that Apple is going to put CDRWs in the next round of Macs and IBM now has the technology to create 10GHz PPC processors.
    We're all naked if you turn us inside out.
    -David Byrne
  12. #32  
    Apple has to be doing something wrong. This iMac is absolutely amazing! I've never used a Mac before in my life and I was up and running in a matter of 5 minutes. The screen is absolutely wonderful, the sound quality is better with it's two built-in speakers than my pc with two fairly expensive externals. And I'm not sure but this 400mhz processor seems quite a bit faster than the 500mhz pc I use at school. I thought I was going to have a problem not having a floppy drive, but the iDisk on Apple's website is a lot larger and more versatile. This machine is so intuitive it's unbelievable. This doesn't bring in graphics or the lack of a fan, which everyone already knows it does better than pc's. PalmDesktop is quite a bit better as well. I can't get over the speed and quietness! Gotta run. Working on making this thing read me a bedtime story and say my prayers for me .

    [Edited by ****-richardson on 12-14-2000 at 01:07 AM]
    -Joshua
    I've decided to become enigmatic.
  13. #33  
    If only the rest of the world was as open as you are! Now you understand what it is like to use/own a Mac Of course Apple's marketing could improve too, which might help a bit.
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  14. #34  
    Originally posted by foo fighter
    What I want is a G4 tower (possibly new design) with at least 750MHZ, 128 Ram, 40 GB hard drive, ATI Radeon (or nVidia GeForce2), CD-RW, more PCI slots, and a list price of $1499.
    Thought that it was interesting that you pretty much hit the nail on the head with the specs for the recently introduced towers (minus the price point). I think you have a gift Foo .
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  15. #35  
    Originally posted by lennonhead
    Thought that it was interesting that you pretty much hit the nail on the head with the specs for the recently introduced towers (minus the price point). I think you have a gift Foo .
    I called it pretty good for a PC boy. I was almost right on the price as well, except that it was the G4 Cube that ended up dropping to $1499, not the Standard G4 towers. That was the biggest disappointment for me. When Apple slashed prices on the low-end G4 to $1299, I thought that Jobs had finally come to his senses (or at least he stopped taking the blue pill). But when he announced the new G4s would go back to their original price...my heart sank.

    Who knows, I still won't be upgrading to a new system for another couple months. Maybe Apple will join in on the PC price ware fun and slash the dollar signs once again. Even though I am a PC user, I'm keeping my eye closely focused on OS X and the impact it will have on the Mac community as well as the PC industry. Could Foo Fighter become a.....a....Mac user!?!?!?!? Stay tuned!
  16. #36  
    Originally posted by lennonhead
    Originally posted by foo fighter
    What I want is a G4 tower (possibly new design) with at least 750MHZ, 128 Ram, 40 GB hard drive, ATI Radeon (or nVidia GeForce2), CD-RW, more PCI slots, and a list price of $1499.
    Thought that it was interesting that you pretty much hit the nail on the head with the specs for the recently introduced towers (minus the price point). I think you have a gift Foo .
    When I first read those specs, I scoffed. Then when apple released their new line of G4's, my jaw dropped. I REALLY want one of those new DVD-R/CDRW combos!
  17.    #37  
    Just heard a rumor that NEW!!! iMacs will be introduced in Japan February, as the Japanese are iMac-happy. Any thoughts as to what might be available?

    Love to see a high-end system with a 60gb HD & 256mb with PhotoShop, Macromedia Flash, and MS Office 2001 in a packaged deal.
    Obfuscation is the philosophy of quality politics.
  18. #38  
    You can bet on CD-RW drives along with G3 processor's probably up to 600 MHz (I can't imagine iMac speeds will equal G4 speeds as they did the last time around). Maybe a revised Mobo? Larger HD's and probably more memory (128 MB on the DV+ and higher) too.
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