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  1. #21  
    I think that this Wilkerson guy was actually saying Bush policy is run by cable...



    Even though you can't see Cheney and Rumsfeld in this picture, if you look very closely you might be able to see them using it to work Powell's arm...

    And here you can see Cheney working the levers of power - which everyone knows are attached to the cables of power:



    Clearly Lawrence Wilkerson is on to something big.
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  2. #22  
    NOW you're beginning to understand.
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  3. NRG
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    #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE
    That must be the alternating grip.
  4. #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by pdxtreo
    Your feeble attempt to deflect the TRUTH had no effect on me!
    Sir, to whom do you address yourself?
  5. #25  
    Quote Originally Posted by pdxtreo
    Your feeble attempt to deflect the TRUTH had no effect on me!
    I do not believe in Truth, much less TRUTH.
  6. #26  
    one minute of the discussion of Iraq and al Queda by conservatives on the McGlaughlin Group
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  7. #27  
    Quote:
    Originally Posted By: whmurray at Yesterday 06:33 PM

    "Sir, to whom do you address yourself? "


    j/k with duanedude1, in line with the general tone of the thread. Did you not read it from the start? Sorry to offend, should have quoted for your benefit.
    Last edited by pdxtreo; 10/24/2005 at 02:55 AM. Reason: Reference accuracy.
  8. funsnail's Avatar
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    #28  
    So, the problem is that the presidents foreign policy is being run by the presidents selected men.
  9. #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by funsnail
    So, the problem is that the presidents foreign policy is being run by the presidents selected men.

    Why didn't Bush's foreign-policy critics speak out a year ago?
    By Fred Kaplan SLATE
    Monday, Oct. 24, 2005

    Two erstwhile loyalists have come out roaring against President George W. Bush this past week, attacking not just his conduct of the war in Iraq but the foundations of his foreign policy generally.

    The critics are retired Lt. Gen. Brent Scowcroft, a longtime friend and former national security adviser of Bush's father, who attacks his targets in a profile by Jeffrey Goldberg in the latest issue of The New Yorker...

    Scowcroft, besides voicing dismay over the invasion of Baghdad, slashes the administration—especially his old friend **** Cheney and his own former underling Condoleezza Rice—for their "evangelical" notion that they can export democracy at the point of a gun.

    ...The startling thing here is the critics—consummate insiders, veteran military officers, who as a rule don't reveal secrets or attack presidents, especially those named Bush.

    One question comes to mind, though: What took them so long? Why didn't they come out and tell us these things, oh, say, a year ago, when their words might have made a difference?

    ...[Scowcroft] did write an op-ed piece for the Wall Street Journal in August 2002, just as the president was gearing up for war, titled "Don't Attack Saddam," in which he argued that Iraq posed no immediate threat and that an invasion would detract from the more urgent war on terrorism. Given his relationship with the Bush family, it was a brave piece to write—and it had consequences. As The New Yorker piece points out, Bush did not renew Scowcroft's appointment as chairman of the President's Foreign Intelligence Advisory Board when his term expired in 2004; and his old friends in high office—Rumsfeld, Cheney, Rice, and so forth—stopped speaking to him. Though he didn't speak out much against the war as it progressed—or against Bush's fantasy-ridden foreign-policy rhetoric as it took off—at least he'd tried once.

    ...Gen. Eric Shinseki, the Army chief of staff, who, shortly before the war, testified before a congressional committee that a few hundred thousand troops might be needed to occupy Iraq—only to be upbraided, humiliated, and essentially dismissed from office a year before his term was up.

    ...another critic lurking in the background of The New Yorker article, and if he were ever to step into the light, it would be one of the most sensational protests in history. That third man is the sitting president's father, George H.W. Bush himself. ...Read carefully what he says about the ostensible subject of the profile, Scowcroft:

    "He has a great propensity for friendship. By that, I mean someone I can depend on to tell me what I need to know and not just what I want to hear. … [He] was very good about making sure that we did not solely consider the "best case," but instead considered what it would mean if things went our way, and also if they did not."

    Isn't the patriarch talking, implicitly, about the son? Isn't he saying that W. is in deep trouble because he's surrounded himself with people who tell him only what he wants to hear and paint only rosy pictures of best-case scenarios? Isn't he telling his boy to get some real friends?
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  10. cardio's Avatar
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    #30  
    BARYE, I think you are reading into the statement what you want it to say. He (Bush Sr.) is praising a friendship he had with an individual, you want it to mean that he is telling Jr. he made a bad choice. I do not think the two are as connected as you want them to be.
  11. #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by cardio
    BARYE, I think you are reading into the statement what you want it to say. He (Bush Sr.) is praising a friendship he had with an individual, you want it to mean that he is telling Jr. he made a bad choice. I do not think the two are as connected as you want them to be.

    daddy is never going to publicly repudiate junior. I certainly don't expect that we'll be reading any articles or speeches from daddy like Snowcroft's or Wilkinson's.

    But for daddy to so forcefully use those particular words in his praise of Snowcroft has to be seen as criticism for the way that junior has wrapped himself in cronies and yesmen.
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  12. #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE
    daddy is never going to publicly repudiate junior. I certainly don't expect that we'll be reading any articles or speeches from daddy like Snowcroft's or Wilkinson's.

    But for daddy to so forcefully use those particular words in his praise of Snowcroft has to be seen as criticism for the way that junior has wrapped himself in cronies and yesmen.
    Your entire premise - that the Bush foreign policy has been a demonstrable failure - is completely false.
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  13. #33  
    Quote Originally Posted by phurth
    Your entire premise - that the Bush foreign policy has been a demonstrable failure - is completely false.

    please. I invite you to tell us of the glory that is HIS foriegn policy achievements !!

    the floor is yours
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  14.    #34  
    Reminds me of the Daily Show from yesterday (clips are available on comedycentral.com) when William Kristol was the guest.
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  15. #35  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE
    please. I invite you to tell us of the glory that is HIS foriegn policy achievements !!

    the floor is yours
    Iraq
    - first democratic elections
    - draft constitution election
    - no more Saddam

    Afganistan
    - no more Taliban
    - first democratic elections
    - no longer Al Qaeda base of operations

    Libya
    - renounces nuclear ambitions

    N. Korea
    - appears to be contained and no longer pursuing nuclear ambitions

    Saudi Arabia
    - support for Al Qaeda no longer receiving tacit approval of Saudi leadership (something about having 150,000 US troops on their northern border, I suspect...)

    War on Terror (in general)
    - Q: How many A.Q. attacks in the U.S. since 9/11?
    - A: 0

    These are off the top of my head - shall I continue??? Your hyper-partisanship blinds you to reality - not an envious place to be.

    I'll grant you that our relations with France have suffered.
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  16. #36  
    [QUOTE]
    Quote Originally Posted by phurth
    Iraq
    - first democratic elections
    - draft constitution election
    - no more Saddam
    a catastophic blunder of monstrous dimension -- the direct product of ignorance disguised by arrogance


    Afganistan
    - no more Taliban
    - first democratic elections
    - no longer Al Qaeda base of operations
    an initial success being overcome by the derelection of resources and focus of iraq


    Libya
    - renounces nuclear ambitions
    which it had been attempting to negotiate prior to 9/11 -- and had nothing to do with it or junior (everything to do with Quaddafi's intending to let his son inherit his "throne"

    N. Korea
    - appears to be contained and no longer pursuing nuclear ambitions
    junior's axis of evil pose ramped what had been a minor simmering nuisance into a world class festering atomic bomb armed nightmare


    Saudi Arabia
    - support for Al Qaeda no longer receiving tacit approval of Saudi leadership (something about having 150,000 US troops on their northern border, I suspect...)
    they have gone from a place where their zeolots young fly airplanes into our skyscrapers, to one where the vast majority of even their ordinary citizens HATE us because of the savagery they've observed going on in Iraq.
    Last edited by BARYE; 10/25/2005 at 04:09 PM.
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  17. #37  
    I believe it is incorrect to refer to this as Bush's foreign policy. Please refer to the actual architects of the foeign policy HERE.

    And yes, it is a colossal failure.
  18. #38  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE

    a catastophic blunder of monstrous dimension -- the direct product of ignorance disguised by arrogance




    an initial success being overcome by the derelection of resources and focus of iraq




    which it had been attempting to negotiate prior to 9/11 -- and had nothing to do with it or junior (everything to do with Quaddafi's intending to let his son inherit his "throne"



    junior's axis of evil pose ramped what had been a minor simmering nuisance into a world class festering atomic bomb armed nightmare




    they have gone from a place where their zeolot young fly airplanes into our skyscrapers, to one where the vast majority of even their ordinary citizens HATE us because of the savagery they've observed going on in Iraq.
    I offer concrete examples which you meet with platitudes completely devoid of evidence.
    Last edited by phurth; 10/25/2005 at 03:56 PM.
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  19. #39  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    I believe it is incorrect to refer to this as Bush's foreign policy. Please refer to the actual architects of the foeign policy HERE.

    And yes, it is a colossal failure.
    More platitudes and bumper-sticker-think. Maybe you have reasons to think so beyond your hatred of Bush???
    Last edited by phurth; 10/25/2005 at 03:55 PM.
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  20. #40  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE
    they have gone from a place where their zeolot young fly airplanes into our skyscrapers, to one where the vast majority of even their ordinary citizens HATE us because of the savagery they've observed going on in Iraq.
    If the Saudis or Arabs in general hate us for anything (an assertion you make with no basis) it is this:



    I can live with that.
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