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  1. #101  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    Didn't say that. You did.
    I know you are, but what am I.
  2. #102  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    Didn't say that. You did.
    "we have to look around and say to ourselves, "Damn, that works." then apply this to our own society"
  3.    #103  
    Quote Originally Posted by Advance The Man
    I know you are, but what am I.
    Yea, pretty much getting that way. Don't know what i did to land in this guys sights but I'm there.
  4.    #104  
    Quote Originally Posted by KRamsauer
    "we have to look around and say to ourselves, "Damn, that works." then apply this to our own society"
    Yea, if you were to read the article you will see the discussion about some aspects not being easily applied to other cultures while some are.
  5. #105  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    Yea, if you were to read the article you will see the discussion about some aspects not being easily applied to other cultures while some are.
    Then maybe you should have said as much instead of endorsing it wholesale. All I was pointing out was that you cannot simply say "hey, look, that country appears better than us at xyz, therefore we should copy them." That is as simplistic as the idea that hat wearing can change your genes, as you recognized.

    --that guy
  6.    #106  
    Quote Originally Posted by KRamsauer
    Then maybe you should have said as much instead of endorsing it wholesale. All I was pointing out was that you cannot simply say "hey, look, that country appears better than us at xyz, therefore we should copy them." That is as simplistic as the idea that hat wearing can change your genes, as you recognized.

    --that guy
    I posted the links to the two complete stories, If you feel I should copy and past the entire story into the post then I shall in the future.
  7. #107  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    I posted the links to the two complete stories, If you feel I should copy and past the entire story into the post then I shall in the future.
    Don't post whole articles. That is against our policy. Thanks.
  8. #108  
    If nothing else, this thread is a fascinating insight into the modern american views of the Nordic countries, Socialism and their own future.

    I dare say i hardly agree with anyone here. Of course socialism is the way to go! What else is there?
  9. #109  
    Of course socialism is the way to go! What else is there?
    Sure - the 20th century was filled with such shining examples of collectivism for us to follow.
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  10. #110  
    I see the irony but fail to understand it. The examples you have in mind are...?
  11. #111  
    I see the irony but fail to understand it. The examples you have in mind are...?
    ... the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics... Germany under the National Socialistsm etc, etc....
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  12. #112  
    Quote Originally Posted by phurth
    ... the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics... Germany under the National Socialistsm etc, etc....
    Typically Socialists do not wish to return to the days of the Nazis.
  13. #113  
    Quote Originally Posted by KRamsauer
    Typically Socialists do not wish to return to the days of the Nazis.
    Understood. I was giving collectivist examples. Naziism and communism are two sides of the same coin.
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  14. #114  
    Quote Originally Posted by KRamsauer
    Typically Socialists do not wish to return to the days of the Nazis.
    Also, I don't mean to imply anyone anyone wants to return to those days. All I'm saying is that socialism leads to a loss of freedom - a loss ultimately expressed in the two examples I gave.
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  15. #115  
    Quote Originally Posted by phurth
    ... the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics... Germany under the National Socialistsm etc, etc....
    At first i thought you were either making a bad joke or being plain stupid. However, after discussing this with some co-workers, I came to the conclusion that your answer is not totally wrong. Altough far off at the same time. It all comes down to differences in common usage i belive. Socialism in US common usage is obviously a term for the examples you mentioned. Where as in European common usage it signifies Social Democracy. And since this is an american forum foremost, i do apologize for my mistake. Just so everyone knows what i am talking about, here is a link

    Now back to the topic at hand: Social Democracy is the only way to go!
  16. #116  
    Quote Originally Posted by phurth
    Also, I don't mean to imply anyone anyone wants to return to those days. All I'm saying is that socialism leads to a loss of freedom - a loss ultimately expressed in the two examples I gave.
    Gotcha. FYI, part of the reason I posted that was I wanted to make sure everyone knew you were talking about Hitler's regime. Not everyone knows what "National Socialists" are.
  17. #117  
    Quote Originally Posted by RythmDivine
    At first i thought you were either making a bad joke or being plain stupid. However, after discussing this with some co-workers, I came to the conclusion that your answer is not totally wrong. Altough far off at the same time. It all comes down to differences in common usage i belive. Socialism in US common usage is obviously a term for the examples you mentioned. Where as in European common usage it signifies Social Democracy. And since this is an american forum foremost, i do apologize for my mistake. Just so everyone knows what i am talking about, here is a link

    Now back to the topic at hand: Social Democracy is the only way to go!
    Understood. In the US at least, the term "socialism" does carry historical baggage. Social democracy, on the other hand is regarded (by conservatives, naturally) primarily as a means of acheiving high levels of unemployment and low levels of economic growth - but at least the people all get mediocre levels of social services.
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  18. #118  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    Let's look at Infant mortality rate:

    Rank Country Value / Unit
    << SNIP >>
    6. Finland 3.59 deaths/1,000 live births
    << SNIP >>
    34. Cuba 6.45 deaths/1,000 live births
    35. Taiwan 6.52 deaths/1,000 live births
    36. United States 6.63 deaths/1,000 live births


    The simple fact that that an employer of 1.33 million Americans does not insure nearly half of it's employees' children is disgusting. Wal-Mart is a cancer not only on this Country but on this planet.
    I've been thinking about this since this post and did a little digging. This statistic is very misleading. Consider the following (though referring to Cuba, the point with regard to Finland is the same):
    Source: http://www.overpopulation.com/articles/2002/000019.html

    The primary reason Cuba has a lower infant mortality rate than the United States is that the United States is a world leader in an odd category -- the percentage of infants who die on their birthday. In any given year in the United States anywhere from 30-40 percent of infants die before they are even a day old.

    Why? Because the United States also easily has the most intensive system of emergency intervention to keep low birth weight and premature infants alive in the world. The United States is, for example, one of only a handful countries that keeps detailed statistics on early fetal mortality -- the survival rate of infants who are born as early as the 20th week of gestation.

    How does this skew the statistics? Because in the United States if an infant is born weighing only 400 grams and not breathing, a doctor will likely spend lot of time and money trying to revive that infant. If the infant does not survive -- and the mortality rate for such infants is in excess of 50 percent -- that sequence of events will be recorded as a live birth and then a death.

    In many countries, however, (including many European countries) such severe medical intervention would not be attempted and, moreover, regardless of whether or not it was, this would be recorded as a fetal death rather than a live birth. That unfortunate infant would never show up in infant mortality statistics.
    The assertion that more babies die in the US because WalMart (or society in general) does not provide adequate care is certainly not beyond question.
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  19. #119  
    Thats what the conservatives belive? The very same people that were convinced Iraq possesed large amounts of WMDs? Then i could not care less...

    What is the actual amount of US citizens that

    1) lack employment
    2) lack medical insurance
    3) are considered to be Poor

    ?
  20. #120  
    Quote Originally Posted by RythmDivine
    Thats what the conservatives belive? The very same people that were convinced Iraq possesed large amounts of WMDs? Then i could not care less...
    What a short memory you must have. The entire world believed this prior to the war. To bring it up in this unrelated thread as a (weak) attempt to discredit conservatives is pretty lame.
    What is the actual amount of US citizens that

    1) lack employment
    The unemployment rate in the U.S. is 5.1% as of September (post hurricane Katrina numbers).
    2) lack medical insurance
    Not sure about this. Since medical insurance is not run by the government, I don't know that there are independant numbers on this.
    3) are considered to be Poor
    12% below the official poverty line (2004). Those people obviously do receive social services, including medical care.

    Before you launch into what a social paradise Sweden is, keep in mind you live in a tiny homogenous country. Because something works there (over a historically short period of time) does not mean it could work anywhere else.

    Each year the U.S. admits between 700,000 and 900,000 legal immigrants. In 2004 1,016 of your countrymen became U.S. citizens.

    There don't seem to be any statistics online about American emigration to Sweden. I'm guessing the number is very, very small.
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