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  1. #61  
    As a related aside...

    When does a lobbying group become a "special interest" versus just an interested party?

    If the Boy Scouts go to the governor and ask to help set aside some land for camping, are they a "special interest"? Is anyone who petitions the government for any consideration considered "special interest"?

    Not really looking at this particular case but I've always wondered where we draw the line between the government accommodating their citizen's requests (even corporate citizens) and "caving in" to "special interests".
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  2. NRG
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       #62  
    Quote Originally Posted by AlaskanDad
    As a related aside...

    When does a lobbying group become a "special interest" versus just an interested party?

    If the Boy Scouts go to the governor and ask to help set aside some land for camping, are they a "special interest"? Is anyone who petitions the government for any consideration considered "special interest"?

    Not really looking at this particular case but I've always wondered where we draw the line between the government accommodating their citizen's (even corporate citizens) and "caving in" to "special interests".
    When there is profit motive.
  3. #63  
    Quote Originally Posted by NRG
    When there is profit motive.
    Do you mean a reasonable profit, exorbitant profit, or ANY profit?
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  4. #64  
    Quote Originally Posted by AlaskanDad
    Do you mean a reasonable profit, exorbitant profit, or ANY profit?
    Depends who is making the judgement. For instance, NRG stands to profit from the continued lack of drilling because the price of his house will be higher than if there were "ugly" oil infrastructure somewhere out there in the ocean. However, it would be a stretch to call him an "special interest group."
  5. #65  
    Quote Originally Posted by KRamsauer
    Depends who is making the judgement. For instance, NRG stands to profit from the continued lack of drilling because the price of his house will be higher than if there were "ugly" oil infrastructure somewhere out there in the ocean. However, it would be a stretch to call him an "special interest group."
    I'm not sure profit should have anything to do with the definition. I got to thinking that the non-profit women's clinics and their non-profit anti-abortion critics are both considered "special interests".

    I guess we've just gotten used to "special interest" as a derogatory name for any group that we don't agree with. We're all "special interest"... ... just not to ourselves.
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  6. NRG
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       #66  
    Quote Originally Posted by AlaskanDad
    Do you mean a reasonable profit, exorbitant profit, or ANY profit?
    One is interested in the greater of mankind, one is interested in company profit. If you need to read a little more, and I suggest you do you can go here.
  7. NRG
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       #67  
    Quote Originally Posted by KRamsauer
    Depends who is making the judgement. For instance, NRG stands to profit from the continued lack of drilling because the price of his house will be higher than if there were "ugly" oil infrastructure somewhere out there in the ocean. However, it would be a stretch to call him an "special interest group."
    I really don't stand to profit from it. Those things are going to be far enough out where I won't see it, but the eviromental impact were there to be an accident would be felt up and down the coast.
  8. #68  
    Quote Originally Posted by NRG
    Same goes for you, would you like a refinery in your backyard? Would you want your beaches destroyed from oil?
    I don't consider 125 miles offshore- or even 25 miles offshore- to be "in my backyard." If you drive a car and consume fossil fuels you've got to be prepared to swallow some risk and potential environmental decrement. By and large, offshore oil rigs are safe and cause few environmental disasters relative to the voluminous amount of oil being produced from them.
  9. #69  
    Quote Originally Posted by mrthomasfritz
    Pukes like you should be washed out to sea!
    Dude, can't we have a discourse here without resorting to personal invectives? Let's raise the bar just a bit
  10. NRG
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       #70  
    Quote Originally Posted by Gasmeister
    I don't consider 125 miles offshore- or even 25 miles offshore- to be "in my backyard." If you drive a car and consume fossil fuels you've got to be prepared to swallow some risk and potential environmental decrement. By and large, offshore oil rigs are safe and cause few environmental disasters relative to the voluminous amount of oil being produced from them.
    Agreed, to some extent. I have no problem with paying for a higher price gas product. As long as it is not off the Florida coast. There are more problems then just mine, which are enviro concerns. There is what FL's economy is based on, tourism. One spill and all that comes to an end. The risks are just too great.
  11. #71  
    Quote Originally Posted by NRG
    One is interested in the greater of mankind, one is interested in company profit. If you need to read a little more, and I suggest you do you can go here.
    Thanks for the read. It seems to agree with my sentiment: If you don't believe they serve the "public" interest, then they are "special" in your eyes.
    The blanket slogan 'special interest' is used for all of these variants, but never to describe friends: Use of that term, especially in the United States, implies that the "special" interest is not the "public" interest. Many scholars dislike the term special interest, since it carries this loaded, negative connotation.

    Among other things, it presumes that we know exactly what the general interest (or public interest) is. Some use vested interests or particularistic groups., but in academic literature, these have been replaced by interest group.
    Could anyone argue that more domestic oil production is in the American public's interest? Would the answer change if the company were producing this oil at cost with 0% profit? 10%, 20%?
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       #72  
    Quote Originally Posted by Gasmeister
    I don't consider 125 miles offshore- or even 25 miles offshore- to be "in my backyard." If you drive a car and consume fossil fuels you've got to be prepared to swallow some risk and potential environmental decrement. By and large, offshore oil rigs are safe and cause few environmental disasters relative to the voluminous amount of oil being produced from them.
    125 miles is called the middle grounds, one of the premeir grouper and sports fishing spots on the Florida gulf coast.
  13. NRG
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       #73  
    Quote Originally Posted by AlaskanDad
    Thanks for the read. It seems to agree with my sentiment: If you don't believe they serve the "public" interest, then they are "special" in your eyes.


    Could anyone argue that more domestic oil production is in the American public's interest? Would the answer change if the company were producing this oil at cost with 0% profit? 10%, 20%?
    We could argue the flip of this as well, less oil production which would lead to less oil cosumption is in the public interest. Just playin' Dev's advocate.
  14. #74  
    Quote Originally Posted by NRG
    I bought a BMW for the sheer fact that they were the leaders in Hydrogen powered vehicles. I figured if my money is going to go towards the refinement of hydrogen powered cars then I feel this company deserves my money.
    Damn, NRG, I bought a BMW because it's an amazingly well-built automobile, it's a kick to drive and I love the way it looks! Now that I know the business about H2 fuel research I can assuage a smidgeon of guilt!!
  15. #75  
    Quote Originally Posted by NRG
    Agreed, to some extent. I have no problem with paying for a higher price gas product. As long as it is not off the Florida coast. There are more problems then just mine, which are enviro concerns. There is what FL's economy is based on, tourism. One spill and all that comes to an end. The risks are just too great.
    Realistically speaking, just what are the risks here? I've read that the majority of oil spills come from fixed facilities and pipelines rather than freighters. http://response.restoration.noaa.gov/topic_subtopic_entry.php?RECORD_KEY%28entry_subtopic_topic%29=entry_id,subtopic_id,topic_id&entry_id (entry_subtopic_topic)=325&subtopic_id(entry_subtopic_topic)=2&topic_id(entry_subtopic_topic)=1
    What happens if an offshore oil rig has a leak? I don't recall hearing of any of them not being contained at sea and making it to shore. The shore tainting spills have been from the least-frequent but highest volume freighters. You have had freighters offshore for many years (although the Gulf of Mexico has the largest number of spills in the world since 1960).

    Why would we think that another offshore rig would be any danger to your coastline if they haven't been one to other coastlines?

    Plus, there is plenty of data showing how these rigs really improve offshore fishing of game fish!
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  16. #76  
    Quote Originally Posted by NRG
    We could argue the flip of this as well, less oil production which would lead to less oil cosumption is in the public interest. Just playin' Dev's advocate.
    I appreciate your point but can you show an example where a decrease in supply decreased demand as well?
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  17. NRG
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       #77  
    Quote Originally Posted by AlaskanDad
    I appreciate your point but can you show an example where a decrease in supply decreased demand as well?
    Here ya go.

    Source: Yahoo!

    Oil Hits Two-Month Low on Falling Demand

    -snip-

    The price of oil fell to its lowest level in two months on Wednesday as evidence builds that the high cost of gasoline and other fuels is sapping demand.

    New data from the Energy Department show that fuel consumption over the past month declined by almost 3 percent compared with last year. Analysts attributed the trend to soaring pump prices and a slowdown in economic activity, particularly among Gulf Coast states that were affected by Hurricanes Katrina and Rita.

    -snip-
  18. NRG
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       #78  
    Quote Originally Posted by Gasmeister
    Damn, NRG, I bought a BMW because it's an amazingly well-built automobile, it's a kick to drive and I love the way it looks! Now that I know the business about H2 fuel research I can assuage a smidgeon of guilt!!
    Yeah, I agree they are very well built cars. I was interested a plethora of other German cars but the H2 bit pushed me towards the BMW.
  19. #79  
    Quote Originally Posted by NRG
    I really don't stand to profit from it. Those things are going to be far enough out where I won't see it, but the eviromental impact were there to be an accident would be felt up and down the coast.
    Which would reduce the value of your house. If you were truly interested in the environment, you'd oppose drilling everywhere, not just in your backyard.
  20. #80  
    Quote Originally Posted by NRG
    There are more problems then just mine, which are enviro concerns. There is what FL's economy is based on, tourism. One spill and all that comes to an end. The risks are just too great.
    That's not true at all, and you know it. Besides, what's the biggest draw in Florida? Orlando, I think. That would require one heck of a spill.
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