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  1.    #1  
    "I'm happy you left," said Rep. Christopher Shays, R-Conn. "That kind of look in the lights like a deer tells me you weren't capable of doing that job."

    Ex-FEMA Director Brown Blames Others

    I am SOOOO glad someone is finally calling this guy on the fact that was an incompetent poo-head! I've seen the "good old boy network" waste time in private industry by placing people in jobs they can't do and this is a prime example of the public sector doing the same.
  2. cardio's Avatar
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    #2  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    "I'm happy you left," said Rep. Christopher Shays, R-Conn. "That kind of look in the lights like a deer tells me you weren't capable of doing that job."

    Ex-FEMA Director Brown Blames Others

    I am SOOOO glad someone is finally calling this guy on the fact that was an incompetent poo-head! I've seen the "good old boy network" waste time in private industry by placing people in jobs they can't do and this is a prime example of the public sector doing the same.
    Agreed, now if someone would hand the media, mayor and police chief theirs

    Some Reports of N.O. Violence Exaggerated

    On Sept. 1, with desperate Hurricane Katrina evacuees crammed into the convention center, Police Chief Eddie Compass reported: "We have individuals who are getting raped; we have individuals who are getting beaten."

    Five days later, he told Oprah Winfrey that babies were being raped. On the same show, Mayor Ray Nagin warned: "They have people standing out there, have been in that frickin' Superdome for five days watching dead bodies, watching hooligans killing people, raping people."

    The ugliest reports _ children with slit throats, women dragged off and raped, corpses piling up in the basement _ soon became a searing image of post-Katrina New Orleans.

    The stories were told by residents trapped inside the Superdome and convention center and were repeated by public officials. Many news organizations, including The Associated Press, carried the witness accounts and official pronouncements, and in some cases later repeated the claims as fact, without attribution.

    But now, a month after the chaos subsided, police are re-examining the reports and finding that many of them have little or no basis in fact


    http://www.breitbart.com/news/2005/09/27/D8CSOHS80.html
  3.    #3  
    Quote Originally Posted by cardio
    Agreed, now if someone would hand the media, mayor and police chief theirs

    Some Reports of N.O. Violence Exaggerated

    On Sept. 1, with desperate Hurricane Katrina evacuees crammed into the convention center, Police Chief Eddie Compass reported: "We have individuals who are getting raped; we have individuals who are getting beaten."

    Five days later, he told Oprah Winfrey that babies were being raped. On the same show, Mayor Ray Nagin warned: "They have people standing out there, have been in that frickin' Superdome for five days watching dead bodies, watching hooligans killing people, raping people."

    The ugliest reports _ children with slit throats, women dragged off and raped, corpses piling up in the basement _ soon became a searing image of post-Katrina New Orleans.

    The stories were told by residents trapped inside the Superdome and convention center and were repeated by public officials. Many news organizations, including The Associated Press, carried the witness accounts and official pronouncements, and in some cases later repeated the claims as fact, without attribution.

    But now, a month after the chaos subsided, police are re-examining the reports and finding that many of them have little or no basis in fact


    http://www.breitbart.com/news/2005/09/27/D8CSOHS80.html
    Yea, I'm sure "thunder-dome" was a wonderful place.
  4. cardio's Avatar
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    #4  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    Yea, I'm sure "thunder-dome" was a wonderful place.
    Read the report dude. Look at all the stuff they were saying to the national audience that simply did not happen. Media sensationalism.
  5. #5  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    [B]I am SOOOO glad someone is finally calling this guy on the fact that was an incompetent poo-head! I've seen the "good old boy network" waste time in private industry by placing people in jobs they can't do and this is a prime example of the public sector doing the same.
    You have to admit though, if they guy is not doing a good job, sometimes its difficult to affect the type of change you want and still give him the support he needs to do the job during the emergency. It's a fine line and a judgment call on when you pull the plug on someone that you put in that position. You obviously would have done it sooner (I may have too...or at least took back the reins if you will).
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  6.    #6  
    Quote Originally Posted by cardio
    Read the report dude. Look at all the stuff they were saying to the national audience that simply did not happen. Media sensationalism.
    I hardly call quoting public officials sensationalism. And I can hardly blame the locazl officials for being emotional about the situation given the number of days that passed with no outside help.

    You look at the video of those english tourists who were in the "thunder dome" and look at the fear in their faces and that's wasn't even 24 hours.
  7. cardio's Avatar
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    #7  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    I hardly call quoting public officials sensationalism. And I can hardly blame the locazl officials for being emotional about the situation given the number of days that passed with no outside help.

    You look at the video of those english tourists who were in the "thunder dome" and look at the fear in their faces and that's wasn't even 24 hours.
    Call it what you will, we all know sensationalism sells, just like you like to use "thunder dome" to attract attention. The mayor was on Oprah making false statements, regardless of "repeating what his advisors told him". I seem to remember you bashing a federal official for repeating what his advisor told him.

    Well, I guess the police superintendent is getting his handed to him also

    Leader of New Orleans Police Resigns
    Sep 27 3:54 PM US/Eastern


    By JULIA SILVERMAN
    Associated Press Writer


    NEW ORLEANS


    Police Superintendent Eddie Compass resigned Tuesday after four turbulent weeks in which the police force came under fire for its conduct in Hurricane Katrina's aftermath

    http://www.breitbart.com/news/2005/09/27/D8CSQ6V8H.html
  8. #8  
    I was driving and listening to CNN on satellite reporting on this as well. They also included a story of a guy who heard the new reports of over 200 dead bodies at the Dome and drove his own refrig semi truck several hundred miles on his own time and dime to help with all the bodies that were reported to be stacked in the basement. When he got there, no one knew what he was talking about. There were only 6 bodies. 2 natural causes, 1 overdose, 1 suicide, and something else. They had to turn away his help because it was not needed because the new reports were false.
    Last edited by HobbesIsReal; 09/27/2005 at 05:12 PM.
  9. #9  
    I pointed out during the unwieldy Katrina discussion that some of these reports were being exaggerated - and had to go to foreign media to find such a story.

    I don't know what wider point it makes... but a lot of people found it a bit too easy to believe that after just a few days, a group of largely African-American citizens turned savage, committing every kind of atrocity from the rape and murder of small children to cannibalism for God's sake. That these accounts were so uncritically accepted by the media and many consumers of the media is cause for, minimally, a certain amount of introspection, one would think.
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  10. cardio's Avatar
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    #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by HobbesIsReal
    I was driving and listening to CNN on satellite reporting on this as well. They also included a story of a guy who heard the new reports of over 200 dead bodies at the Dome and drove his own refrig semi truck several hundred miles on his own time and dime to help with all the bodies that were reported to be stacked in the basement. When he got there, no one knew what he was talking about. There were only 6 bodies. 2 natural causes, 1 overdose, 1 suicide, and something else. They had to turn away his help because it was needed because the new reports were false.
    One report says that there are only 4 murders being investigated in NO during that time frame. All 4 were young men who had been shot. Nothing like the tens of thousands killed with rampant murders and crimes like was being reported.
  11. cardio's Avatar
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    #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by phurth
    I pointed out during the unwieldy Katrina discussion that some of these reports were being exaggerated - and had to go to foreign media to find such a story.

    I don't know what wider point it makes... but a lot of people found it a bit too easy to believe that after just a few days, a group of largely African-American citizens turned savage, committing every kind of atrocity from the rape and murder of small children to cannibalism for God's sake. That these accounts were so uncritically accepted by the media and many consumers of the media is cause for, minimally, a certain amount of introspection, one would think.
    The vastly exaggerated story made it really easy for people to play the political party card and/or the race card. Look at how little news coverage Rita received compared to Katrina, I am sure a lot if it had to do with no sensational story to report. There was a lot of damage to property and some deaths, but no way to really exaggerate the situation like Katrina.
  12.    #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by cardio
    Call it what you will, we all know sensationalism sells, just like you like to use "thunder dome" to attract attention. The mayor was on Oprah making false statements, regardless of "repeating what his advisors told him". I seem to remember you bashing a federal official for repeating what his advisor told him.

    Well, I guess the police superintendent is getting his handed to him also

    Leader of New Orleans Police Resigns
    Sep 27 3:54 PM US/Eastern


    By JULIA SILVERMAN
    Associated Press Writer


    NEW ORLEANS


    Police Superintendent Eddie Compass resigned Tuesday after four turbulent weeks in which the police force came under fire for its conduct in Hurricane Katrina's aftermath

    http://www.breitbart.com/news/2005/09/27/D8CSQ6V8H.html

    Why are you characterizing this like the man was asked to resign? ("I guess the police superintendent is getting his handed to him also")
  13. #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    "I'm happy you left," said Rep. Christopher Shays, R-Conn. "That kind of look in the lights like a deer tells me you weren't capable of doing that job."

    Ex-FEMA Director Brown Blames Others

    I am SOOOO glad someone is finally calling this guy on the fact that was an incompetent poo-head! I've seen the "good old boy network" waste time in private industry by placing people in jobs they can't do and this is a prime example of the public sector doing the same.

    Seems to me that the state and local government's were really at fault, not mandating evacuations before it hit. The top dog is always an easy target.
  14. cardio's Avatar
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    #14  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    Why are you characterizing this like the man was asked to resign? ("I guess the police superintendent is getting his handed to him also")
    No different than your good friend Michael Brown who also resigned during the difficult times he is facing post Katrina. Look at the similarities

    Brown - Less than optimal response to emergency situation
    Compass - Less than optimal response to emergency situation

    Brown - responsible for federal portion of emergency
    Compass - respnsible for local police portion of emergency

    Brown - Faced criticism for his handeling on Katrina
    Compass - Faced criticism for his handeling on Katrina

    Brown - His boss said he is doing a heck of a job
    Compass - His boss said a sad day when a hero makes this decsion

    Brown - Resigned due to outside pressure
    Compass Resigned due to outside pressure

    Major difference seems to be who their boss happens to be.
  15. #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by ttrundle
    Seems to me that the state and local government's were really at fault, not mandating evacuations before it hit. The top dog is always an easy target.
    I found this interesting.....and cannot help to wonder at what level my own community is prepared to act on their own plans in the face of a disaster:

    .......the New Orleans comprehensive hurricane disaster plan. The plan exists on line and has a high level of detail, and yet the Exempt Media has given no coverage of its contents. The most obvious reason is that it shows that New Orleans and the state of Louisiana didn't follow their own plan.

    --------

    In short, Mayor Nagin had the responsibility not just for the declaration of evacuation, but to have a plan ready to handle its implementation. As noted repeatedly, the only actions Nagin took was to call a press conference and ready the Superdome for refugees. Those with personal transportation available hit the roads and got out of the way. Those unable to move themselves, either from poverty or infirmity, got left behind. Why? Nagin had a responsibility under this SOP to have a plan and to implement it.

    The document then goes on to discuss exactly how to conduct an evacuation of the city. It delineates several tasks for the city government, which it notes in section III-A is solely the responsibility of the city government. This makes perfect sense; in a potential catastrophe, one cannot rely on outside help that might have long-term difficulties in reaching the city, especially one with the geographical obstacles of New Orleans.

    New Orleans established a time line for evacuations:

    Evacuation notices or orders will be issued during three stages prior to gale force winds making landfall.

    > Precautionary Evacuation Notice: 72 hours or less

    > Special Needs Evacuation Order: 8-12 hours after Precautionary Evacuation Notice issued

    > General Evacuation Notice: 48 hours or less

    The mandatory evacuation order came a little less than 48 hours before the storm made landfall, but well past 48 hours before the levees broke. Further, the precautionary evac notice came about 96 hours before landfall, and the mayor only upped that to a general evac after George Bush exhorted the mayor and Governor Blanco to do so. (Notice that Bush could not, himself, give such an order; he has no authority to do so.)

    Section III-B-V lists the tasks assigned to the various city government offices in the event of a hurricane catastrophe. The Mayor has three tasks: to initiate the evacuation, to retain overall control of the emergency operation, and then to authorize a return to the evacuated areas.

    ---------------

    So the failure to order the buses out of their yards wasn't some failure of imagination on the part of Nagin and New Orleans. It isn't a case of the city not understanding the scale of what a Cat-4 storm could do to the city. According to New Orleans' own emergency plan, those buses should have rolled at least as soon as the mandatory evacuation order was given on Saturday, if not when the voluntary evac order came earlier. The city's OEP failed to carry out this crucial part of the emergency-response plan, which is why so many of the poor, infirm, and just plain stubborn citizens got stranded when the levees broke.

    ------------------

    The following schools have been inspected and approved as Hurricane Evacuation Shelters for the City of New Orleans: Laurel Elementary School

    Walter S. Cohen High School

    Medard Nelson Elementary School

    Sarah T. Reed High School

    Southern University Multi Purpose Center

    Southern University New Science Building

    O. Perry Walker High School

    Albert Wicker Elementary School

    Did these shelters remain open, and did they have the resources on hand to provide food and water for 100,000 people? Did the decision to select these locations take into account the probability of massive flooding due to potential levee failure? Most importantly, if the Superdome had no plan for sheltering citizens during a general evacuation order -- and apparently had no provisions to do so -- why did New Orleans stack its citizens like cattle there during the early hours of the hurricane?

    Many people have jumped to the conclusion that because the response in New Orleans has produced such a bad result, the underlying reason must have been a lack of planning. Had this document been followed and the city trained to react in accordance to it, it would have produced a far different result than what we see today. How often did city officials review this plan? Did they train to it, as required in the first section? When was the last time they ran drills against this plan?

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  16. cardio's Avatar
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    #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by HobbesIsReal
    I found this interesting.....and cannot help to wonder at what level my own community is prepared to act on their own plans in the face of a disaster:
    You have opened a can of worms
  17.    #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by ttrundle
    Seems to me that the state and local government's were really at fault, not mandating evacuations before it hit. The top dog is always an easy target.
    "Mandatory evacuation of New Orleans had been ordered by mayor Ray Nagin before the hurricane struck, on August 28."

    And realize that the criticism is not that the larger gov't failed to avoid the situation. The criticism is that they were so incredibly SLOW to come to the smaller agencies aid.

    And criticising the press for repeating exaggerations may be somewhat justified, HOWEVER, I haven't seen our nations media do their job this well in years. I saw reporters on the ground for DAYS documenting the plight of the people of the devastated area, which to their credit outraged the nation into both demanding federal action AND digging into their pockets to donate AND volunteering. So don't you go schmeering a good thing.
  18. cardio's Avatar
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    #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    "Mandatory evacuation of New Orleans had been ordered by mayor Ray Nagin before the hurricane struck, on August 28."

    And realize that the criticism is not that the larger gov't failed to avoid the situation. The criticism is that they were so incredibly SLOW to come to the smaller agencies aid.

    And criticising the press for repeating exaggerations may be somewhat justified, HOWEVER, I haven't seen our nations media do their job this well in years. I saw reporters on the ground for DAYS documenting the plight of the people of the devastated area, which to their credit outraged the nation into both demanding federal action AND digging into their pockets to donate AND volunteering. So don't you go schmeering a good thing.
    We have beat the issue of failure to implement evacuation plan vs slow federal rsponse to death. It is just now coming to light the poor job the media did in reporting facts vs repeating anything they thought would sell a paper or put their story on TV. Their job is to report facts which they did a poor job of.
  19.    #19  
    Quote Originally Posted by cardio
    No different than your good friend Michael Brown who also resigned during the difficult times he is facing post Katrina. Look at the similarities

    Brown - Less than optimal response to emergency situation
    Compass - Less than optimal response to emergency situation

    Brown - responsible for federal portion of emergency
    Compass - respnsible for local police portion of emergency

    Brown - Faced criticism for his handeling on Katrina
    Compass - Faced criticism for his handeling on Katrina

    Brown - His boss said he is doing a heck of a job
    Compass - His boss said a sad day when a hero makes this decsion

    Brown - Resigned due to outside pressure
    Compass Resigned due to outside pressure

    Major difference seems to be who their boss happens to be.

    Wow! One guy holds together an understaffed and emotionally devastated police force through a natural disaster and the other says in a TV interview that he wasn't aware of thousands of people in the superdome for days and you feel those are equal efforts?

    Wow! What color is the sky in your world?
  20. #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas

    Wow! What color is the sky in your world?
    Depending on what state you live in, either Red or Blue.
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