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  1. NRG
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       #41  
    Quote Originally Posted by phurth
    I sympathize with you. Everyone seems to recognize we are dependant on oil to meet our energy needs. The only currently existing practical alternative is nuclear. A large portion of our population will never accept this, irrationally, IMO - Japan has a vigorous nuclear program with an excellent safety record, for example. Ironically, environmentalists lead the opposition to nuclear power.

    Other alternatives to oil suffer from the significant disadvantage of having not yet been invented.
    I have got a nuc palnt just up the road from me, doesn't bother me, well maybe a little. But Nuc is rather safe compared to the coal plants that produce mercury, again getting in the fish then on up the food chain.

    I was thinking more along the lines of ethanol.
  2. #42  
    Quote Originally Posted by aprasad
    Hydrogen is not a SOURCE of energy. It requires energy to produce Hydrogen. Hydrogen is a means of transporting energy.

    Even known nuclear fuel will run out in a few hundred years. Then what? Anyone know of nearby planets to colonize?
    Ridiculous answer !


    Hydrogen is a renewable source and is the last hope.


    Hydrogen

    Hydrogen (H2) will play an important role in developing sustainable transportation in the United States, because in the future it may be produced in virtually unlimited quantities using renewable resources. Hydrogen has been used effectively in a number of internal combustion engine vehicles as pure hydrogen mixed with natural gas. For more information on this fuel blend, see the hydrogen/natural gas blend site.

    In addition, hydrogen is used in a growing number of demonstration fuel cell vehicles. Hydrogen and oxygen from air fed into a proton exchange membrane (PEM) fuel cell "stack" produce enough electricity to power an electric automobile, without producing harmful emissions. For more information, see our fuel cell vehicles pages.
  3. NRG
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       #43  
    Quote Originally Posted by dlbrummels
    Hydrogen is a renewable source and is the last hope.


    Hydrogen

    Hydrogen (H2) will play an important role in developing sustainable transportation in the United States, because in the future it may be produced in virtually unlimited quantities using renewable resources. Hydrogen has been used effectively in a number of internal combustion engine vehicles as pure hydrogen mixed with natural gas. For more information on this fuel blend, see the hydrogen/natural gas blend site.

    In addition, hydrogen is used in a growing number of demonstration fuel cell vehicles. Hydrogen and oxygen from air fed into a proton exchange membrane (PEM) fuel cell "stack" produce enough electricity to power an electric automobile, without producing harmful emissions. For more information, see our fuel cell vehicles pages.

    Damn you whipped that quick. It takes me quite a while to 'craft' a post like yours. LOL
  4. #44  
    It is time to end the petroleum nightmare !
  5. #45  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    3 days a week I bicycle to work (year round) and 2 days a week on the bus.

    I don't expect people to bicycle, and I realize most people consider the bus ghetto which they often are, particularly in non-urban areas, BUT people could AT LEAST carpool one or two days a week! That would make a huge impact!

    Good for you! Youre lucky you can bike to work in Seattle. Most folks arent so lucky as to live within biking distance. The climate helps there too. Over here on the east side of the state our winters are abit worse. I bet youre in better shape too, .
    If I actually worked at only one place I'd ride the bus. I think it's kinda fun.


    *Always freaks me out when Thomas and I are on the same side, even for a second.
    “There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.”
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  6. #46  
    I was thinking more along the lines of ethanol.
    Ethanol is a terrible auto fuel. It's dirtier burning than gas and takes more to get the same energy output.

    Hydrogen would be great - IF we could find a way to make it that doesn't take nearly as much energy as burning it produces.
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  7. #47  
    There are ways of producing hydrogen that aren't that costly.
  8. NRG
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       #48  
    Quote Originally Posted by phurth
    Ethanol is a terrible auto fuel. It's dirtier burning than gas and takes more to get the same energy output
    I've read otherwise could you please cite so I can read it.
  9. #49  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    This country needs an intervention and badly. I sit in morning traffic and look at all the idots sitting alone in their escalades when gas is $3 a gallon and I am just amazed.

    It's sad really.
    Hehehe. If you can sit in your car, in traffic, and feel amazed, I'm happy for you. We need more amazed people and fewer raging people!
  10. #50  
    Quote Originally Posted by NRG
    No they are planning on putting something in my backyard that will at some point wash up on MY shore.
    You own the coastline? I thought it was the state's, and thus the state's to deal with.
    I can understand your feelings. I would be upset too. However, you must realize that your individual opinion counts for nothing (just like mine). If the coastline is that special, team up with your neighbors and buy the offshore leases. Otherwise, let them go to people who value them most...
  11. #51  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    3 days a week I bicycle to work (year round) and 2 days a week on the bus.

    I don't expect people to bicycle, and I realize most people consider the bus ghetto which they often are, particularly in non-urban areas, BUT people could AT LEAST carpool one or two days a week! That would make a huge impact!
    I personally would love to take the bus. Problem is it isn't convenient and it isn't running when I leave work (after midnight usually, 4:30 last night). I figure my 2 mile commute isn't that wasteful, and it certainly isn't expensive. However, I would love to settle into a nice coach seat and read the paper in the morning instead of having to pay attention to where I'm going. :-)
  12. NRG
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       #52  
    Quote Originally Posted by KRamsauer
    You own the coastline? I thought it was the state's, and thus the state's to deal with.
    I can understand your feelings. I would be upset too. However, you must realize that your individual opinion counts for nothing (just like mine). If the coastline is that special, team up with your neighbors and buy the offshore leases. Otherwise, let them go to people who value them most...
    I have a feeling they will have to petition most of the folks who live along the coast then go from there. No fail every year we get folks coming by knocking on our doors asking us to support drilling off the coast and no fail we reject it. It has been like this for...........geez 20 years now, every year they come, every year they don't get enough supporters. I am a little scared though that the people in FL will not be represented by their elected reps. and Big Oil instead will be represented.
  13. NRG
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       #53  
    Quote Originally Posted by KRamsauer
    You own the coastline? I thought it was the state's, and thus the state's to deal with.
    I can understand your feelings. I would be upset too. However, you must realize that your individual opinion counts for nothing (just like mine). If the coastline is that special, team up with your neighbors and buy the offshore leases. Otherwise, let them go to people who value them most...
    Not a bad Idea to buy the leases.
  14. #54  
    Quote Originally Posted by NRG
    I have a feeling they will have to petition most of the folks who live along the coast then go from there. No fail every year we get folks coming by knocking on our doors asking us to support drilling off the coast and no fail we reject it. It has been like this for...........geez 20 years now, every year they come, every year they don't get enough supporters. I am a little scared though that the people in FL will not be represented by their elected reps. and Big Oil instead will be represented.
    So now it's something you have to be petitioned for and agree on before it happens? You made it sound like it was a done deal. Talk about getting your panties in a knot prematurely. If it's got you so worked up why do you be proactive and get all the neighbors to saign a petition against before anything else happens? Or do you just like to whine?
    “There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.”
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    "A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have."- Thomas Jefferson
  15. #55  
    Quote Originally Posted by dlbrummels
    Ridiculous answer !


    Hydrogen is a renewable source and is the last hope.
    From the link you posted:

    How is Hydrogen Made?


    Today the two most common methods used to produce hydrogen are:

    * steam reforming of natural gas
    * electrolysis of water.

    The predominant method for producing synthesis gas is steam reforming of natural gas, although other hydrocarbons can be used as feedstocks. For example, biomass and coal can be gasified and used in a steam reforming process to create hydrogen.

    Electrolysis uses electrical energy to split water molecules into hydrogen and oxygen. The electrical energy can come from any electricity production source including renewable fuels.

    Learn more about hydrogen production methods from the Hydrogen, Fuel Cells, and Infrastructure Technologies Program Web site's Hydrogen Basics page.
    ----------------------

    Which of these methods produces H2 without a net expenditure of energy? If you are thinking of using renewable sources of energy (Wind, geothermal etc) to produce H2, forget it. There isn't enough of it out there to meet the planet's energy needs.

    The best H2 can do is make the generation of energy at a more controlled source, less polluting (at the plants producing H2). Then, H2 needs to be transported and converted back to energy by direct combustion or fuel cells. This is more efficient and non-polluting at the location where H2 is being converted back to energy.

    Bottom like: You need energy to produce H2. After transportation and reconversion back to energy, you'll have a net loss of energy. Otherwise, one can build a perpetual source of energy machine ((Use H2 to make more H2))..violating the 3rd law of thermodynamics.

    That's why I said .. H2 is a way of transporting energy, not a way of producing energy.
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  16. NRG
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       #56  
    Quote Originally Posted by Woof
    So now it's something you have to be petitioned for and agree on before it happens? You made it sound like it was a done deal. Talk about getting your panties in a knot prematurely. If it's got you so worked up why do you be proactive and get all the neighbors to saign a petition against before anything else happens? Or do you just like to whine?
    I like to belly ache a bit, but not without merit. If you read the whole article you would see where this issue is at right now.

    Rest assured I am being pro-active. It is not that is a done deal but with the Govs. support it does not help the matter and outlines the problems with our govenments these days, special interest. If one FL elected rep comes out in support of this I will be sure to lead an opposition, a fierce opposition at that too. Hence the reason for this thread. This thread is here to make folks aware what is going on. If one Gulf Coast resident reads this and agrees with me then this thread has done it's job.
    Last edited by NRG; 10/05/2005 at 01:46 PM.
  17. #57  
    Money is the motivatiog factor behind the decisions made in this country not the welfare of the people who live in it. There are a lot of things that i feel could have been done by now with energy conservation, the field of medicine, and in the inner cities, just to name a few.
    If it means spending money or better yet if it means a cut in some industries paycheck then it is not going to happen without SIGNIFICANT and CONSTANT protest from a large percentage of citizens who oppose the situation. Change only happens through radical actions (radical... not irresponsible).

    The real prolbem is that most people do not give a damn until it ACTUALLY "comes to THEIR coast" or affects them personally.
    Basically....
    The majority of the people in this country are selfish.
    But it is the way we are socialized.
  18. #58  
    Here's one citation regarding ethanol:

    http://www.courier-journal.com/apps/...plate=printart

    More later when I'm not mobile...
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  19. NRG
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       #59  
    Quote Originally Posted by Longstrider
    Money is the motivatiog factor behind the decisions made in this country not the welfare of the people who live in it. There are a lot of things that i feel could have been done by now with energy conservation, the field of medicine, and in the inner cities, just to name a few.
    If it means spending money or better yet if it means a cut in some industries paycheck then it is not going to happen without SIGNIFICANT and CONSTANT protest from a large percentage of citizens who oppose the situation. Change only happens through radical actions (radical... not irresponsible).

    The real prolbem is that most people do not give a damn until it ACTUALLY "comes to THEIR coast" or affects them personally.
    Basically....
    The majority of the people in this country are selfish.
    But it is the way we are socialized.
    I have always believed in keeping oil drilling away from the FL coast, since I was 8. I bought a BMW for the sheer fact that they were the leaders in Hydrogen powered vehicles. I figured if my money is going to go towards the refinement of hydrogen powered cars then I feel this company deserves my money. Same goes for my choice on what printing company prints my mag, I made sure they used recycled paper. The printers who use the higher recycled content paper get my business.
  20. NRG
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       #60  
    Quote Originally Posted by phurth
    Here's one citation regarding ethanol:

    http://www.courier-journal.com/apps/...plate=printart

    More later when I'm not mobile...
    Wow, I am amazed you were able to pull of a cite while on the Treo. Thanks for the read.
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