Page 7 of 29 FirstFirst ... 2345678910111217 ... LastLast
Results 121 to 140 of 566
  1. #121  
    Quote Originally Posted by naivete
    It's probably not the only thing, but it's crucial.
    Youre kidding right?

    Quote Originally Posted by cardio
    Well, we will have to agree to disagree. I think if you are going to claim the statement one nation under god violates the constitution because it references the belief in a religion you should use that as your principle in all areas and not pick and choose for simplification of life.
    The two arent the same though. One is a clear expression of religion, one is not.
    iPhone in the Washington DC area.
  2. #122  
    Quote Originally Posted by cardio
    But, by just changing the words to winter soltice and taking the day off you support christmas as a legit holiday. That is no different than people who do not celebrate halloween because of the pervieved wickedness and instead go to harvest festival at church, they still celebrate the same day, the same time, they justify it by changing the name.

    By accepting the generally accepted time standard you recognize that Jesus Christ was so important that the entire calendar revolves around the year of His birth.
    Yea, NOT. If you examine the origins of the calendar it's not based on the exact time of death of the person refeerred to as jeebus. The terms come from the fact that religious/gov't leaders made the measures and hus the names.

    And given the number of winter holidays both religious and not religious, it would be moronic for the handful of gov't workers that did not embrace those beliefs to go to work. So it makes sense just to have a winter holiday for all.
  3. #123  
    Quote Originally Posted by cardio
    They can be lead, they can not be forced. Big difference
    Being lead by a gov't institution is the endorsement of a religion by gov't. Jeebus dude it's not that hard to grasp.
  4. cardio's Avatar
    Posts
    779 Posts
    Global Posts
    787 Global Posts
    #124  
    Quote Originally Posted by AnteL0pe
    Youre kidding right?


    The two arent the same though. One is a clear expression of religion, one is not.
    You are right, Christmas (celebrated on the 25th of Dec.) is a clear expression on the birth of Jesus Christ, the central figure in Christianity. It does not matter what term is applied to the day, the gov't of this nation has declared it a national holiday to celebrate His birth.
  5. naivete's Avatar
    Posts
    636 Posts
    Global Posts
    640 Global Posts
    #125  
    Quote Originally Posted by cardio
    They can be lead, they can not be forced. Big difference
    Yes. No one will suspend a student for not saying "under god", so the student is not forced or coerced.
  6. santas's Avatar
    Posts
    624 Posts
    Global Posts
    641 Global Posts
    #126  
    Quote Originally Posted by cardio
    Our constitution gives them the freedom to say there is no god, that Allah is god, that Buddah is god, that there is an unkown god, and under god. If someone wants to pledge allegiance to the flag without saying under god, go for it, if someone does not want to pledge allegiance to the flag of the united states because they are not a citizen, don't recite it. It is not mandatory.
    Not mandatory, but it is a school activity being led by the school leaders. Not participating leads to a feeling of exclusion. Remember - these are kids not loud mouth adults like us.
    Less than 400 posts to get my own little treo icon!
  7. cardio's Avatar
    Posts
    779 Posts
    Global Posts
    787 Global Posts
    #127  
    Quote Originally Posted by santa
    Not mandatory, but it is a school activity being led by the school leaders. Not participating leads to a feeling of exclusion. Remember - these are kids not loud mouth adults like us.
    Actually, the public schools my children attend have volunteers from the class lead in the recital of the pledge. There are children who do not stand for the pledge and do not appear to have any issues with exclusion, one of them is the class leader/president.
  8. naivete's Avatar
    Posts
    636 Posts
    Global Posts
    640 Global Posts
    #128  
    Quote Originally Posted by AnteL0pe
    People would be up in arms in the Govt put out a version saying "one nation, under Satan" because that alienates citizens and infringes on their rights. The same is the case when it says "under god"
    But that doesn't show to others that we value religious expression. It only goes to show that we have a little devil among us.

    Here. If you can actually get that into the pledge, I'll practice self discretion by not say "under satan", but I doubt it's popular. Who wants to be rule by a liittle devil?
  9. #129  
    Quote Originally Posted by cardio
    You are right, Christmas (celebrated on the 25th of Dec.) is a clear expression on the birth of Jesus Christ, the central figure in Christianity. It does not matter what term is applied to the day, the gov't of this nation has declared it a national holiday to celebrate His birth.
    Actually according to the federal government the holiday from work is to be 26th. Clearly showing that it is not a strict "Christmas" day off, but simply a day off work. It seems like we're arguing the wrong sides here, but if you want I'll accept your point and say that the Govt should officially change the day off to "Winter Holiday" rather than saying "Christmas Holiday"
    iPhone in the Washington DC area.
  10. #130  
    Quote Originally Posted by naivete
    But that doesn't show to others that we value religious expression. It only goes to show that we have a little devil among us.
    haha. Im all for private citizens expressing their religion, just not my government. And what if im Rastafarian, will you all support me in my quest for the legalization of marijuana? It is, after all, a necessary part of that religion.
    iPhone in the Washington DC area.
  11. #131  
    Quote Originally Posted by AnteL0pe
    haha. Im all for private citizens expressing their religion, just not my government. And what if im Rastafarian, will you all support me in my quest for the legalization of marijuana? It is, after all, a necessary part of that religion.
    I'll support you.. lets get it moving...
  12. #132  
    Quote Originally Posted by AnteL0pe
    haha. Im all for private citizens expressing their religion, just not my government. And what if im Rastafarian, will you all support me in my quest for the legalization of marijuana? It is, after all, a necessary part of that religion.
    Then move to Jamaica. The legalization of marijuana has nothing to do with freedom of religion, just like the laws in Florida require your drivers license picture to show your entire face, even if you are a conservative Muslim and that violates your religious tenets by removing your veil in front of non-family member males.

    There are some laws that are above religious beliefs.

    If you don't like the laws, ie, they are infringing on your religion, then pack up and move. It was good enough for the founders of this country, it should be good enough for you as well.
    I'm back!
  13. #133  
    Quote Originally Posted by jmill72x
    Then move to Jamaica. The legalization of marijuana has nothing to do with freedom of religion, just like the laws in Florida require your drivers license picture to show your entire face, even if you are a conservative Muslim and that violates your religious tenets by removing your veil in front of non-family member males.

    There are some laws that are above religious beliefs.

    If you don't like the laws, ie, they are infringing on your religion, then pack up and move. It was good enough for the founders of this country, it should be good enough for you as well.
    Ok, just wanted everyone to be aware of this. And BTW, to some people the legalization of marijuana has everything to do with religious freedom. I'm not one of them, and clearly neither are you, but such blanket statements like yours are silly.
    iPhone in the Washington DC area.
  14. #134  
    Quote Originally Posted by cardio
    Actually, the public schools my children attend have volunteers from the class lead in the recital of the pledge. There are children who do not stand for the pledge and do not appear to have any issues with exclusion, one of them is the class leader/president.
    Again, the point is NOT being required to or if they feel coerced to. The point is a gov't institution endorsing deist religious beliefs. AND if I may add, in a manner which completely does not require it (pledging allegiance to one's country).
  15. naivete's Avatar
    Posts
    636 Posts
    Global Posts
    640 Global Posts
    #135  
    Quote Originally Posted by AnteL0pe
    haha. Im all for private citizens expressing their religion, just not my government. And what if im Rastafarian, will you all support me in my quest for the legalization of marijuana? It is, after all, a necessary part of that religion.
    I've added to my post since you replied. Jah is who you worship in Rastafarian, so you are "under god". Legalizing marijuana does not show religious expression because people who smoke pot are not necessarily Rastafarian.

    Quote Originally Posted by AnteL0pe
    Yourre kidding, right?
    No. Religions are enemies of state in a communist regime. We must not imply to others that it is okay to suppress religious expression some time down the road.
  16. #136  
    Quote Originally Posted by naivete
    I've added to my post since you replied. Jah is who you worship in Rastafarian, so you are "under god". Legalizing marijuana does not show religious expression because people who smoke pot are not necessarily Rastafarian.
    So would you support religious marijuana use by Rastafarians?

    No. Religions are enemies of state in a communist regime. We must not imply to others that it is okay to suppress religious expression some time down the road.
    I understand that, religious intolerance isnt the only difference between Communism and the Capitalist Democratic Republic we have here in the US though. It wouldnt even make my "top 5 differences" list, that may just be me though.
    iPhone in the Washington DC area.
  17. naivete's Avatar
    Posts
    636 Posts
    Global Posts
    640 Global Posts
    #137  
    I'm all for your cause if you can get a psychiatrist prescribe you some in Canada or if you moved to Jamaica, like jmill said.
  18. #138  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    No, and it will go before the Supreme court. You really can't argue that it's constitutional and as any person of religion should understand, the gov't should not be in the biz of promoting any type of faith.
    I was being flippant on the precendnt issue, but I do believe, from a due process perspective, that the pledge as it stands is consitutional, unless and until the Supreme Court determines otherwise.

    We are not talking about legislation that was just passed. This is 50 year old stuff.
  19. #139  
    Quote Originally Posted by shopharim
    I was being flippant on the precendnt issue, but I do believe, from a due process perspective, that the pledge as it stands is consitutional, unless and until the Supreme Court determines otherwise.

    We are not talking about legislation that was just passed. This is 50 year old stuff.
    Length of time does not make something constitutional. Need I point out how long separate but equal went on?
  20. #140  
    Quote Originally Posted by cardio
    What about non citizens. Should they be required to pledge allegiance to the flag and to our republic?
    What are non-citizens doing in our public schools? Ah....another can of worms.
    1. HTC Touch Dual Neon 300, Stock Rom
    2. AT&T Tilt (Refurb) with DK.8 Rom (collecting dust)
Page 7 of 29 FirstFirst ... 2345678910111217 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions