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  1.    #1  
    The Air Force Academy football coach Fisher DeBerry was reprimanded for saying what many people in sports believe - that black athletes, generally speaking, may have better physical abilities than others. An excerpt from the AP article:

    On Tuesday, in discussing last weekend's 48-10 loss to TCU, DeBerry said it was clear TCU "had a lot more African-American players than we did and they ran a lot faster than we did."

    "It just seems to me to be that way," he said. "African-American kids can run very well. That doesn't mean that Caucasian kids and other descents can't run, but it's very obvious to me that they run extremely well."

    DeBerry first discussed the topic Monday, telling The Gazette of Colorado Springs the academy needed to recruit faster players and noting, "you don't see many minority athletes in our program."
    Call me insensitive, but I really don't see what the big deal is. Look at the NBA and the NFL - there is a disproportionate percentage of "black" players as compared to "white" players. It's just a fact of life that as a whole, certain racial groups perform better than others at certain physical tasks.

    I'm not sure what the politically correct people want DeBerry to do now. Take the comments back? (What's he going to say? "Sorry, white guys are faster after all?")

    The studies I have seen show that east africans are better distance runners than other ethnic groups, and that western africans are stronger. Is it racist for stating a conclusion supported by the evidence?
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  2. #2  
    Not to pass any judgement onto what he said as far as whether it's racist or not but if you look at the words he is using, he is really saying that it's his opinion. He bases his opinion on what he has seen. While that might be empirical evidence, it's a stretch to say that he is stating a fact.
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  3. #3  
    I know, complimenting a group of people by saying they're good athletes is soooooo racist. Oh the humanity.

    C'mon T2, stop trying to be so politically correct.
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  4. #4  
    It's true. The Astros World Series roster lacks diversity (forget about the Hispanics, they don't count, and also forget about their relief pitcher last night with the tumor thingy growing out of the side of his face, he looked black to me).

    Go SOX!
  5. #5  
    Quote Originally Posted by Insertion
    I know, complimenting a group of people by saying they're good athletes is soooooo racist. Oh the humanity.

    C'mon T2, stop trying to be so politically correct.
    I'm not trying to be PC...just that it's somewhat of a misrepresentation to say that he is claiming something as a fact simply because he observes it. (BTW-you are looking at it from the African American side...what about me the slow white guy...it's not a compliment to me. )

    Insertion: since you want my 'real' feelings on this, I will give them to you.

    I don't think it's racist on its face to generalize/stereotype a particular group. We do it all the time when we make arguments. It's often necessary so that the debate can move forward without focusing on every single 'acceptance to the rule'. The important element that you have to include is some sort of statistic. Let the numbers speak for themselves rather than our personal observations. (BTW-statistically speaking, I do think there are more African Americans in a lot of sports...but not all. Look at Hockey? Why is that?)
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  6. #6  
    Quote Originally Posted by t2gungho
    I'm not trying to be PC...just that it's somewhat of a misrepresentation to say that he is claiming something as a fact simply because he observes it. (BTW-you are looking at it from the African American side...what about me the slow white guy...it's not a compliment to me. )
    Hey, be glad you're not White AND Asian like me!
    Quote Originally Posted by t2gungho
    Insertion: since you want my 'real' feelings on this, I will give them to you.

    I don't think it's racist on its face to generalize/stereotype a particular group. We do it all the time when we make arguments. It's often necessary so that the debate can move forward without focusing on every single 'acceptance to the rule'. The important element that you have to include is some sort of statistic. Let the numbers speak for themselves rather than our personal observations. (BTW-statistically speaking, I do think there are more African Americans in a lot of sports...but not all. Look at Hockey? Why is that?)
    I was probably a bit harsh on you, but I had heard this story earlier, and it pissed me off. Then to see this thread...you get the drift.

    Anyways, as to hockey, I think it is mainly due to the fact that it has been a Canadian and Eastern European dominated sport. Not many black athletes in Finland that I know of. If it were to grow in popularity in the US black communities, who knows.

    Whether or not there are scientific facts to back these things up, I think we can safely make some assumptions. If you and I were to go watch the L.A. Marathon next year, I can 99.9% gaurantee it'll be won by someone from Ethiopia or Kenya. Ones observations shouldn't neccesarily be considered racist, IMO. But too often they are.
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  7. #7  
    Quote Originally Posted by heberman
    Call me insensitive, but I really don't see what the big deal is. Look at the NBA and the NFL - there is a disproportionate percentage of "black" players as compared to "white" players. It's just a fact of life that as a whole, certain racial groups perform better than others at certain physical tasks.

    I'm not sure what the politically correct people want DeBerry to do now. Take the comments back? (What's he going to say? "Sorry, white guys are faster after all?")

    The studies I have seen show that east africans are better distance runners than other ethnic groups, and that western africans are stronger. Is it racist for stating a conclusion supported by the evidence?

    Hi, I agree with you that this appears to be political correctness run amuk, but I can understand the controversey caused by such statements.

    You see, the point is that if you take a principaled stance that all generalizations and stereotypes based on race are wrong and insensitive, then you must also accept that both the "positive" as well as "negative' stereotypes are wrong. Otherwise you would have a weakened and shallow arguement if you only opposed what you infer as negative stereotypes. Thus in this sense it was wrong for this coach to make such wide and general statments like that...

    Now do I think he was racist? No, of course not. He's an old guy from a different era and he was just making an observation based on his empiral observations on what he saw as the "best athletes". But even if this observation is empirically true, it is dangerous to accept this b/c then many fear it will justify the use of racial stereotypes in many other cases whether they are considered positive and negative. This is bascially an overblown "seal the leak in the damn" mentality that is often used by many to oppose anything that is even possibly racist. I don't necessarily agree with this, but that's the whole point of "PC"...reducing perceived insult or racism to the most banal and common denominator.
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  8. #8  
    Quote:
    Originally Posted By: t2gungho at Today 04:51 PM

    "BTW-statistically speaking, I do think there are more African Americans in a lot of sports...but not all. Look at Hockey? Why is that?"

    A little bit of socioeconomics. How many ice rinks are located in low income neighborhoods? Same goes for golf (TW aside). It's a $$$ thing.
  9. #9  
    Let's not forget that the africans were bred for economic reason in the days of chattle slavery. It is entirely reasonable that their descendents would have tendencies towards above-average physical capability.

    Further, those africans who were bred were those who had survived the "middle passage" in the human trafficking economy (i.e. millions of souls perished, so only the "strong" survived).

    Obviously, not every American of relatively recent african ancestry is descendent of those who were enslaved. However, given the tendency in this country for people to marry and reproduce with those whose ethnicity is similar to their own, it is reasonable that any "advantage" that was gained in the breeding would remain in the segregated gene pool.
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    #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by pdxtreo
    Quote:
    Originally Posted By: t2gungho at Today 04:51 PM

    "BTW-statistically speaking, I do think there are more African Americans in a lot of sports...but not all. Look at Hockey? Why is that?"

    A little bit of socioeconomics. How many ice rinks are located in low income neighborhoods? Same goes for golf (TW aside). It's a $$$ thing.
    Now that is racist sterotyping.
  11. #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by pdxtreo
    A little bit of socioeconomics. How many ice rinks are located in low income neighborhoods? Same goes for golf (TW aside). It's a $$$ thing.
    Wow, do you teach Racism 101 at your local community college?

    You must believe that black people have an additional leg muscle too.

    Fn racists, can't stand them.
  12. #12  
    Come on this is a PC nation; have to play by the rules, whatever they are at the moment!
  13. #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by dlbrummels
    Come on this is a PC nation; have to play by the rules, whatever they are at the moment!
    Funny...
    But i agree.

    The truth of the matter is when i first heard it my initial reaction was "that $$$**$$! What did he say?!"

    And then i thought about it and asked myself why i was upset. He didnt say anything derogatory and i started to question why i immediately reacted negatively.

    It is conditioning. We have become such a race conscious country that whenever someones race is mentioned in a sentence people start holding their breath in anticipation and apprehension of what will be said next. I understand it though... we have only become that way because of years of segregation and discrimination against minorities. It is a shame. But this reinforced a lesson i have always believed to be true... Never just simply be reactive without conscious thought. Think before you react in every instance.

    With that said, going back to the original statement, there are hoops that we all have to jump through. Despite the fact that what the coach said was not at all offensive... he does have to consider how his words will be interpreted. I know many of you out there might say, no way, good for him for speaking his mind. And to that i will say... that is fine as long as he considered the consequences beforehand and decided that he could deal with them.
  14. #14  
    Quote Originally Posted by Advance The Man
    Wow, do you teach Racism 101 at your local community college?

    You must believe that black people have an additional leg muscle too.

    Fn racists, can't stand them.
    How pdxtreo's statement racist? Asking how many ice rinks are located in low income neighborhoods is a valid question pertaining to the one stated earlier asking why there aren't more Blacks in hockey. Ice rinks are expensive to build and maintain compared basket ball courts (as seen often in Black, low income US neighborhoods) and soccer fields (as seen often in Black, low income African and Caribbean countries).

    The answer to this question give the answer to the previous. There aren't many (if any) ice rinks in low income Black neighborhoods, therefore there is little opportunity for Black youths to develop an interest in hockey, which is why there are so few Black hockey players.
  15. #15  
    Quote:
    Originally Posted By: Big Tone at Today 09:52 AM

    "How is that a racist statement? Asking how many ice rinks are located in low income neighborhoods is a valid question pertaining to the one stated earlier asking why there aren't more Blacks in hockey."


    I'm pleased that at least one T|Cer understood my point. Socioeconomics could be considered to be institutionalized racism, but pointing it out is not necessarily so. Thanks Big T!
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  16. #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by pdxtreo
    Quote:
    Originally Posted By: Big Tone at Today 09:52 AM

    "How is that a racist statement? Asking how many ice rinks are located in low income neighborhoods is a valid question pertaining to the one stated earlier asking why there aren't more Blacks in hockey."


    I'm pleased that at least one T|Cer understood my point. Socioeconomics could be considered to be institutionalized racism, but pointing it out is not necessarily so. Thanks Big T!
    Exactly. Perhaps that point was missed.
  17. #17  
    Canít we all be American with hyphenating us all? That is the beginning of racism.
  18. #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by dlbrummels
    Canít we all be American with hyphenating us all? That is the beginning of racism.
    Unfortunately, no. This country consists of many different cultures. The American citizens who represent those different cultures wish to maintain their cultural/ethnic identities. For many, being "American" means you should assimilate to what "Americans" do. You will find people who do not wish to be called an Asian-American, African-American, Italian-American, etc., but at the same time there are many who do. People who choose to hyphenate do so to recognize where they came from, because to many, that's how he/she identifies him/herself.

    On a side note, the United States is the only country where your nationality is determined by where you are born. If an Italian is born in France, that baby will still be considered Italian, not French. But in the U.S., if a Kenyan is born here, that baby will be an American. No one else does this to my knowledge. That may also contribute to the hyphen.
  19. #19  
    Quote Originally Posted by dlbrummels
    Canít we all be American with hyphenating us all? That is the beginning of racism.
    The part I don't like is he was using it as an excuse for not winning.
  20. #20  
    I don't think it's his comments as much as who he is....he's "the conservative Christian coach that put's Jesus up on the walls and wants to pray for his team"....he's already been attacked by the PC group and this is just fuel for them! Now if it was a different coach, I'd think that this wouldn't have gotten nearly as much attention.
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