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  1.    #1  
    DENVER - Residents of the Mile High City have voted to legalize the possession of small amounts of marijuana for adults. Authorities, though, said state possession laws will be applied instead.

    With 100 percent of precincts reporting early Wednesday, 54 percent, or 56,001 voters, cast ballots for the ordinance, while 46 percent, or 48,632 voters, voted against it.

    Under the measure, residents over 21 years old could possess up to an ounce of marijuana.

    "We educated voters about the facts that marijuana is less harmful to the user and society than alcohol," said Mason Tvert, campaign organizer for SAFER, or Safer Alternatives For Enjoyable Recreation. "To prohibit adults from making the rational, safer choice to use marijuana is bad public policy."
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  3. #3  
    Wow, the "lesser of two evils" approach to public policy. Sad. Shouldn't the question be, "does this behavior lend it self to outcomes we'd like to promote?" Not, "does this behavior lend itself to diminished though undesirable outcomes?"

    NOTE: I'm assuming "undesirable" based on the language of "less harmful." I would aim for "beneficial" not "less harmful."
  4. #4  
    I see a potential enforcement issue. If a police officer sees you smoking marijuana on the street, can he stop you and ask to see how much (so you aren't over your 1 ounce limit)?
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  5. #5  
    Quote Originally Posted by shopharim
    Wow, the "lesser of two evils" approach to public policy. Sad. Shouldn't the question be, "does this behavior lend it self to outcomes we'd like to promote?" Not, "does this behavior lend itself to diminished though undesirable outcomes?"

    NOTE: I'm assuming "undesirable" based on the language of "less harmful." I would aim for "beneficial" not "less harmful."
    At some point I would like to see cigarettes banned.
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  6. #6  
    Quote Originally Posted by t2gungho
    At some point I would like to see cigarettes banned.
    I would vote for cig ban in a heartbeat. At the VERY least in all public places like CA and MO.

    In fact about a 18 months ago I saw a proposal that offerred a compromise for those that are already addicted to smoking. Raise the age to buy cigarettes to 21 or higher nationwide and then then raise the age limit every year after that. So next year no one under 22 can smoke, next year 23, etc.... So then the those addicted to killing themselves can still do it, while the law denies younger ones to start. I do not recall what they proposed as enforcement for this plan.

    I have more mixed feelings about that solution, a lot of it dealing with some of the fine print offered with it. Either way, it apparently never went very far as I have not heard anything about it since.
  7. #7  
    Quote Originally Posted by t2gungho
    At some point I would like to see cigarettes banned.
    I could understand you wanting cigarette smokin IN PUBLIC banned (I agree with this entirely), but cigarettes in general? Why? Shouldn't this be every individuals' personal choice? If someone wants to smoke in their home, that's their business.

    I'm not a smoker, but I think that our society concerns itself far too much in what people should and shouldn't do. I feel that if it does not effect others, let them be.
    "Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen."
    - Albert Einstein
  8. #8  
    I'm moving to Denver!
  9. #9  
    Quote Originally Posted by ExtraOrdinaryJo
    but cigarettes in general? Why? Shouldn't this be every individuals' personal choice? If someone wants to smoke in their home, that's their business.
    Just playing the devils advocate: Would that stand for pot as well? Both are harmful. Both can kill. Both are addictive. Both stink (though one obviously more than the other). Both apparently have a negative effect others near by that are not actually smoking.
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    Ahhh.... it makes me proud to live in Colorado
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  11. #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by t2gungho
    At some point I would like to see cigarettes banned.
    I can see it now....Eliot Ness' great, great grandson kicking down a down with a mushroom cloud of cigarette smoke billowing out to restrict his view of all the underground smokers, who paid $74 a cigarette and $450 a cigar, scattering in a fruitless attempt to escape arrest......I claim the movie rights!!!!!
  12. #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by HobbesIsReal
    Just playing the devils advocate: Would that stand for pot as well? Both are harmful. Both can kill. Both are addictive. Both stink (though one obviously more than the other). Both apparently have a negative effect others near by that are not actually smoking.
    In my mind, yes. If people want to use either in the privacy of their own home, let them. I only have an issue with either if they effect others who did not choose to accept such a risk. Also, I have never read any conclusive evidence of marijuana being addicitve OR leading to the use of more severe drugs....I've seen lots of propaganda, but no conclusive evidence.

    Now...more devil's advocate. Should we ban drinking alcohol in public? The potential effects of public intoxication are far worse, and more easily measureable. Second-hand smoke may kill over time, but drunk drivers kill in real-time. By your argument, alcohol should be entirely banned, right? Yes, i am aware that that has been tried in the past....
    "Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen."
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    #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by shopharim
    Shouldn't the question be, "does this behavior lend it self to outcomes we'd like to promote?"
    No!!!

    The question should be: Is there an overriding reason for government to be involved in a personal decision.

    Cigarettes, Alchohol, Fatty food, Skydiving, Mountain climbing ....

    All things that put you personally at risk. It's not the US Government's business. It's your business.

    Prohibition w/o an overriding societal reason just leads to lack of respect for laws.
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  14. #14  
    On topic:

    Bush & co. took issue with Oregon's voter approved medical marijuana law. How ever will they react to this hedonistic law in Denver?

    Off topic:

    Quote:
    Originally PostedBy: ExtraOrdinaryJo at Today 10:14 AM

    "I could understand you wanting cigarette smokin IN PUBLIC banned, but cigarettes in general? Why? Shouldn't this be every individuals' personal choice? If someone wants to smoke in their home, that's their business."


    If I don't have enough sense to know better, should I have the right to smoke cancer sticks in my own home if I am exposing my innocent children to second hand smoke? It saddens me to witness kids stuck in cars with a smoker.
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  15. #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by ExtraOrdinaryJo
    Now...more devil's advocate. Should we ban drinking alcohol in public? The potential effects of public intoxication are far worse, and more easily measureable. Second-hand smoke may kill over time, but drunk drivers kill in real-time. By your argument, alcohol should be entirely banned, right? Yes, i am aware that that has been tried in the past....
    I might be wrong, but isn't the difference in the past is that it was BANNED entirely. I would seriously listen to an option to restrict alcohol in public places.
  16. #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by santa
    No!!!
    ...
    Prohibition w/o an overriding societal reason just leads to lack of respect for laws.
    This is what I was getting at, but you stated it much more entirely, totally and completely succinctly
  17. NRG
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    #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by HobbesIsReal
    Just playing the devils advocate: Would that stand for pot as well? Both are harmful. Both can kill. Both are addictive.
    Just wondering could you show me a person that has died from smoking pot? Plus, your 'addictive' assertion is rather loose.
  18. #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by NRG
    Just wondering could you show me a person that has died from smoking pot? Plus, your 'addictive' assertion is rather loose.
    Here is a pretty good site with some detailed information about marijuana :

    How does marijuana use affect physical health?
    Cancer of the respiratory tract and lungs may also be promoted by marijuana smoke.4 A study comparing 173 cancer patients and 176 healthy individuals produced strong evidence that smoking marijuana increases the likelihood of developing cancer of the head or neck, and that the more marijuana smoked, the greater the increase.18 A statistical analysis of the data suggested that marijuana smoking doubled or tripled the risk of these cancers.

    Marijuana has the potential to promote cancer of the lungs and other parts of the respiratory tract because it contains irritants and carcinogens.42 In fact, marijuana smoke contains 50 percent to 70 percent more carcinogenic hydrocarbons than does tobacco smoke.43 It also produces high levels of an enzyme that converts certain hydrocarbons into their carcinogenic form, levels that may accelerate the changes that ultimately produce malignant cells.44 Marijuana users usually inhale more deeply and hold their breath longer than tobacco smokers do, which increases the lungs' exposure to carcinogenic smoke. These facts suggest that, puff for puff, smoking marijuana may increase the risk of cancer more than smoking tobacco does.

    ------

    One study has indicated that a person's risk of heart attack during the first hour after smoking marijuana is four times his or her usual risk.46 The researchers suggest that a heart attack might occur, in part, because marijuana raises blood pressure and heart rate and reduces the oxygen-carrying capacity of blood.

    Marijuana's Effects on the Brain

    When marijuana is smoked, its active ingredient THC travels throughout the body, including the brain, to produce its many effects. THC attaches to sites called cannabinoid receptors on nerve cells in the brain, affecting the way those cells work. Cannabinoid receptors are abundant in parts of the brain that regulate movement, coordination, learning and memory, higher cognitive functions such as judgment, and pleasure.


    http://www.drug-rehab.com/marijuana-addiction.htm
    Here is some additional more bullet point information:

    Are there short-term dangers of smoking marijuana?
    In a study conducted by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, a moderate dose of marijuana alone was shown to impair driving performance; however, the effects of even a low dose of marijuana combined with alcohol were markedly greater than for either drug alone39. Driving indices measured included reaction time, visual search frequency (driver checking side streets), and the ability to perceive and/or respond to changes in the relative velocity of other vehicles.

    Discomforts associated with smoking marijuana include dry mouth, dry eyes, increased heart rate and visible signs of intoxication such as bloodshot eyes and puffy eyelids. Other problems include:
    • Impaired memory and ability to learn
    • Difficulty thinking and problem solving
    • Anxiety attacks or feelings of paranoia
    • Impaired muscle coordination and judgment
    • Increased susceptibility to infections
    • Dangerous impairment of driving skills. Studies show that it impairs braking time, attention to traffic signals and other driving behaviors.
    • Cardiac problems for people with heart disease or high blood pressure, because marijuana increases the heart rate

    It is virtually impossible to overdose from marijuana, which sets it apart from most drugs.

    Are there long-term consequences to smoking marijuana?
    Respiratory problems
    Someone who smokes marijuana regularly can have many of the same respiratory problems as cigarette smokers. Persistent coughing, symptoms of bronchitis and more frequent chest colds are possible symptoms. There are over 400 chemicals that have been found in marijuana smoke. Benzyprene, a known human carcinogen, is present in marijuana smoke. Regardless of the THC content, the amount of tar inhaled by marijuana smokers and the level of carbon monoxide are 3 to 5 times higher than in cigarette smoke. This is most likely due to inhaling marijuana more deeply, holding the smoke in the lungs and because marijuana smoke is unfiltered.

    Memory and learning
    Recent research shows that regular marijuana use compromises the ability to learn and to remember information by impairing the ability to focus, sustain, and shift attention. One study also found that long-term use reduces the ability to organize and integrate complex information.

    In addition, marijuana impairs short-term memory and decreases motivation to accomplish tasks, even after the high is over. In one study, even small doses impaired the ability to recall words from a list seen 20 minutes earlier.

    Fertility
    Long-term marijuana use suppresses the production of hormones that help regulate the reproductive system. For men, this can cause decreased sperm counts and very heavy users can experience erectile dysfunction. Women may experience irregular periods from heavy marijuana use. These problems would most likely result in a decreased ability to conceive but not lead to complete infertility.

    Is marijuana addictive?
    No one would argue that marijuana is as addictive as alcohol or cocaine. However, it's wrong to say that it is not at all addictive. More and more studies are finding that marijuana has addictive properties. Both animal and human studies show physical and psychological withdrawal symptoms from marijuana, including irritability, restlessness, insomnia, nausea and intense dreams. Tolerance to marijuana also builds up rapidly. Heavy users need 8 times higher doses to get the same effects as infrequent users.

    For a small percentage of people who use it, marijuana can be highly addictive. It is estimated that 10% to 14% of users will become heavily dependent. More than 120,000 people in the US seek treatment for marijuana addiction every year. Because the consequences of marijuana use can be subtle and insidious, it is more difficult to recognize signs of addiction. Cultural and societal beliefs that marijuana cannot be addictive make it less likely for people to seek help or to get support for quitting.

    http://www.brown.edu/Student_Service.../marijuana.htm
  19. #19  
    I dont live in Denver
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  20. santas's Avatar
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    #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by HobbesIsReal
    Here is a pretty good site with some detailed information about marijuana :
    No one is saying it's health food. Yes, it's not good for your body. Neither are about 1,000 other things. Probably about 1/2 of what you can buy in a grocery store would have a similar list of bad things that it can do to your body on the health side.

    If you want government to take on the nanny role, then they should ban:

    Tobacco
    Alchohol
    Big Macs
    Anything with Palm Oil in it
    Maybe even the internal cumbustion engine.

    (as an aside, from what little I remember when I read about this, Marijuana is not "physically" addictive. It can be "psychologically" adictive. That's can be true of a lot of things, both consumables and activities. Alchohol and tobacco are "physically" addictive.)
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