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  1. cardio's Avatar
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    #21  
    Quote Originally Posted by Big Tone
    How pdxtreo's statement racist? Asking how many ice rinks are located in low income neighborhoods is a valid question pertaining to the one stated earlier asking why there aren't more Blacks in hockey. Ice rinks are expensive to build and maintain compared basket ball courts (as seen often in Black, low income US neighborhoods) and soccer fields (as seen often in Black, low income African and Caribbean countries).

    The answer to this question give the answer to the previous. There aren't many (if any) ice rinks in low income Black neighborhoods, therefore there is little opportunity for Black youths to develop an interest in hockey, which is why there are so few Black hockey players.
    I take his statement to say African Americans live in low income neighborhoods, and can not afford to go to an ice rink, or a roller hockey rink. Anyone live in Detroit, do the city rec centers have ice rinks, how about Philly, or Columbus, or even Chicago? I know they had one in Biloxi MS, very low income area but since they had a hockey team they had an ice rink in one of the rec centers (maybe it was in Gulfport, don't remember for sure). Did all hockey players come from middle and/or upper class neighborhoods? To me this form of racism is one of the worst, it is subtle and leaves a lot of room to infer your beliefs. It gives the youth in low income areas one more reason not to try anything new. There is not a college in your neighborhood, why finish high school. Well Johnny did not succeed because he grew up in a poor neighborhood yada yada yada.
  2. #22  
    People of any color, any background can do the impossible if the want and talent is there !

    Remember MJ ?
  3. #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by cardio
    I take his statement to say African Americans live in low income neighborhoods, and can not afford to go to an ice rink, or a roller hockey rink. Anyone live in Detroit, do the city rec centers have ice rinks, how about Philly, or Columbus, or even Chicago? I know they had one in Biloxi MS, very low income area but since they had a hockey team they had an ice rink in one of the rec centers (maybe it was in Gulfport, don't remember for sure). Did all hockey players come from middle and/or upper class neighborhoods? To me this form of racism is one of the worst, it is subtle and leaves a lot of room to infer your beliefs. It gives the youth in low income areas one more reason not to try anything new. There is not a college in your neighborhood, why finish high school. Well Johnny did not succeed because he grew up in a poor neighborhood yada yada yada.
    It sounds like you aren't accepting his statements for what they are and instead adding your own spin to them. I grew up in a middle class neighborhood in the South Suburbs of Chicago. We had an ice rink at the school, and had to take ice skating for gym. A 10 minute drive in any direction North (Markham), South (Park Forest), East (Chicago Heights), or West would take you to an area where the schools and surrounding communities are poorly funded that not only do they not have an ice rink, some don't have sports at all because their school couldn't afford it. In fact, three high schools (Bloom Township area) had to combine their sports because of budget issues. This, as pdxtreo said, is a socioeconomic issue which affects anyone who finds him/herself in that situation. It just-so-happens that non-Whites find themselves in this predicament more often that Whites. This is about access and exposure to arts, sciences, etc. and does have a lasting impact on those who, for whatever reason, are unable to obtain it.
  4. #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by dlbrummels
    People of any color, any background can do the impossible if the want and talent is there !

    Remember MJ ?
    This is absolutely true. I agree 100%, but would add exposure to the equation.
  5. #25  
    I would like to add something. I am a married man with a soon-to-be 2 year old son. Over the past almost two years, I've watched my son grow and begin to think on his own. At 22 months old, he's already ordering his own food when we go out! It amazes me how smart he's becoming and contribute it to the daycare he attends and the exposure he's gaining. He is a sponge for information. Knowing this, I do what I can to stimulate his mind as much as possible. Thankfully, I am able to do this. I've witnessed the curiosity in a child with no stimulation die as time goes on. This is the worst thing that can happen to a growing mind. Regardless of what we as individuals feel about racism, economics, etc., we need to make sure that our children are receiving the education they need. If the schools can't get it done, either pull him/her out of that school and send them to one that can, or take it upon yourself to teach your child what the schools are uncapable of. Nothing is more important. My son loves airplanes, baseball, trains, animals, and a host of other things, but if he wasn't exposed to them he wouldn't know what he likes.

    Do you know the rate that prisons are built on is based off of 3rd grade reading scores? The government knows that whatever percent of 3rd grade students who are reading below their grade level will be the criminals of tomorrow and builds prisons accordingly. Let's make sure we do everything we can to help our children (even if you don't have any!) succeed.
  6. cardio's Avatar
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    #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by Big Tone
    It sounds like you aren't accepting his statements for what they are and instead adding your own spin to them. I grew up in a middle class neighborhood in the South Suburbs of Chicago. We had an ice rink at the school, and had to take ice skating for gym. A 10 minute drive in any direction North (Markham), South (Park Forest), East (Chicago Heights), or West would take you to an area where the schools and surrounding communities are poorly funded that not only do they not have an ice rink, some don't have sports at all because their school couldn't afford it. In fact, three high schools (Bloom Township area) had to combine their sports because of budget issues. This, as pdxtreo said, is a socioeconomic issue which affects anyone who finds him/herself in that situation. It just-so-happens that non-Whites find themselves in this predicament more often that Whites. This is about access and exposure to arts, sciences, etc. and does have a lasting impact on those who, for whatever reason, are unable to obtain it.
    Exactly. He inferred that there are few black hockey players because of socioeconomic issues. There are few poor people (white, black, red, pink or green) that play hockey. Do not add to the burden of low income African Americans by giving them an excuse of well since you grew up in that neighborhood that is what we expect of you. Self-fulfilling prophecy is hard to defeat. When we build up the self esteem of individuals, encourage them to try, celebrate every success with them, show them they are important and can do things we will be much better off as a nation. When you wallow in the excuses it gets worse.
  7. #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    The part I don't like is he was using it as an excuse for not winning.
  8. #28  
    You both have valid points. He's looking at things as they are, you're looking at them as how they could be.
  9. cardio's Avatar
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    #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by Big Tone
    You both have valid points. He's looking at things as they are, you're looking at them as how they could be.
    Fair enough. But as adults we have the responsiblity to make things better not give more excuses. Spend a little time working with youth, especially the disadvantaged, those in single parent homes, those in the inner cities if possible. You will see a bright future waiting to come out if we will help them bring it out and achieve their potential. This is a much better solution than telling them they will never amount to anything and here is how to apply for gov't aid.
  10. #30  
    Quote Originally Posted by cardio
    Fair enough. But as adults we have the responsiblity to make things better not give more excuses. Spend a little time working with youth, especially the disadvantaged, those in single parent homes, those in the inner cities if possible. You will see a bright future waiting to come out if we will help them bring it out and achieve their potential. This is a much better solution than telling them they will never amount to anything and here is how to apply for gov't aid.
    I agree that we have to devote more time towards helping kids and is exactly what I said in one of my posts. I don't believe he was saying "you'll never amount to anything", though.
  11.    #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by gfunkmagic
    You see, the point is that if you take a principaled stance that all generalizations and stereotypes based on race are wrong and insensitive, then you must also accept that both the "positive" as well as "negative' stereotypes are wrong. Otherwise you would have a weakened and shallow arguement if you only opposed what you infer as negative stereotypes. Thus in this sense it was wrong for this coach to make such wide and general statments like that...
    Very well said. However, I don't see what is so wrong about making general statements about race if you are not intending to insult anyone. I am a white boy from Utah - people stereotype me all of the time.

    The "you know you're a redneck" jokes are very funny because of stereotyping. No big deal. Dusty Baker gets to say that blacks do better in the warm weather than whites. Who cares about this racial stereotyping statement? Not me - it's his opinion and was not intended to offend.

    Blond jokes can be funny, if not intended to offend. The movie "White Boys Can't Jump" was named after a racial stereotype, but was not intended to offend.

    Looking at these examples, it seems ok to stereotype whites, but not anyone else.

    I can also think of negative stereotypes of Americans made by people living in and out of the US. That's ok - people should be able to say what they want if they aren't trying to hurt someone.

    Society in the U.S. should lighten up.
    Palm V-->Visor Deluxe-->Visor Prism-->Visorphone-->Treo 180-->Treo 600-->Treo 650 on Sprint-->Treo 700p-->Centro-->Diamond-->Pre-->HTC EVO 4g???!
  12. #32  
    Here's a joke I heard once:
    What do you call a person who speaks three languages? Trilingual.
    What do you call a person who speaks two languages? Bilingual.
    What do you call a person who speaks one language? An American.

    Sad, but true.
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